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Encryption Security

Stolen Enigma Machine Held For Ransom 119

Posted by CmdrTaco from the you-gotta-be-kidding-me dept.
AaronLane writes: "The BBC has a story on the robbery, and ransom of one of the only three German Enigma encryption machines from World War Two. The people holding the machine say they bought it unknowingly, and want to be compensated before giving it back, or they will destroy it. The Bletchley Park musuem, from which the machine was stolen, is offering 25,000 pounds." [timothy butts in --] Here's a link to the slashdot story posted when the machine was stolen.
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1 of 3 Enigma Machines Stolen and Held for Ransom More

1 of 3 Enigma Machines Stolen and Held for Ransom

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  • The criminal mind and stupidity more than often go together. The in-duh-vidual that lifted the machine is almost certainly the idiot who is trying to extort GBP25K from a charitable organisation that looks after Bletchley Park [bletchleypark.org.uk].

  • Three were stolen, of wich the two first were done by the Brits, and the third by the Yanks.
  • The Spanish also used other Nazi sourced hardware for a long time. Their airforce was flying locally built Mescherschmitt Bf 109s (although with Rolls Royce Merlin engines) until the late 1960s.
  • I'm not either, but what counts is 'intent'. If I have no idea something is stolen, and buy it in good faith for a reasonable price, it's mine.. even if it was stolen. This is how it works in the netherlands, and probably in the entire EU. ofcourse.. if you buy an original enigma, that in itself is enough reason to at least suspect it was stolen... which is enough for the law.

    //rdj
  • If I were the Basque separatists, I'd just stop bombing people. If I were the Taliban, I'd just end my rule and instate a secular government. If I were Microsoft, I'd just divide myself into three separate companies and stop any predatory business practices....

    No emoticon smiley will save you from your abject absurdity.
  • read "the code book" by simon singh for the details of the enigma machine and who contributed to its decipherment. basically, a german spy gave the poles the instruction books on the enigma and they eventually cracked it. later, the germans increased the number of scramblers and wires on the enigma machine and that proved to be too much. before poland was invaded, they gave the documentation to the allies and bletchley park was born. a bloke named alan turing built machines called bombes to decipher the new and improved enigma cipher and unknowingly paved way for today's computer. excellent book.

  • Re:US should pay Germans? (Score:5)

    by irix ( 22687 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @06:28AM (#726622) Journal
    Nothing is ever so clear-cut.

    The intelligence was provided by the Polish (who were breaking some German Army Enigma before the war, and got some of this info, including an Army Enigma, to the British) the French (why had a German spy giving them Enigma codebooks) and the British and Canadians (who captured enigma wheels and codebooks on *several* raids on sinking U-boats and German weather ships). The British (Alan Turing) were the ones who were working on the codebreaking efforts during the critical years of the war.

    It wasn't the Enigma machine itself that was so valuable (they knew how it worked before the war) but instead the wheels (especially when a wheel was added) and also the codebooks that contained the wheel and plugboard settings.

    The Americans provided additional bombes (mechanical computers used to brute-force Enigma settings) to the effort later in the war. The Americans were also busy breaking the Japanese Naval cypher as well (entirely different).

    Everyone contributed - there is lots of national pride to go around. :)

  • In addition, I really must point out to you jolly chaps that this particular Enigma machine was a rather splendid version given to Bletchly Park as a gift from the Germans, after all that unpleasant war business was well and truly over. Tally ho!

  • Re:Only three?? (Score:3)

    by Crixus ( 97721 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @06:30AM (#726624)
    Exactly. Heck, there's 5 or 6 of them at the NSA's crypto museum. I even got to play with one of them. All of then at the crypto museum are in amazing condition, to boot.

    Rich...

  • Why do you want to invade anywhere? Isn't it a bit backwards to try and think up reasons why you shouldn't invade somewhere, rather than why you should?
  • This post wasn't Funny, it's informative! Geez!


    --
    Chief Frog Inspector
  • And as a terrorist, you can 'use' it to decrypt secret easter-egg messages left by the game's designers.

    Or better yet, you feed it a barcode input from a CueCat scanner and it will tell you where to download the DeCSS source MP3 via Napster.

    --

  • Something fishy about this... (Score:3)

    by MousePotato ( 124958 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @07:57AM (#726628) Homepage Journal
    This machine was stolen. A widely publicized fact due to the massive attention the media placed on it. What doesn't make sense to me is this: If you are purchasing an Enigma machine (and this is mysteriously available right after one is stolen from Bletchley) you are not the 'average antique collector' in the first place and should have more wits about you than to make this type of 'mistake'. This type of collector is much smarter than the average bear and I am not buying into thier story, they would know the difference between the various models of the Enigma (2, 3 and 4 wheel). The fact that they are threatening to destroy this tangible piece of history also points to this party not being a real collector either. A real collector would not threaten to do this as true collectors view it as a privelge to be in posession of a part of history for the time that they have it. I think that this party is more than likely the ones who stole the machine. The ransom notes are (imho) obviously from the people who stole the damn thing. They couldn't find someone to purchase thier prize and in an act of desparation are trying to quadruple the reward for returning the machine to its rightful owners via extortion.
    Note to self: IF s/N ratio>=facts(old news + /. $authors)
  • Whoever wrote them has wholefully inadequate spelling and grammar skills, they don't appear to be very bright.

    Poor spelling and grammar skills? They must be a slashdotter!

  • What about this quote from the Thames Valley Police spokesman John Brett:

    "They are wanting recompense for something they bought in goodwill - they want their money back. We are hoping this person will get in touch."

    Goodwill? The British cops sound like they will be grateful for this person(who for all they know is the real thief). So I'd like to know - would they give this person the ransom and congratulate him for his goodwill? This definitely wouldn't happen in America, and I find it hard to believe it would happen in Britain. Here there would be no question - the person would go to jail for a long time if the cops got to him.

    I watch the sea.
    I saw it on TV.

  • Are you the Anne Marie I recently read about on Salon? I saw your username and the possibility that you are who I think you are came to mind.

    If you are not her, I apologize. If you are, don't be concerned. I am only curious.

    Cheers,
    --
  • That's exactly the kind of thing Englishman would say! You burn down a church full of children and expect us to believe your lies!
    --
  • Wasn't the first one stolen by the Polish? Or plans for it or something.

    No they bought it. The german military adapted an existing commercial product. Maybe doing this is a bad idea...

  • stolen property has laws governing its return (Score:3)

    by firewort ( 180062 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @08:06AM (#726634)
    I'm not up on my English law, but in the Colonies across the Atlantic, when you purchase stolen property, irregardless of whether or not you knew it was stolen, you are required to return it and eat what you paid for the property as a loss.

    No compensation, no ransom, just pure honesty.
    Only deal with honest people, and you don't get hurt. Always be honest, and you increase the chances of other people always dealing with honest folks.

    It's like encryption. Only take emails from trusted sources. Encourage your friends and family to go the same. Eventually, everyone uses encryption and you can grow the keys on your chain.

    A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
  • and who cares, I suspect we are gettting to the point where nothing matters so much anymore.

    gonna go and throw myself out the window onto a sharp pointy thing right now indeed.

    Hi Ho

    Ho Hum

    So it goes....

  • You should probably go re-read your naval history. The naval enigma machine that the story in U-571 is based on was, in fact, captured by the RN in 1941. That much is correct. However, in 1944, the USS Guadalcanal battle group captured the U-505, including its code books and naval enigma. The U-505 is currently on display in front of the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Not sure where the U-505's engima wound up, but if I had to guess, it's probably at the NSA museum.

    IIRC, it's right in front of the exit of the Sub, on the left, in the museum.

    Simon

  • Police want the author of the ransom letters to contact Detective Chief Inspector Simon Chesterman, of Milton Keynes CID, on 01908 686000 and quote reference number 86519900, to negotiate the exchange.

    This news just in.. Here is a transcript of an anonymous call just placed into the police on the possible return of the enigma machine

    Inspector Simon Chesterman: Hello?

    Anonymous caller: Hello Inspector Chesterman, I calling about the stolen enigma machine that I have in my possesion and would like to negotiate return of the item.

    Ispector: What item are you calling about now?

    caller: The enigma machine

    Inspector: The enigma machine, let's see here what was that about now?

    caller: Someone stole it from a museum, I bought it in good faith, and now would like to negotiate its safe return.

    Insepctor: Sorry not ringing a bell. Do you have a case reference number?

    Caller: A what?

    Inspector: A case reference number. I can't lookup the case without the number.

    Caller: I'm sorry I don't have it.

    Inspector: Then I'm sorry, can't help ya

    Caller: Look I'm sure that you have the case file sitting right on top of your desk. Or just ask anyone else, I'm sure they will know what I am talking about.

    Inspector: I'm sorry we are extrodinarily busy today so no one is free to ask.

    Caller: It's very simple. This device is a high ticket and newsworthy item. Just take my info. I'm sure that you will get a call from the museum soon asking if anyone has called, and will have my info handy.

    Inspector: Well I would like to accomodate but I can't file your info without the case file, which I can't find without the reference number.

    Caller: Oh bloody hell. {hangs up}

    Inspector: {to himself} If only people would be prepared before they call...

  • you mean the ransom note looks like a Micosoft product key?...hehe

  • Re:The fools! (Score:3)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:38AM (#726639) Homepage Journal
    Except that the DMCA is a US law and the Bletchley Park Museum is in the UK. Can't quite force our way on the Brits, now, can we?

    Which is located in Woolsley Itch Underhamptstead Oldbury Cottenginton Westbloodyhammersmith.


    --
    Chief Frog Inspector
  • Now THAT is a cool sig!
  • Well, maybe they can get them under the RIP bill, if they won't turn over the encryption keys?
  • Yes it is extortion, yes it's illegal and, yes again, if Inspector Knacker gets his hands on them they are in seven shades of trouble for extortion, handling stolen goods and all the rest of it ....

    But.

    They have the machine. They've basically said that they've paid money for it and that if they're going to be out of pocket on the deal then they're willing to have some fun destroying the thing first.

    No-one's said it's not illegal, just that it's the situation.

    What I love though is all this talk of the machine being in the hands of "The Master" - the news sounds more like Doctor Who every day :)

  • What have the Brits done that makes them worth not invading?

    Besides developing their own nuclear arsenal, you mean? That tends to *mostly* deter the US :)

  • I think they were just really, really ticked that the film "U-571" was so terribly bad...
  • You know enough about Enigma to pay out thousands of quid for it but you haven't heard that one's been stolen from BP itself. Get the bastards and stick them in gaol where they belong.

    Unknowingly, indeed!

    TWW

  • The guy in question does'nt seem to have tried to extort money, or threatened to destroy the laptop ... plus the laptop is not exactly a major historical thing ... so no, it's not relevant at all.

    --

  • Here [slashdot.org]'s a link to a slashdot review of the Code Book by Simon Singh, which covers this stuff :-)

    (It's by Jon Katz BTW, so you might not want to read it....)
  • I'm sure it doesn't work like that in the UK. If you buy stolen goods, you're fucked. Of course, there might be some exceptions, but that's the general rule. But, like you say, how many enigma machines are floating around the world market?

    I think the geezers who are ransoming it are the ones that nicked it, and the coppers know it. If they pay the ransom, I'll be very surprised.


    ---
  • I think you forgot that the Anti-DeCSS people wanted to use it to encrypt the cue::cat so that it can not be used in linux, resulting in the contiued world domination of M$.

    It was also used to stuff ballot boxes in the Yugoslavia elections for the current president, knowing full well that when the roiting is over M$ would own the country.

    In the next few weeks it wil be used to turn the vatican into the largest ever p0rn site & cause natile whats-her-name form the phantom menace to die in a grits accsident.......

    The whole thing is being ploted by ELVIS (Gates is just a pawn here folks)

    (I think thats all the /. theams covered let me know what i left out)
  • Based upon the Magna Carta [nara.gov]? (Coincidentally, I just got a letter with a 5 Magna Carta stamp on it) Looks like it's in there, sort of...


    --
    Chief Frog Inspector
  • Aparently, the captors ran their ransom message through an enigma, then cut up letters from an old Cosmo to make the note.

    See spot. See spot run.

    See Slobodon. See Slobodon run.

    www.ridiculopathy.com [ridiculopathy.com]

  • I have seen at least three Enigmas in the Smithsonian American History Museum. If memory serves there were one or two right next to pieces of the ENIAC, there as another one or two in a display case elsewhere (the case was one of those oddly placed displays along a wall that could easily be looked over, it also had a few other cipher items in it like a code wheel, like the one that came in StarFlight, StarControl I, and the Secret of Monkey Island). I am positive that at least one of the cases had two machines in it.

    If anyone ever gets the chance to visit Washington D.C. and has some spare time, definitely go visit the Information Age section of the American History Museum. They show how World War II brought us the information age, not the nuclear age. They go from Morse code, early mechanical computing machines, early T.V, they have a old cross bar switch, Enigma, pieces of the ENIAC, pieces of the UNIVAC, the original apple computer in its wood burned box, and some early TI and Zilog microprocessors. A lot of history in a small space.

  • I'm fairly sure you are right about being allowed to keep the goods if you truly buy stolen without realising. Here in the UK I have certainly heard of cases where people have their motorcycle stolen, and like a year later the police find it when they pull someone over for a traffic crime, but the new owner gets to keep it. But then this guy just couldn't possibly fail to have known that there was a stolen Enigma machine about at the time, because it was on the national TV news (if he is from the UK too, which seems likely) for several days after the theft, which was only what, three months ago?

  • Re:The number of Enigma Machines.. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As said before, there are many Army Enigma arounds, however Naval and SS Enimga's are very rare. The Enimga stolen from bletchley was one used by the SS inner circle, i.e. used to communicate with hitler.
  • wholefully inadequate spelling and grammar skills

    it must be a yank then

  • Can't quite force our way on the Brits, now, can we?

    Nope. Only the EU is allowed to do that. ;-)

    Steven E. Ehrbar
  • didn't try to give a clue about themselves with a riddle.......

    ----

  • I envision it like this, a unique case number generated by combining the IP and time.

    Inspector Simon Chesterman: Hello?

    Anonymous caller: Hello Inspector Chesterman, I calling about the stolen enigma machine that I have in my possesion and would like to negotiate return of the item.

    Ispector: What item are you calling about now?

    caller: The enigma machine

    Inspector: The enigma machine, let's see here what was that about now?

    caller: Someone stole it from a museum, I bought it in good faith, and now would like to negotiate its safe return.

    Insepctor: Sorry not ringing a bell. Do you have a case reference number?

    Caller: A what?

    Inspector: A case reference number. I can't lookup the case without the number.

    Caller: I'm sorry I don't have it.

    Inspector: Go to our website, look it up and call back.

    Caller: okay. {caller dials in to his ISP, and goes to the website }

    ... The rest is history. :)

  • That's easy (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:18AM (#726659)
    To whom should we make the check payable. Thank you. Hello, Scotland Yard? I need a job on . . . that's right, no prisoners. Jolly good. Bye now.

    ~~~
  • its just the "nice'n'nasty" routine the cops use a lot, they *seem* all nice then once they got yer its a bloody good kicking you'll get in the cells and then you get sent down to do some hard bird. i bet they plant some class A drugs on 'em too

  • The fools! (Score:5)

    by mwalker ( 66677 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:19AM (#726661) Homepage
    The fools! Instead of stealing the Enigma machine, they could instead sue Bletchley Park for bypassing the Enigma machine's access protection device! By suing under the DMCA, they could bankrupt Bletchley Park and seize all their assets, including the Enigma machine!

    Silly robbers. Don't they understand the way to commit crimes these days is to use the law?
  • Play Firearms Half-Life! http://firearmsmod.com - D-Ranged

  • i can imagine the ransom note... (Score:5)

    by hamburger lady ( 218108 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:22AM (#726663)
    CYGQ RTTY FAPRRG QYIDH GBNV XCM SKAF LPQFRPLS!! or the machine gets it...

    ---

  • A few links if you want to know more about Enigma (Score:4)

    by Jish ( 80046 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:22AM (#726664)
    A good page on the history [umbc.edu] of breaking the Enigma code.

    A short description [trincoll.edu] of how the machine worked.

    An Enigma simulation [demon.co.uk] and some good links.

    Some cool stuff!

    ----
    Josh

  • Hmmm .. sad .. but I actually have seen that enigma machine (when it was on display in the Royal Armory in London) .. now .. if only I could get that person to 'aquire' me the Tiger III they have on display there .. then I could have one of THOSE :) Or maybe the V2 .. that should be easy to smuggle out under an overcoat.
  • for a Janet Reno-esque invade and reclaim project... kinda like that Southpark espisode - "Just give us the Enigma!"


    --
  • The yanks stole it from the Germans originally, so really the Germans should get it back, not the Brits :-)
  • Uhm....

    I saw one at the Natl Crypto Museum and one at the MIT flea market last year (wish I had the $7500 he wanted..).

    If an Enigma shows up at MIT, you know there's more than three in the world.

  • Did these exist? As in the Channel 4 documentory (not the current one on general codebreaking, the one from a couple of years ago on the Enigma / Bletchly Park only) only refered to 3 (they even showed one working, so they can't be that rare, unless it was a replica) and 4 rortor enigmas.

    Channel 4: Showing Angel at 6:00pm vicously cut (why can't they show it agian later like the BBC does with Buffy the Vampire slayer? Is a reepeat of Countdown that important?

  • I think they should use the other enigma to write where the money will be deposited, then have them decrypt it. Just for the fun of it.

    But then, when they try to pick up the money and the cops get them we could hear funny stuff like from scooby doo.

    Ex: "I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you darned americans decrypting my code!"
  • I'm sure that there are more than 3 surviving Enigma machines. It is more likely that there are only 3 of this particular model, which IIRC has one more encoding wheel than the standard model. Abount 15 years ago I saw an Enigma in a museum of occupation in Jersey, the Channel Islands. Left over from when the islands were liberated. I can't recall how many wheels this one had.

  • This would make a good Counter-Strike map. (Score:5)

    by AFCArchvile ( 221494 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:22AM (#726672)
    Let's call it cs_enigma. No hostages, but the counter-terrorists have to storm into the blokes' apartment and recover the machine. The enigma itself will probably be an add-on (item_enigma), so when a CT picks it up, he has to evacuate the premises and run for the main street! "Counter-Terrorists Win!"
  • The Enigma was based on patents by Hugo Koch but the machine was named and developed by an engineer named Arthur Scherbius. It was sold to banks and other companies in the 1920s. The British and other allied companies would have obtained examples of these commercial machines.

    The German military adopted a modified version, during the 1930s and 1940s there were several important changes to the design and operation of the machine.

    A trio of brilliant Polish codebreakers, including Rejewski, developed some techniques which enabled them to work out the encryption keys used by some of the German communications networks. Just prior to the invasion of Poland, changes in German operating procedures eventually rendered these techniques ineffective. The Poles did not have the resources to overcome these difficulties.

    Changes included:

    • Ending the practice of encoding the message key twice in the preamble.
    • Better procedures for choosing the indicator settings.
    • Decreasing the validity of basic machine settings from quarterly to monthly to weekly to daily.
    • Adding extra wheels/rotors to the original three. Three from five were selected for insertion.
    • Adding a position for a fourth wheel in the Naval enigma.

    The Enigma was never broken completely once and for all. The British had to start afresh every day in order to work out the day-code and message-codes for each German network.

    Several times, changes in German procedures meant that existing codebreaking techniques no longer worked and new techniques had to be developed.

    --

  • If the original owners give in, they're just gonna end up encouraging more fuckers. I wanna see the SAS in action! Yeah baby...

    *ahem*

    And why ransom it? How fucked up are these people that they know what the enigma machine is but they've never heard of ebay?
    --
    Peace,
    Lord Omlette
    ICQ# 77863057
  • Okay, so the buyer happened to be interested enough in cryptography to buy an Enigma. He bought it through channels that must have been different from the normal channels. He must have been aware that one of these machines was stolen since the word Enigma would stand out to a someone interested in codes in much the same way that Linux would in a typical newspaper article to most /. readers. He still bought it "in good faith"
  • http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/press.htm#theft


    It was an Abwehr unit, serial G-312

    No Plugboard

    Described as "3 rotor" though the picture shows four.


    --

  • I mean, if there are only three known to exist, wouldn't it be a good idea to see if any are missing?

    Also, isn't it illegal to hold stolen property?

    Is there a period after which holding stolen property is legal?

  • I shall be reporting this posting to Jack Straw, the British Home Secretary.

    Under the new RIP (Regulation of Investigatory Powers) Act you are duty bound to disclose the unencrypted version of this message which it is believed is being used to further a criminal activity. You may face up to two years in jail if you fail to hand over the keys...

    :-)
  • If I was them, I'd of just given it back.

    What's with people not doing good deeds anymore, do good deeds only exist in the linux world, or something? :)

  • "The Code Book" by Simon Sighn (spelling?) says that the Enigma Machines were mass produced, so more than 3 had to have survived. These three might have some historical significance or were a special versions (limited production).

  • I need that machine. I'm going to use it to devise a new encryption scheme for the output of my :Cue:Cat :barcode :scanner. ::::.
    :
  • I dunno. See, in the US they could be charged with posession of stolen property, under that should they destroy it, they would be elligble for criminal and civil damages. Not exactly the smartest bunch if their identity is known.

    I'd like to hear what any brits feel their law covers in these terms.


    --
    Chief Frog Inspector
  • Can't quite force our way on the Brits, now, can we?

    What have the Brits done that makes them worth not invading? Nobody else gets such preferential treatment from the US.
  • People do make replica's you know, it's far cheaper than experimenting and using the real thing. -why, oh why, did i take that last drink
  • Unless the Poles had a big force of submarines I never heard about, I think not ;)

    The Poles stole a bunch of Army Enigmas (anyone posting the phony plural Enigmae is gonna get a few words from me), and cracked them before anyone else did, but the big prize was the submarine Enigma with the three wheels.

  • Not only that. I remember having read that the spanish Army Museum (Museo del Ejercito) still keeps at least some of them, donated by the germans during Franco's dictatorship and used by the spanish army at least until the 50s (much to the delight of the british intelligence, of course). I also have seen another one at the Imperial War Museum in London.

  • I Don't Think So... (Score:3)

    by Steve B ( 42864 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @06:18AM (#726688)
    The people holding the machine say they bought it unknowingly

    Oh, sure -- why, just the other day I was at a yard sale and saw an Enigma machine, one of the propellers from the plane Admiral Yamamoto was shot down in, and the original V2 plans signed by Wehrer von Braun.
    /.

  • Is it just me or is what this guy is doing not the brightest thing. It would seem to me that pissing off the British intelligence community by threatening to destroy an important piece of their history if they aren't paid would tend to anger them a bit. They tend to have a very long memory. I hope this guy isn't fooling himself that he can hide from them either. They tend to be pretty good at finding people. I would think that he would have been better off helping them catch the person that stole it. I would think that if he cooperated a little bit they would be much more willing to reimburse him.

  • No, the SAS blow other people's buildings up. The building that got hit by an antitank missile was MI6 HQ. Apparently the thing broke a window, no more. Tough little place.
  • This is a job for 007! Now that Milosevic is out of the way, what else could Bond do?

    R could come up with all kinds of devlishly clever gadgets and weapons, including a £200,000 BMW (which Bond would wreck in the first 10 minutes). Bond could destroy streets, buildings, parked cars, and maybe do a crop circle or two, all with lots of shooting and huge orange fireballs. That'd show those mangy bastards that they can't extort Bletchly Park Museum out of £25,000!


    --
    Chief Frog Inspector
  • I'm sure doubleclick had some part in it, I think I saw it in an Anime film, recorded on my Tivo.

  • But Please do not believe everything you see at the movies!

    Don't you think you're expecting a bit much? We're talking about Americans after all. This is the nation where a significant percentage have difficulty finding their own country on a globe...

    D.
    ..is for Dumb Yanks.

  • There is a four wheel naval enigma included in the U-505 exhibit at the Chicago Museum of Science and Technology.

  • GNUnigma (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Who needs the machine anymore? Now that Richard Stallman has released GNUnigma : The Free Software WWII German Encryption Machine.

    (This was originally named YAFSWW2GEM, but cybersquatters had already registered that name with all the available TLDs.)

    Anonymous Kev

  • Yes, there are no charity's doing good deeds anywhere in the world except for the Saintly VALinux and Sister Red Hat.

    Engage brain before fingers.
  • These were the foil coated, holographic ones.
    Double rares, 1 in 100000 packs
  • The NSA also has museum that contains several Enigmas, but I'm not sure if they have a four wheel model.
  • And so, uh, what is Counter-Strike?
  • Would you mind I came over to the US and burnt the original copy of the declaration of independence or the bill of rights?

    Yes, I'd mind, but I wouldn't advocate spending a fortune to stop you.

  • Greenoch strikes again!
  • Good links BTW, and I did read most of the information contained at their locations.

    But something struck me, as I've been reading quite a bit of information about early computing and code breaking concerning the enigma. The only thing they ever mention is that it was "German Built".

    Which German built it?

    How many other early computing concepts have simply been atrributed to anonymous "Germans"? I know a bit about Zuse, but were there others?

    Are there no records of this?

    I ask only in the interests of computing history, though I guess I run the risk of my intentions being misinterpreted.


    -- kwashiorkor --
    Leaps in Logic
    should not be confused with

  • errr ... good joke, but I'd hate anyone to think that it was actually the Yanks who stole the Enigman machine just because of that film. It was the Brits.
  • The people holding the machine say they bought it unknowingly

    Oh, you mean they didn't know it was stolen, not that they didn't know they'd handed over some cash.

    There goes my get-rich-quick scheme for today.

    On the other hand I do have a warehouse full of these but they are self-assembly.

    Who'll give me $99?

  • > Which is located in Woolsley Itch
    > Underhamptstead Oldbury Cottenginton
    > Westbloodyhammersmith.

    (pronounced "Wooster")

    Chris Mattern
  • I was about to link to that auction as well. Yes, there are a number of Enigmas around, if you are willing to pay the price (the one linked to on ebay above is currently holding at $10,000 American, and hasn't met the reserve price yet).

    However, note that the one you can buy for yourself is a 3 rotor *Army/Air Force* model, not the highly sought-after and very rare Naval versions.
  • That kinda sucks... even though the Allies cracked the code (I think) before the machine was stolen the first time it's kind of a shame that a Brit is willing to destroy one of the artifacts that prob saved his way of life from being wiped off the face of the earth. I mean, if Enigma wouldn't have been cracked (or stolen) the UK would have been pushed closer to the brink of destruction then it was.

    Message to Enigma Owner: Have some respect for what your parents fought for and give the friggin thing back!
  • That kinda sucks... even though the Allies cracked the code (I think) before the machine was stolen the first time it's kind of a shame that a Brit is willing to destroy one of the artifacts that prob saved his way of life from being wiped off the face of the earth.

    Brazilian thieves stole the Jules Rimet cup and melted it to sell the gold. Never were caught, either. Shame on us. Of course, this Enigma thing is a gazillion times more outrageous.

  • Re:Only three?? (Score:3)

    by streetlawyer ( 169828 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:29AM (#726709) Homepage
    I think you may have seen the naval, two-wheel Enigma, which are not exactly common, but not very rare. This one is a U-Boat Enigma, with an extra wheel. It's mainly important because of the historical significance of the actual object, however, not just its rarity.

  • 3 or 4 wheels? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As far as I know, there's two types of Enigma, the 3 wheel Naval enigma, and the 4 wheel one introduced later in the war. Does anyone know if there are any Lorenz machines in a museum? This was the cipher used by the German high command from '43 onwards, much more complex than the regular Enigma. a large part of Colussus II's code-breaking time went into cracking Lorenz, not Engima.
  • Honestly, how much good faith could these people have? "Give us some money or we'll destroy this priceless piece of our nation's history" is not something that would come out of a regular joe who's accidentally bought a hot item.
  • Ok, to start with, the US Navy had nothing to do with the capture of the Enigma machine, sadly it seems you have subscribed to history dictated by Hollywood. The U571 movie was nothing but fiction; the Enigma machine was actually captured by the Royal Navy in 1941 before the US was in the war. So America never actually had their hands on this particular machine, I think there is a edition of the rare version of this Enigma in the NSA museum though.

    You should probably go re-read your naval history. The naval enigma machine that the story in U-571 is based on was, in fact, captured by the RN in 1941. That much is correct. However, in 1944, the USS Guadalcanal battle group captured the U-505, including its code books and naval enigma. The U-505 is currently on display in front of the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Not sure where the U-505's engima wound up, but if I had to guess, it's probably at the NSA museum.

  • Sell it on ebay! (Score:3)

    by b1t r0t ( 216468 ) on Friday October 06, 2000 @05:30AM (#726714)
    Knowing how stupid ebay bidders can be about overbidding on stuff, they should put it up for auction! They could easily get 200,000 pounds for it!

    Too bad there are only three of them or you could imagine a Beowu[CHOKE-GAGGGG]

    NO CARRIER

  • I thought that the common procatice around the world was that if you were sold stolen property, that's your tough luck once it is found out.

    They would have to go after the people who sold it to them for perpetrating a fraud or something. So for them to say that they won't return it without compensation is to hold the wrong people responsible. And it could be considered blackmail.

    never mind jail terms if britain has laws against destruction of national treasures, historical artifacts, etc.

    This sound suspiciously like something the original crooks would do, but that is pure speculation on my part.

    - - - - - - - -
    "Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem."

  • I'm just picking a regionally derisive term for the perpetrators of this crime. They're demanding money for returning a piece of history, and both my grandfathers fought in World War II (one an engineer in the Normandy to Belgium run, the other in the North African campaign), so it's only natural to take this personally.

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