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Non-RIAA Record Companies? 343

Posted by Cliff from the intelligent-protesting dept.
d4 asks: "I've seen a list of RIAA members, but what I'd really like to know is: what record companies are not RIAA members? Many smaller labels are subsidiaries of larger companies, and it's not always easy to tell where affiliations lie. So if I'm going to boycott the RIAA, from whom can I still buy music?" If there are any of you out there preparing a protest for the RIAA's treatment of Napster, then you may want to read this one.
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Non-RIAA Record Companies? More

Non-RIAA Record Companies?

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  • a few people have mentioned a number of non-RIAA labels, including Kill Rock Stars, Alternative Tentacles, and Seeland productions.

    all of these labels, along with about thirty other independents are distributed by an independent distributor, Mordam Records [mordamrecords.com]. their entire catalog is available for mail order delivery through an online interface (no Amazon or CDNOW), and nearly all of their catalog that is available in CD format can also be downloaded as mp3s.

    the money from stuff sold by Mordam goes only to Mordam, the label, and the artist. nobody else. fuck the middlemen of the world.

  • Re:Very good question (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How about Dsicipline? They're UK based, but most of their sales are in the US, so theymaintain a US office. They're also the folks behind bootlegtv.com . Discipline always allows artists to maintain the phonographic copyrightin their own work. Their founder, guitar legend Robert Fripp, has recently spoken out against RIAA. http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com

  • Re:tvt-a quick history - WRONG (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Beavis, what the hell are you talking about? TVT bought WaxTrax in 92. Wax Trax History/Discography page [clark.net] Nothing Records was formed after Reznor's difficulties with TVT, not when he signed. NIN FAQ regarding Nothing Records [smashedupsanity.com] And this is moderated to 5 - Informative?

  • Napster for grannies. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "Taking a cue from music-bootlegging teenagers, sewing enthusiasts have discovered that they too can steal copyrighted material over the Internet.

    ``I'm only sharing (the patterns) with my friends and their friends,'' said Carla Conry, a mother of six who runs PatternPiggiesUnite!, a 350-person underground Net community of stitchers who swap patterns."

    http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/local/docs/ patterns03.htm
  • Cleopatra Records Metropolis Records Tooth and Nail Records Phat Wreck Cords Alternative Tentacles(already mentioned I know) Dill Records I can't remeber the exact names but: Superchunk has their own label that is nonRIAA and so does WolfPac(a local band here in Philly) Thats all I can think of at the moment...

  • double standard? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    when someone comes close to violating the GNU license, all hell breaks out. But when another license (illegally copying music), because it's going to cost users $$$$, it's unfair. so....basically, it's not ok to break licenses, unless it directly affects your pocket....what real, legal justification do users have for pirating music?
  • I don't see Century Media [centurymedia.com] or Nuclear Blast [nuclearblast-usa.com] (two excellent Metal labels) on that list [riaa.com]. Are they perhaps subsidiaries of some larger corporation?

    Alex Bischoff
    ---

  • ever noticed how mcdonalds serves nothing but coke, taco bell only pepsi, KFC only pepsi, and so on? I think this is because the soft drink companies together own about 80% of the fast food joints in the nation.

    Just FYI, McDonalds and Coca-Cola aren't owned by the same company, but do have an agreement about McDonald's exclusively service Coke products. McDonalds also has agreements with Disney for movie tie-ins; those companies aren't related either - likewise Disney with Mattel, for Ariel/Belle/Pocahontas/Esmerelda/etc. etc. Barbie dolls.

    Pepsi-Cola, Frito-Lay, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC were all divisions of PepsiCo, until Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC were spun off into their own seperate company, Tri-Con Global (stock symbol: YUM). Not sure if Tri-Con Global is still wholly owned by PepsiCo or not, and too lazy to check their Web page to find out, but they at least have some ties to Pepsi still. That's why Frito-Lay and the Tri-Con Global restaurants were both doing Star Wars marketing hype, and why most Tri-Con restaurants serve Pepsi beverages, althoguh they're no longer required to (Pepsi is preferred, but if a particular restaurant wants to carry Coke they can).

    Disclaimer: I don't really know anything and I'm making all of this up. ;-)

    --

  • Goto jsut about any punk show, look in the bins all the small distros have. I can guarentee at least 75% of the albums are on labels that run from some guys room. If you want some examples of non RIAA labels...

    ADD records (Unseen, etc)
    Havoc Records (Code 13, etc)
    Rodent Popsicle Records (Toxic Narcotic, etc)
    Unixpunx Records (Resin Bacon)
    Xaos Inc records (Entrophy, Unabombers)
    Profane Existance (Doom, aus rotten, etc)
    Crass records/Southern Records (Crass, etc)
    Tribal War records (Aus rotten, etc)

    There are dozens more, Just ask all the spikey haired freeks you see in the sity. Who knows you may find a fre punk bands you like. Your also likely to find some kindred spirits. The punk and geek philosiphies often overlap.
  • http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/howthegameworks.h tml [arancidamoeba.com]

    Most record companies are controlled by the RIAA major labels, whether they admit it or not. More's the pity.

  • Posted by polar_bear:

    I'm sure that the Dead Kennedys label, I think that it's Alternative Tentacles, but I'm not sure... is a non-RIAA label. Henry Rollins 2.13.61 record label is also non-RIAA though he's actually recording for Dreamworks...
  • You are right about Epitaph, and most Fat bands, however, Propagandhi refused to be distributed by the company that normally distributes Fat's stuff, so they are not in the same boat. They are distributed by Rotz.
  • Doesn't Disney own a large chunk of McDonalds?
  • This seems to be a list of all record labels. Some are very obvious non-indie labels (Universal's A&M, for example, and BMG); some still are independent (to some extent) though distributed by the majors in the US (Mute and 4AD, for example, are both Warner labels in the US (aside: Warner even owns the depechemode.com domain name because it owns the rights for the US, where InterNIC was based), though distributed by others in different territories).
  • In most cases, a major-label artist does not see a cent of their cut of royalties until they have recouped the advance used to pay for producing and promoting the album. That all comes out of the artist's cut (yes, that 50c-$1), and can take several million sales to recoup. The recording company, in contrast, sees its cut from the outset.

    And to add insult to injury, even after the artist has paid off their advance, the company still owns the copyright. It's as if you took out a loan to buy a house, paid it off, and the bank still owned the house.

    Your average streetwalker gets a better deal from her pimp than your average major-label artist gets from their label.

  • Actually (Score:2)

    by acb ( 2797 )
    Virgin is part of EMI, which is merging into AOL/Time Warner. And there is no such entity as PolyGram anymore; they got swallowed up into Universal in early 1999.
  • Universal's teen-rebellion subsidiary Interscope bought TVT some years ago, solely for Nine Inch Nails; as a result, Wax Trax is now part of the largest recording company in the world.
  • i.e., signed to major labels. Radiohead, for example, is on EMI.
  • That's a publishing company; which is a technical term for a holding company that manages the copyright of songs/music (though not of recordings). They're the ones you'd deal with if you wanted to release a cover of a Pink Floyd song.

    Pink Floyd, AFAIK, are on EMI.
  • The industry is multinational, and have subsidiaries everywhere. Most of the well-known music from the UK, Australia, Japan, &c., is owned by the local subsidiaries of the respective majors.

    The majors aren't necessarily American either, despite having headquarters in Los Angeles or New York; EMI's British (though soon to be controlled by AOL/TW), Universal's Canadian (soon to be French), BMG is German and Sony's Japanese.
  • What about leather shoes? Footballs? Couches? Have you spraypainted someone's couch recently?

    How 'bout those biker jacket's your friends wear to the punk shows (or does everyone dress in hemp and listen to Phish these days?) Are you spraypainting them?

    Is it because the fur-bearing animals are CUTER or something? It's not okay to kill cute animals? Or is it somehow of the utmost important to stop killing CUTE animals first, and THEN stop killing cows and pigs and stuff?

    People have been wearing and eating animals for a LONG time. Is this news to you?

    Just curious.
  • This Ask Slashdot may be looking for a very rare beast: a commercial company that is not in it for the money.

    Perhaps there are a few cooperatives or artistic partnerships that have that property, but in general a "label" that seeks out musical talent for marketing has only one driving force, and that's to make money for its private or public shareholders. That cannot fail but make them all "bad" to a lesser or greater degree.

    The only sure way of avoiding the key problem of conflict of interest between label and artist is to stick to labels that are wholly owned by and restricted to a single band.

    Fortunately we're seeing more and more of those, often associated with the band's website and providing both MP3 tracks as publicity and CDs and merchandise for fans to buy. The great thing about this approach is of course that the band gets 100% of all profits, and their artistic direction and all copyrights remain 100% in their own hands.

    The best way of fighting the RIAA and supporting the artists at the same time is to encourage the trend towards band own labels. Provide them with ready package deals at fixed cost (don't take a cut, or you'll become a vile label, inevitably) --- I bet that there are hundreds of thousands of bands that aren't interested in the standard chart fair beloved by studios, yet are ready to take a small leap into the unknown as their own masters.

  • Re:Ani (Score:2)

    by Scola ( 4708 )
    It is not a subsidiary of another company. She is the sole proprieter and owner of Righteous Babe Records, and as far as I know the only artist on the label. Ani DiFranco is a truly _independent_ artist.
  • f you don't like the laws, get them changed; laws are part of the social contract, and you can't obey them selectively. I would suggest reading Locke's Second Treatise for more eloquent discussion about this, as i can hardly do it justice.

    Despite Locke's empty theorizing, the best way to get a law changed is to disobey it. Basically what happens is when enough people break a law for a long enough period of time, the law first becomes unenforced, and secondly repealed. For example, in the last century, most communities had laws governing what was appropriate clothing to wear in public and what was acceptable sexual behavior in private. Today, such laws have mostly been repealed; not generally because of any organized effort to get them changed, but simply because they seem so out of touch with current behavior as to seem silly.
  • Another factor is that a label may be 100% independent, but has to rely on distributors that are owned by the larger RIAA labels. Independent distributors are these days notorious for going out of business, and in their chapter 11 filings, have neither responsibility to return the albums to the group, nor pay any royalties collected so far.

    Many groups and independent labels, have gone broke themselves just because their distributors have gone broke and used chapter 11 protection to avoid paying up.

  • You're exactly right on this. Remember everyone, the major labels are trying to take away the right to second-sale and basically have you lease the music from them.

    Hamish

  • As other people have pointed out, Ani DiFranco's [anidifranco.net] label is independent. Also, if you're into Celtic music, Loreena McKennit's label, Quinlan Road [quinlanroad.com] is independent as well...

    To people who recommend looking for overseas labels, I must note that a lot of foreign music is distributed through RIAA-affiliated labels. For example, Deutsche Grammophon [deutschegrammophon.com], a German classical music label, distributes in the US through Universal Classics [universalclassics.com].

    All that said, I think that boycotting the RIAA because it's trying to shut down a pure piracy operation like Napster is ludicrous... The RIAA deserves a boycott for pushing Britney Spears, 'NSync, and the Backstreet Boys to the top...

  • Nice to see that Cuneiform [cuneiformrecords] wasn't on the list. I tend to get most of my music lately from either Cuneiform or other labels available from Wayside Music (Cuneiform used to be the ``house'' label; much the same as WaxTrax (sp?) was a label started by the record store of the same name in Chicago.) I doubt that labels like ReR [u-net.com] and other foreign labels would be RIAA members.

    BTW, Is this the VAXman from Fermilab? (Just curious.)
    --

  • ``You're wrong. They are on the list. Right after Cucumber Records.''

    Sorry. I don't see either of those on the list of labels that VAXman's link pointed to (which was, BTW, to the RIAA site). What list were you reading, I wonder?
    --

  • Projekt [projekt.com] is one of my favourite labels. Most of their bands tend to be of the etereal/darkwave persusasion, but they're more recently signed bands have a little more mainstream sound. Mira [fsu.edu], an incredible new band, is a classic example of a band whose success is largely due to MP3s. Also worth checking out are Love Spirals Downwards [lovespirals.com] (is moving in the Drum and Bass direction, although their earlier stuff is closer to shoegazer...kinda a 4AD sound) and Black Tape for a Blue Girl [projekt.com] (more traditional ethereal). If you're into that type of music, definitely check them out...even if you're not, they may be worth checking. They're classic examples of bands that would be huge if people actually preferred quality and originality in their music.
  • If you're looking for record labels, my first stop is usually: http://www.arancidamoeba.com/labels/ [arancidamoeba.com]. This is a pretty comprehensive listing of labels with web sites (with searches by genre, etc). This includes indie and non-indie, though... you've got to use your head to tell which is which. If you care about these things, it becomes something of an instinct, even when a major tries to disguise itself as a minor (as they sometimes do). Hint: if the label has an address in New York or LA the odds are it's not indie.

    (I see that http://www.musicisland.com/ claims to be "the home of Independant Music on the Web" but their web site is a mess of pop-up add windows, unreadable fonts, and critical links that are busted.)

    I took a look at the Napster "Buycott" (http://www.napster.com/buycott.html [napster.com]) and it looks okay, though they've only got about fifty or so artists (not labels) in the list. In any case, I would definitely recommend DJ Spooky: he's an incredibly prolific, really creative ambient sample artist.

    As a place to find cool new stuff, I'd recommend: http://www.aquariusrecordsSF.com/ [aquariusrecordssf.com]. This is a record store that does mail orders. They essentially refuse to stock anything they don't really love. Subscribe to their email newsletter: it's full of really chatty, detailed reviews of nearly every good new release in the last month.

  • Anyone know if Century Media or Nuclear Blast are in bed with RIAA? I don't see 'em on the list, but I wonder if they're owned by someone who is. How would I find out?


    ---
  • Those who did seemed to assume that copyright didnt' apply at all, and stole Napsters logo just to make a profit.

    Napster's logo is trademarked, not copyrighted. It's a whole different set of legislation. If somebody uses the Napster logo to make money, they are forced to throw their lawyers at it, lest trademark dilution take place and angry shareholders chase Hank Barry around armed with threatening-looking staplers and ballpoint pens.

  • Indie labels are great, and they get alot of top notch bands out in the open.

    The problem is that distribution is much harder. Today, with internet commerce getting product to the end sale is becoming less of an issue, but still the vast majority of record sales is at places like Wal-Mart, Blockbuster Music, and other national chains.

    Bad Religion's former-and-future-member Greg Gurewitz founded Epitaph [epitaph.com], a highly successful alternative label. But even though Epitaph's sales took off as they picked up great bands, they couldn't meet Bad Religion's needs for publicity and distribution. Bad Religion just couldn't get into the big mass-purchasing chains.

    Bad Religion joined Sony, and then Atlantic, where they've been for awhile now.

    The good news for Bad Religion is that now their CDs are avaliable in many more shops across the country. However avaliability is mixed, and some Sony recordings are hard to come by. By contrast about every thing they released under Epitaph is still avaliable, save singles and Into The Unknown material, which they don't want out anyway.

  • I smell a troll here, but I'll bite anyway.

    The Coke reps call up the McDonalds honchos and say "We'll sell you Coke super cheap if you promise us that we'll be your only suplier of soft drinks." It's good for McDonalds because they get the syrup cheaper and it's good for Coke because they have assured future sales and still make a profit.
    McDonalds is free to tell Coke to screw off and fill their stores with RC and Tab. They just have to answer to the customers.
    I've seen tons of smaller restaurants that serve both Coke and Pepsi because they aren't big enough to warrant exclusive deals.
    Don't go around screaming "Monopoly" at the sky if you don't know what it means.

    -B
  • I'll paste this right from philipmorris.com:

    The Philip Morris family of companies is the largest and most profitable producer and marketer of consumer packaged goods in the world. With total 1999 operating revenues of over $78 billion, our diverse lines of business include some of the world's most successful companies:

    Kraft Foods North America and Kraft Foods International, which together form the world's second-largest food company.

    Philip Morris U.S.A. (America's leading cigarette maker) and Philip Morris International, makers of the world's best-selling cigarette brand.

    Miller Brewing Company, America's second-largest brewer.

    Philip Morris Capital Corporation, second largest industrial affiliate leasing company in the U.S.A.

    -end paste-

    Most people don't go a week without giving Philip Morris money.

    -B
  • Yawn! Go away RIAA troll.

    You want us to believe that the best way to hurt the RIAA is to give them even more money... Sure, whatever.

    A boycott will work great, they'll lose some money, panic and blame everyone, maybe win a few lawsuits, and they'll keep losing money. And either they'll wise up till people no-longer want to boycott them or they'll go the way of the dinosaur.

    Shelf space isn't limited anymore, neither is vinyl. Promotion and studio space are all that're needed and those are getting cheaper every day. It's getting a lot easier to produce a studio-quality CD master these days. The RIAA is no longer the only way, and soon they won't even be a way.

    Don't give them any money.

    If you want to buycott something, rush out and buy from the indies. That way they'll still lose, but market research will show that CD sales in general are up.

    Not that it'll matter, they'll lie. They buy judges and politicians, what's to stop them from blatantly lying? At most they say "Ack, that one PR guy was wrong, we'll fire him." You can't expect truth from an organization like that, they're fighting for their life. They can fake up all the market research they want to show anything they want.

  • They are on the Dischord Records, a big independent non-RIAA label from Washington DC. Fugazi's their best-known act (over a million recordings sold without major-label assistance!), but they've put out plenty of other acts, including they some classic hardcore punk (esp. Minor Threat & the Flex Your Head compilation).

    If you like alterna-rock & punk rock, try Dischord's Web home [southern.com]. You might be surprised....


    --
    "Deep in the ocean are treasures beyond compare,
  • You're unlikely to find a lot of well-known artists who are not recording under an RIAA label by some degree of subsidiary separation.

    However, there are a lot of very good indie artists out there, and many of them publish and sell their own CDs directly. If you're not into the RIAA, seek out independent artists. You get the double benefit of sticking it to the RIAA and discovering some great unheard talent. CDs from these bands are generally less expensive than major label CDs (many under $10US) and a lot of their sites offer free MP3 downloads to try before you buy.

    You can find indie artists in places like MP3.com by entering the name of a band you know and like in the search box and looking for "Similar Artists". You'll likely end up sifting through a lot of misses before you find a hit, but I think it's worth it. And if you find an artist you like, buy the CD! Show the RIAA that you are in fact willing to spend money for a product you enjoy, but you are unwilling to be told how you're allowed to enjoy it. Promote indie artists on your website. Demonstrate to the RIAA that you have alternatives and are more than willing and able to take advantage of them.

    Chuck.

  • No, we do not want to encurage the system of "labels" anyway.

    First, we need a way to rate artists based on independence from the RIAA, i.e. a web site where you enter the artists name to find out how RIAA free they are. Artists could place little jpgs on their web page's indentifing their level of freedom.

    Second, we need a way to find good artist. This can only really be done by mp3 voting sites, ala Kuro5hin for mp3, and/or recomendations from respected DJs. I'd like to see an internet radio program built on IRC which just sent out the URLs of recomended mp3s. Your mp3 player would collect the URLs that the people you like sent out and help you DL the files.
  • May I humbly suggest Sutur [cdbaby.com] as a band to check out there. They are put out by Elemental Media [elementalmedia.net], who have a bunch of other no-big-label bands to choose from.
    And of course, you could always support humble little me [mp3.com].

    The Divine Creatrix in a Mortal Shell that stays Crunchy in Milk
  • small sidenote on Sony: VPRO, a dutch radio and television organisation, has decided to no longer play any records from sony. Sony objected to their webcasts, so they're boycotting sony. I would point you to www.vpro.nl [www.vpro.nl] but it's in dutch. don't count on Babelfish either...

    //rdj
  • right to make money? can you tell me in what law that right is laid out? people have a right to make a living and have a job. corporations do NOT have a right to make money. they just have a right to exist. If there was such a thing as a right to making money, then bankruptcies would infringe on those rights. I definately don't like the price of their products, so I copy them. This is not stealing, this is civil disobedience. Just like squatting isn't stealing (real squatting, not domainsquatting. that's a different story that I'm not going into right now)

    //rdj
  • BTW, I didn't see Luaka Bop (David Byrne's label?) listed. He's big enough that you'd think he'd be RIAA.

    Go heads!
  • I'm all for their cheap comps and like a lot of the music, but don't buy from Fat to stick it to the riaa. check the list; they're on it!
  • I imagine that "Top Five Records" from High Fidelity (based on the book by Nick Hornsby) would by non-RIAA...
    (-;
  • Perhaps you should get your facts straight. PepsiCo spun off their restaurant business in 1997, which became TRICON Global Restaurants, Inc. PepsiCo holds a very considerable amount of stock in TRICON. Here's a PepsiCo press release [pepsico.com] released when the spin-off was approved.
  • I'm noticing a lot of punk rock recommendations in the comments. Punk rock is fine and dandy, and very non-RIAA, but if you want to some other excellent music, Matador and Warp are good labels to try.

    Matador [recs.com] has a ton of cool bands, like boards of canada, belle and sebastian, cat power, pizzicato 5 etc. I am reasonably sure they are non-RIAA -- I didn't find any evidence of it on their website, and they weren't on that RIAA members list.

    Warp [warp-net.com] is an awesome "intelligent" electronica label. They've got cool stuff like autechre, aphex twin, two lone swordsman (also on matador). They are based in Germany, so there is no way they are RIAA. I don't think they belong to the European equivalent either, though I could be wrong.

    Be careful though! Some of the albums are co-branded with major labels, for better distribution purposes I suppose. Aphex Twin for example, their later albums also have a little Elektra records stamp on them.
  • The majority of the non-major labels have distribution deals with the majors, otherwise they have to deal individually with each individual retailer, which I'm sure would be hell.

    Labels like Grand Royal (Beastie Boys), which is distributed by Capitol records, Fat Wreck Chords, which is distributed by Epitaph.....which was bought by Sony (who is an RIAA member, but not part of the lawsuit apparently), still give over a large chunk of change to the RIAA afilliated labels in order to have their records in stores.

    Don't get me wrong, there are indie labels out there that are entirely indie......but they are few and far between.

  • I second the motion of buying from CDBaby. I have ordered CDs from there in the past. Coincidentally, I just ordered some more(before reading /.). They are prompt, well priced, and have *excellent* customer service. I have exchanged several e-mails with them, asking them when a certain CD will be back in stock or something, and they have always replied promptly and politely.
  • Check out byofl.org [byofl.org]. That's Book Your Own Fscking Life, a site that originally started as a book/zine affiliated with (previously mentioned) MaximumRockNRoll. Search by labels (and by state if you'd like) and find all sorts of truly indie organizations - bands, venues, distributors, book stores, zines, and yes, labels.
    -----

  • Well, Simple Machines doesn't really exist as a record label anymore. But, killing two birds with one stone, you can find them on the web at: The Machine at Insound

    Your kung-fu is strong indeed.

    -carl
  • in order for the boycott to be economically effective you have to do the same for both their subsidiaries and their parent company.

    That only follows if you are attempting to drive the target completely out of business. This is the bluntest and most difficult of boycotts. If you (and a large number of others) can boycott a single subsidiary, though, and make sure the parent knows why, they have just as much pressure to change their ways. More, perhaps, because a narrowly targeted boycott makes you seem more willing to compromise reasonably.

    Really, a subsidiary should follow the same rules as any other company. If KFC stops making money due to boycotts, PepsiCo has no reason to keep pumping money into its upkeep. It will shut down. It's true that if you start going to Pizza Hut instead, you're still giving money to PepsiCo -- but if only KFC was engaging in objecionable activities, you've still achieved your goal!

    You simply need to find out what you really object to and who, as specifically as possible, is responsible. In this case it's difficult, since presumably small companies that are bought up adopt the restrictive and unjust policies of the RIAA. Thus, a total boycott is indicated.

    - Michael Cohn
  • or at least they're on the RIAA member list. thought you were indie, didn't you :)

  • So what is next. Can Chevrolet be sued because: "A great many cars are transporting drugs across the border -- Their big trunks and fast engines are just too powerful, and can carry too much. They must be stopped".

    Nope. A truck is a product, and Chevrolet relinquishes all control when somebody buys it. They don't have any control or even visibility of what it's used for. Napster is a service, and requires constant maintenance by the owners to facilitate the illegal piracy which takes place on the service.

    If you look at any contributory copyright infringement court case, they readily distinguish between products and services: the diamond Rio and VCR's were legal because they were products, but things like radio was declared as having to pay royalities, because they are services.

    The "Napster is just a tool" argument is completely irrelevant to this case because it is not a tool - it is a service. The judge specifically raised this issue in the injunction. There has never been a case where a service which was deemed to be contributing to copyright infringement was allowed to continue as is.

    I dont think that you need a social theory background to understand what is happening here. There is an OVERWHELIMG demand for a way to trade music online; Something that, by itself, is not illegal. The RIAA is being so shortsighted and foolish in this matter by targeting the medium, not the demand. THAT is why people are so upset. Not becuase we want our WAREZ d00dZ!

    Many record companies ARE putting music online and charging for it. It didn't get much press, but last week Capitol put up Dark Side on the Moon for sale online, the first mainstream major label album to have done so. You have to give them time so they can figure it how to do it securely and profitably. They are not going to put everything up insecure, and without a business plan, because doing so would be commercial suicide. Likewise it would be foolish for themselves to not defend themselves against a blatantly illegal service such as Napster, so you may questions their exact tactics in doing so.

  • Deutsche Grammophon is most definitely NOT a non-RIAA label. They are a big part of Polygram which is THE BIGGEST record company in the world. However, they used to be one of the great labels, before they decided classical music wasn't profitable any more, and essentially stopped making it. I will continue to buy their records, as I am clueful enough to value the music, not the business practice which went into making it.

    All that said, I think that boycotting the RIAA because it's trying to shut down a pure piracy operation like Napster is ludicrous... The RIAA deserves a boycott for pushing Britney Spears, 'NSync, and the Backstreet Boys to the top...

    What is the bigger crime - standing up for your property rights, or giving the people what they want? Teen pop music is fine, but a scapegoat: the music is not successful because companies are trying to market it, but because the educational system has failed us. Students in school are no longer taught about Mahler, Shostakovich, or Brucker, but are told relativistically that the today's trobbing, primitive, tribal rock music is as valid as those "dead white guys". Don't like today's music? You who asked for tax cuts to the educational system got what you paid for.

  • Paul Ramsey (Formerly Jah Paul Jones of Dread Zeppelin) runs Bird Cage Records [birdcagerecords.com]. Some of thier stuff gets distributed through IRS (Which _is_ a member of the RIAA) but mostly not. Also check out Del-Fi [del-fi.com] for that grooving surf sound.

    There are _alot_ of non RIAA labels, it's just a matter of finding them.
  • ... Matador, Estrus, Sub-Pop, Alternative Tentacles, SST, Dischord, Daemon... none of these is on that list, although I have no idea of their corporate owners if any.

  • www.xlrecordings.com [xlrecordings.com] is not a member of the RIAA and they are not a subsidary of any big company. They are primarily a dance label which grew from a record shop, but they hit the big time with Liam Howlett and the Prodigy boys. They originally licensed tracks from artists (hence the bunch of "XL Recordings the nth Chapter" albums) but now they work a bit of everyway. The history [xlrecordings.com] on their website gives a good flavour of where they came from. I know I've bought plenty of their albums in the past, so can anyone find an RIAA tie with them? Or even a reason why they should be ignored?

  • As has been mentioned MANY times, there are many independant labels out there. We run a small recording studio in our basement, Barkin' Beaver Records [hardheads.org]. Click on the link to Gnawed Trees and there's some absolutely free MP3's there. Share 'em with your friends. There's also Discipline Global Mobile [discipline...mobile.com], a new label from (primarily) Robert Fripp of King Crimson (if anyone out there is old enough to remember...:)

    What's tricky is that we understand it's NOT the artists, but the gawd-awful industry they're in. It's tough for the band to make any money when they immediately go into debt to the label (with the RIAA way of doing business) before they even have anything recorded. Then, it's like the old "company towns" where you owe them for everything and they would take it out of your paycheck. The artists are starting to speak on this issue now and Robert Fripp is a very articulate and bright individual with some very sound opinions on the subject.

    This has been a very touchy subject for us, and we hope that some will begin to listen to reason instead of being the normal spoiled rotten web-babies crying about not getting free stuff. I am all for freedom and accessability, but I'm also pro-eating and pro-income. As some artists create and post music for free, some will charge for the music because they HAVE TO EAT!!! The music IS their day job. Just as you code for pay (if that's your job), and I network for pay, so these guys create music for pay. I just ask that we all keep that in mind.

  • "Any person or people who acquire a beneficial ownership of more than 5% of a class of equity securities must file a Schedule 13D with the SEC" There is no 13D filed for Tricom (YUM) for Pepsi. Most of the ownership appears to be Mutual and 401K funds, persons on the board of directors, and high level management. Since the stock has tanked since 1997 it's not suprising Pepsi isn't a majority holder anymore.
  • Pepsi sold their holdings in KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut years ago. Get the facts straight.
  • Ani Difranco [anidifranco.net] owns her label, Righteous Babe Records. I think there may be one or two other artists on it, but i can't say for sure. I looked through the list of RIAA members, and she's not on it.

    Maybe the people who read /. wouldn't like her interesting mixture of folk music (with some punk mixed in), but the themes of freedom and anti-corporatism might touch a nerve (or Katz' nerve at least). I can say that i'm more than a fan tho (with two concerts under my belt).

    She's just one example, but she's not completely unknown. Also, i don't know her stance on MP3 and Napster, but you can definitely buy her music during your boycott.

    Lastly, let me shout a warning to those misogynists hanging around...

    EOT
  • Well, it's probably easier to list the RIAA members, since there's so many of them. You can find a list right here [riaa.com].

    But if you're looking for a great non-RIAA label, I'd check out Sub Pop Records [subpop.com], based out of Seattle. They're a widely-recognized non-RIAA label (they're very big on the college radio circuit) who was responsible for the popularity of Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Mudhoney. Their music is worth a listen if you love grunge rock, I'd recommend the Sub Pop 200 compilation for starters.

    --
  • Hey. This is Matt. I'm one of the core SETI@home guys, but I'm really a musician, and must interject about one of my slowly-growing side projects called clamazon.com. It's an on-line CD store, and stocked with rare, collectible, and wholly non-RIAA affiliated bands. Unlike most CD on-line shops, we actually have the items in stock and at reasonable prices.

    It's a new site - a work in progress, but we got the whole credit-card ordering thing going, over 1000 titles, blah blah blah. Enjoy.

    - Matt Lebofsky - matt@clamazon.com

  • You're right, most underground music and punkrock is non-RIAA, but you're giving the wrong examples. Epitaph was sold to Sony a long, long time ago, and as for Fat Wreck, well, they're RIAA-afilliated (sp?).

    You have to be very careful with this kind of thing - a lot of so-called independents are really just subsidiaries of major labels such as Sony or Warner. Roadrunner a nice, independent metal outlet? Forget it, they're a sub of, I think, Sony. Creation? Nope, sold to EMI. Sub pop? Warner. Mo'Wax? EMI. Etc. Etc.

    If you want to avoid RIAA and the majors, you'll have to dig very, very deep to find your music, and the music you'll find may actually not be very much to your liking. Most underground music is underground for a very good reason: it only appeals to a very small group of people. If you're into Zimbabwean goth played on bagpipes or Turkmeni grindcore, you could live a very happy, fulfilled life having nothing to do with the RIAA, but if your taste is slightly more mainstream, you'll have somewhat of a problem.

    Don't forget, the majors didn't become major for no reason: they gave ninetynine percent of the people what they wanted to hear. If it turned out that, say, twenty percent of the people all of a sudden wanted to hear something else (Nirvana), they simply went out to buy that something else and mass-market that. Remember grunge? Remember skate-punk? Or, in the UK, the Asian craze? If fifteen percent of American teenagers decides tomorrow that from now on it's extremely cool to be into avantgarde electronica, you can be sure Warner will buy up everyone on the A-musik roster without even thinking about it.

    That'll be the day...
    This is not a .sig
  • One of my favourite artists is also a real Canadian success story - she faced down the major labels, founded her own company, manages, produces and markets her own music. The artist is Loreena McKennitt and her company is Quinlan Road [quinlanroad.com]. I heartily commend her music anyone who likes Celtic-style music.
    How do I know she's independent? I quote from her company information page [quinlanroad.com]

    Quinlan Road is a fully independent record label and management office founded in 1985. It is run and wholly owned by its only artist, Loreena McKennitt. Quinlan Road has two offices, located in Stratford, Ontario, Canada and in London, England.
    Loreena McKennitt's Quinlan Road recordings are distributed by a number of different distributors, large and small, around the world. However, we are committed to working as directly as possible with small, independent retailers - including non-traditional, alternative outlets - to ensure access to our recordings. If you are a record retailer and have any difficulty in obtaining Quinlan Road titles, or if you have any questions about our distribution arrangements in your area, please contact us directly and we will do our best to provide prompt assistance.
    Matt
  • DivaNation records is not affiliated with the RIAA. www.divanation.com [divanation.com] To be absolutely sure, I just called the founder.

    Plus, I really like their music.

  • He didn't post a lie. He said "I think...". Are you saying he doesn't think that? Because I think he does think it, and you are the closest one to a liar in this discussion.

  • Remember, Sony Records is a division of Sony Corporation. Universal Music is a division of Seagrams Distillery. etc.

    If you want to completely make the boycott effective, buy a Panasonic DVD player, not a Sony. Buy Gilbey's rum, not Seagram's gin.

    Better still, don't bother buying any RIAA CDs anymore. Roll your own. Send royalty checks to the agents of the artists; the agents probably don't like the RIAA either. They can't stop us.

    The information technology revolution is happening, and the redcoats will be beaten.

  • Alternative Tentacles [alternativetentacles.com] was formed by Jello Biafra when he was in the Dead Kennedys, but the band and the label are not one and the same. They are non-RIAA though. Anyway, the other Dead Kennedys members have sort of drifted away from alternative tentacles after jello and them got into an argument over having Holiday in Cambodia being in a Levi's commercial... you can read about it at:
    http://www.alternativetenta cles.com/page.gsp?id=DKvsATR [alternativetentacles.com]

  • Neither Kill Rock Stars [killrockstars.com] nor Parasol [parasol.com] appear to be on the list.

  • Hear hear! Mass culture is disgusting. Everyone should go read Adorno & Horkheimer's "Dialectic of Enlightenment." Still a difficult enough philosophical treatise that it *isn't* mass culture--despite the large number of Village Voice types who pretend to have read it in order to sound hip.

    A&H contend--among other things--that the mass culture preponderance creates a situation in which even our free time, when we are ostensibly not working, is WORK. Going to the movies, buying N*Sync CDs, all of that is just another form of WORK. Frankly I agree. All mass culture is part of a brutal totality that strips away our freedom to think in certain ways, as does the concept of progress espoused by the Enlightenment circa Kant. Adorno speculates a possible escape from this system, through modern art and music, although frankly I'm doubtful. Hallucinogens are probably a better bet (I wouldn't know actually).

    End the mental hegemony of mass culture! Crush the RIAA!! Think!! Escape!!
  • Since virtually all labels have spoken out against Napster as though it is the most evil thing ever, I think all labels should be boycotted. Even the Non-RIAA members artificially increase the price of CD's. All of them hold on to an almost brutal level of control over their music, and most of them stop producing music to make other bands more succesful.

    I have heard of virtually no label that says "Yes, take our music we appreciate the advertising" apart from a few isolated bands. Those who did seemed to assume that copyright didnt' apply at all, and stole Napsters logo just to make a profit. All labels are evil so boycott the lot
  • I said it before, I'll say it again:

    The boycott is a HORRIBLE, STUPID idea.

    RIAA won't know WHY you chose to stop buying their CDs, all they know is that they have new figures showing a drastic drop off in sales after the advent of mp3 sharing technology. This will just be ammunition in their arguments that technologies like Napster are causing them damages.

    Every CD you decide not to buy, thanks to the existence of Napster (either because you use it to steal or merely want to protest RIAA) drives another nail in Napster's coffin.

    The Buy-cott however, is a great idea. This way market research shows that the record labels who are encouraging Napster are showing record (no pun intended) sales, and maybe give RIAA something to think about.

    Don't go to war with organizations bigger than you. You'll lose. Convince them that what you want is also in their best interests.
  • I don't see: Cleopatra records, waxtrax! (but I think they are owned by TVT/Nothing now and that is one the list), Invisible records (Martin Atkins record label, some good bands like Pigface, RitalinRX (Nivek Ogres new band), and even Sheep On Drugs), or Netwerk (which is another good label)..

    Perhaps that will help out?

  • I love the net. Independent labels are EASY to find if you know where to look.. college record stores area sure bet, as well as any record outlet that sells non-mainstream music. But just in case, I found a few websites that have a generous list of non-RIAA record labels.

    http://bandradio.com/dir/Record_Companies/Indepe ndent_Labels/

    http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/external/T.Wicks/ill/

    http://www.novia.net/~landphil/indies.html -- this is a list of stores in the US and canada that sell indie music

    Go scour the net.. there is tons of this stuff. Support your indie bands.. They tend to be hostile to the RIAA and don't charge as much :)

  • The major difference being that McDonalds is a franchise, not a chain...a large group boycotting the local McDonalds will kill the bottom line for the franchise owner, prompting local action. It was this type of pressure from the franchise holders that led to the change from styrofoam containers to the current cardboard ones. You'll NEVER have enough resources to combat the conglomerates, but the little guy at the bottom is easy prey. (You'll probably depress the local micro-economy in the process...but that's not the issue is it?)

  • Companies owning companies (Score:3)

    by Uruk ( 4907 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:50AM (#882640)
    this has always been a huge problem.

    I'm a vegetarian, and I have a lot of vegan friends who wish to boycott companies who are particularly horrible to the environment and to animals and so on. So not suprisingly, many of them boycott McDonalds. But you can't really boycott just McDonalds, in order for the boycott to be economically effective you have to do the same for both their subsidiaries and their parent company.

    ever noticed how mcdonalds serves nothing but coke, taco bell only pepsi, KFC only pepsi, and so on? I think this is because the soft drink companies together own about 80% of the fast food joints in the nation. This makes it very hard to boycott one company, because regardless of how hard you try, unless you know about all of the corporate incest that goes on constantly, you can't tell who you're REALLY buying from.

    I think it's probably the same with record companies. Geffen owns a lot of smaller labels, as does sony. Things like subpop and other labels have been bought long ago AFAIK, and the only real places that haven't been gobbled up are your tiny local labels that only have a dozen artists on them. And rest assured, if they get another dozen high-profile artists, they'll be gobbled too.

  • Re:boycott not reasonable (Score:3)

    by doom ( 14564 ) <doom@kzsu.stanford.edu> on Thursday August 03, 2000 @01:04PM (#882641) Homepage Journal
    Whenever you start talking about a boycott, there's always some defeatists who crawls out of the wood work claiming that it won't work, that there's no point, that there's something better you should be doing. They often have fairly legal or economic arguments as to why it won't work.

    The trouble is that they're wrong. Boycotts are indeed effective, at least sometimes. The fancy arguments about why you shouldn't bother can even be technically correct, and still be irrelevant, because all of these huge, formidible looking organizations are much like the proverbial school yard bully that acts tough but is really very insecure. These guys are always looking over their shoulder at public opinion, and even if your boycott is making a miniscule, barely detectable, dent in their bottom line, they're going to be really worried that you're going to do better next time, that the boycott may get even bigger. Even if there *is* no dent in their bottom line, they may get nervous that there's a sizeable group of people *talking* about a boycott.

    Here's something I said here a while back about the Amazon boycott. Try doing an s/amazon/RIAA/ig on it:

    The idea that Amazon is too big to be shot down by the slashdot crowd is similarly nutty. If you believe this, you've got an exagerated idea about how big Amazon is, and how small slashdot is, and you have no clue about how much leverage a small dedicated group of people have in running a boycott. It wasn't that long ago that the Nike corporation was forced to backpeddle on it's overseas hiring practices because of pressure started by Global Exchange (a small non-profit with a few dozen employees). Recently they've turned their sites (sights?) on the Gap Corporation for using what amounts to indentured servitude in a US territory, and the Gap's sales are now flat. The same people helped organize the protests of the WTO in Seattle (heard about this one, yes? Mass action organized by the internet... ha, what a silly idea, eh?).

  • Re:Companies owning companies (Score:3)

    by Ralph Wiggam ( 22354 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @09:03AM (#882642) Homepage
    KFC and Taco Bell, along with Pizza Hut, used to be part of PepsiCo (which owns Pepsi, Frito Lay, and Tropicana). Several years ago, the three restaurants were spun off as Tricon Global Restaurants, so they're technically related, but not part of the same company. I don't believe that Coke and McDonalds have any official business relationship.

    -B

  • Some info on Majors (Score:3)

    by carlhirsch ( 87880 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @09:10AM (#882643) Homepage

    Even if someone's not owned by a major label, a semi-indie will often have ties by distribution to a major. Plus, for a few years now, major labels have been creating scam indies that are wholly owned but marketed as an indie. Pretty dirty stuff. Maximum Rock-N-Roll had a great chart when they did the major label issue that had the infamous Albini article, plus Punk Planet has reported on it a bit. There might be some info on punkplanet.com.

    Here's a some pretty current info [arancidamoeba.com]

    Also, I believe the Southern distribution alliance is pretty clean of major ties. They handle Touch&Go, Dischord, Simple Machines, and other great indie labels. There's also an online CD/Vinyl retailer who seems to handle a lot of indie labels. The name's escaping me though because I only found them once through a broadcast.com banner. Outersound? Intersound? This ring a bell with anybody?

  • Re:Underground music (Score:3)

    by VAXman ( 96870 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @10:43AM (#882644)

    If you want to avoid RIAA and the majors, you'll have to dig very, very deep to find your music, and the music you'll find may actually not be very much to your liking. Most underground music is underground for a very good reason: it only appeals to a very small group of people. If you're into Zimbabwean goth played on bagpipes or Turkmeni grindcore, you could live a very happy, fulfilled life having nothing to do with the RIAA, but if your taste is slightly more mainstream, you'll have somewhat of a problem.

    Not really. Almost all new classical music is completely independent of the major labels; in fact, most of the major levels have completely ceased their classical operations aside from cruft such as Charlotte Church and the like. Naxos, which is a highly respected budget label, puts out great quality new music for $6 / CD, though most of the classical minors are more expensive. Classical is also extremely well documented; it is easy to find out about the artists and what the best recordings are. Of course, it is also the most meaningful and emotion music in production!

    Music such as folk and bluegrass is also almost completely independent of major labels (bluegrass, in particular, is perhaps the most commercially uncompromising music of the 20th century - it never sold out like all of the teen rebel music such as punk/industrial/ska/etc. did in the 80's and 90's).

  • Non-RIAA labels already suing Napster (Score:3)

    by Carnage4Life ( 106069 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:57AM (#882645) Homepage Journal
    TVT Records has sued Napster [livedaily.com]. According to their website [livedaily.com] they are one of the largest independent record labels in the U.S.

  • Plenty of indie artists on the Internet (Score:3)

    by Dominic_Mazzoni ( 125164 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:53AM (#882646) Homepage
    Why not go to mp3.com and download music by indie artists there?

  • Non-RIAA Labels: (Score:3)

    by joshsisk ( 161347 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @11:22AM (#882647)
    Try a few of these : (notable bands in parenthesis)

    Dischord Records [dischord.com] : Independent for close to 20 years. (Minor Threat, Slant 6, Nation of Ulysses)
    No Idea Records [noidearecords.com] : punk, hardcore, emo (Small Brown Bike, Hot Water Music)
    Troubleman Unlimited [troublemanunlimited.com] : post-punk, post-hardcore, post-rock (Camera Obscura, Red Scare)
    Jade Tree [jadetree.com] : all about the emo rock (the Promise Ring, Cap n Jazz, Jets to Brazil)
    Lovitt Records [lovitt.com] : Indie Rock, Emo, some Electronic-tinged (try Milemarker, 400 Years)
    K Records [olywa.net] : Indie, Folk, Other (Beck, Dub Narcotic Sound System, Sebadoh, IQU, Make-Up)
    Kill Rock Stars [killrockstars.com] : Indie Rock (Bikini Kill, Sleater-Kinney)
    Three One G [threeoneg.com] : crazed hardcore, No Wave, some electronic-type rock (try Black Cat #13, the Locust)
    Ebullition [ebullition.com] : hardcore punk, some emo (try Orchid, Bread and Circuits, Reversal of Man)
    HydraHead [hydrahead.com] : the best in metal and straight edge(Botch, Cave In, Soilent Green)
    Relapse [relapse.com] : metal, hardcore, tough guy stuff. (Napalm Death, Exhumed)
    Reptillian Records [reptilianrecords.com] : a variety of sounds, from garage rock to grindcore to rock'n roll (Page 99, Electric Frankenstein)
    Revelation [revhq.com] : More hardcore and metal. (Rancid, Brandtson, Isis)
    TrustKill [trustkill.com] : Tough guy stuff. (Poison the Well)

    All guaranteed (as far as I know) to be RIAA free!

    Josh Sisk
  • While I disapprove of the way the RIAA operates and most specifically how it "treats Napster," I don't think that a boycott of the RIAA would be productive. In fact, I think it would be counter productive. Napster seems to have the same take, and has organized a "buycott" [napster.com]. Instead of not buying music (the thing the RIAA says that Napster users do anyhow), there should instead be an INCREASE in spending on artists who support Napster. This shows the RIAA how much money they stand to lose by offending Napster users, as opposed to losing them money (something they already think they're doing.) Napster has posted a list [napster.com] of groups that are supporting Napster. Go out and buy more music today!

  • Ani (Score:3)

    by Ketzer ( 207882 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:50AM (#882649)
    Well I still think the boycott idea is moronic, but I'll drop in the one I know:

    Ani DiFranco's label, Righteous Babe, isn't listed on the membership list and I doubt it's a subsidiary of some other.

  • Independant Record Companies (Score:4)

    by Fogie ( 4006 ) <`ude.uww.cc' `ta' `arelgof'> on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:53AM (#882650) Homepage

    These days I avoid the record stores completely and find my music online. My label of choice is Fat Wreck Chords [fatwreck.com]. It's a punk rock label that's managed to be extremely succesful without any corporate involvement. They charge $10 sor CDs including shipping and handling, which is a lot more reasonable than the $16-18 one would be charged elsewhere.

    Just my little contribution to bringing the RIAA down... if you enjoy punk rock I'd give these guys a whirl... they even have full-length mp3's. :)

    Cheers!

  • Re:Boycott all of them! (Score:4)

    by hime ( 5963 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @09:30AM (#882651) Homepage
    Since virtually all labels have spoken out against Napster as though it is the most evil thing ever, I think all labels should be boycotted. Even the Non-RIAA members artificially increase the price of CD's. All of them hold on to an almost brutal level of control over their music, and most of them stop producing music to make other bands more succesful.

    Okay, you're one of the naive ones. But I'm not going to let this go unchecked. Not all non-RIAA members artificially increase the price of CDs - Dischord is a good example. Matador's prices to wholesale/distribution and direct are really reasonable as well. Most indie labels are okay with selling a few bucks cheaper because they want to keep customers happy. They know that the more you offer a customer, the more likely they are to come back. I know with Matador, I'm highly inclined to respect and listen to any artist on their label. I may not like all of them (Mecca Normal? gack!), but I'll give em all a try because Helium, Chavez, Pavement, etc, are all so good.

    As for the brutal level of control - hey, they're a business. They have a finite amount of resources, and they have to decide what CDs to promote and how to do it. I think most of the labels that are non-RIAA are going to be sufficiently small that this really doesn't come into play. Matador pushes everything they release (except for singles, maybe) - they're not releasing 100+ records a year, so it's not a matter of only being able to promote 5 bands and hope they sell really well, and ignoring all the rest.

    I have heard of virtually no label that says "Yes, take our music we appreciate the advertising" apart from a few isolated bands. Those who did seemed to assume that copyright didnt' apply at all, and stole Napsters logo just to make a profit. All labels are evil so boycott the lot

    The reason you've heard virtually no labels say that is because it's really hard running an independent record label. It's even harder to make money doing it. So you're saying they should risk their chances at that so people can have things for free? These bands pay for musicians to spend weeks in the recording studios and such. They have office buildings. They mail records out. Things cost money. They're not in favor of shifting their business model to giving away stuff for free. Look how well it's working for most .coms.

    The bands that have jumped on the Napster bandwagon for the most part seem really self-promoting. ie "We like Napster! We are a band of the people! Love us! Buy our CDs, on sale now!"

    I personally run a very very very small record label. And yes, I use Napster. So it's hard for me sometmes to justify both sides. But not all record labels are evil by any measure. I personally work with my artists to ensure that what costs I can afford to cover get covered, I set up shows so people can see my bands, I mail promos all the time and try to convince people at college radio to play our stuff. It's hard work. But I do it for my love of music, particularly that of the people I work with. I'm hardly evil. Well, in that respect, anyway.

    Now if someone comes along and wants to give away something that I'm charging money for on the grounds that we have too much money already, then I need to take some of my riches and buy a baseball bat to go upside their head with. Come on, guys! Not all people in music make as much money as Britney Spears. Hell, not all people in music get heard on your pop radio station. Take a wider view.

    As for MP3s, yeah, we got em. I deal with my artists and try to get some fun, different, exclusive, whatever, stuff up on the web for download. And I offer up RealAudio files of our releases so people can try before they buy.

    Sonic Therapy [sonictherapy.com]

    So don't call us evil. Much.

  • Just buy used CDs (Score:4)

    by EricWright ( 16803 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:57AM (#882652) Journal
    Someone else has already paid the devil for you. The money goes directly to the store you buy it from, nowhere else. Remember, your gripe is against the RIAA, not the retailers (unless you really are into Napster for the thievery) ;)

    Eric

  • Re:Searching for an intelligent way to protest (Score:4)

    by WNight ( 23683 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @10:31AM (#882653) Homepage
    So, not buying from them isn't going to hurt them, instead we should buy from them?

    Not going to happen. Being able to pick and choose my music and directly support my favorite bands has changed the way I shop for music. I'll gladly pay for music, but only when it goes to the people who made it.

    The RIAA isn't ever getting a cent of my money. Not because I'm actively boycotting them, but because I'm not going to buy music that they'll be selling, or in a way that they'll be selling.

    Sure, they can lie and say that the drop in their sales is due to a bunch of things beyond their control, like evil hax0r d00d5 warezing songs, but they'll be wrong. They're going out of business slowly but surely because they're obsolete and they fear change. Nobody mourns the lack of buggy-whip companies in a world with cars. Nobody will mourn the lack of a physical media distributor in a world without physical media.

    They can bitch and they can whine, but they're irrelevant. They can sue visible entities like Napster, but they can never touch me or the millions like me. Their SDMI initiative won't fly, it's simply another piece of incompatible hardware with stupid proprietary limits. Yawn. I'll keep doing business as I am now, buying MP3s directly or buying CDs from artists I support and MP3ing them. The only way I'll stop this will be to upgrade to a better free and open format when one comes along.

    Don't boycott the RIAA, ignore them. They're obsolete and pointless.

    But whatever you do, do *not* support them in any way. Don't "buycott"! What a fucking stupid idea... it's like sending Microsoft an extra few bucks when buying Windows, to support them in legal battles. You wouldn't have thought of trying to end Aparthied by *supporting* the old South African government!? It's a ridiculous idea. If you want the RIAA to go away, act like they already have.

  • Fat's sold out, check out G7 (Score:4)

    by MrEd ( 60684 ) <`ten.liamliah' `ta' `godenot'> on Thursday August 03, 2000 @12:43PM (#882654)
    As has been posted above, Fat Wreck Chords is on the RIAA member list.

    Bands like Propagandhi [fatwreck.com], who used to be on the Fat label, have moved off to start their own indie labels. Check out the G-7 Welcoming Committee [g7welcomingcommittee.com].

  • Buycott (Score:4)

    by matticus ( 93537 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:57AM (#882655) Homepage
    well, napster has posted a Buy-Cott list on their web site of groups who support napster, and they recommend you buy the cds of the bands on the list even though these bands are on RIAA labels. some of them include Sunny Day Real Estate, Radiohead, and the Get-upKids. being as i'm a huge SDRE fan, i was happy to see them on the Buy list. as Napster is blocked from my corporate firewall, i am not sure of the exact link, but i think it's here [napster.com]. Buy these CDs! especially radiohead's OK Computer /the Bends and Sunny Day Real Estate's The Rising Tide. These are three of best cds ever made. and the bands support Napster.

  • there's tons of 'em (Score:4)

    by grizzo ( 138368 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:51AM (#882656)
    probably the reason you haven't yet seen a list is because nobody could possibly single-handedly compile one; there are so many independent labels out there in garages and basements that to actually compile a comprehensive list would be insanity.

    i think a good idea would be to set up some sort of site that the record labels themselves could use to proclaim their lack of affiliation with the riaa... however, that could lead to a lot of serious effort too. i dunno.

  • Re:Ani (Score:4)

    by Ketzer ( 207882 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:56AM (#882657)
    Also, indie-music.com [indie-music.com] has a big alphabetical list with links.

    If you really care, file that list and RIAA's list and cross-reference them.

  • Re:Ani (Score:5)

    by TheTomcat ( 53158 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @09:16AM (#882658) Homepage
    I don't really know any of Ani DiFranco's stuff, but apparently, the following message adorns all Ani DiFranco Intellectual Property:
    Unauthorized duplication, although sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing.

    © Righteous Babe Records
    What a great copyright notice, from an artist who actually WANTS people to distribute their music. Somehow it just makes sense.

  • Check out www.cdbaby.com (Score:5)

    by Ramses0 ( 63476 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @08:53AM (#882659)

    www.cdbaby.com [cdbaby.com] has a bunch of cool CD's (with audio sampls) that appear to be put out directly by the artists. I haven't bought anything from them yet, but check out their policies [cdbaby.net], and you'll see that there are definitely artists without labels on their site.

    If you're trying to boycott the RIAA you should definitely check them out.

    --Robert

  • tvt-a quick history (Score:5)

    by ndpatel ( 185409 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @09:15AM (#882660) Homepage
    just because a label is indie doesn't mean that they are sweet and grandmotherly and innocent. TVT is an excellent example:

    TVT got their start selling semi-legal tapes of old sitcom theme songs (TeleVision Tunes--get it?). when they got shut down for that, they put up a big fuss over how it was fair use etc. etc. fairly similar to the whole napster "well it's on the radio" argument, both in scope and ludicrous nature.

    so TVT moved on to indie music, which at the time (~1979) was punk/industrial. they snapped up a little record shop in chicago called wax trax! and went at it. ministry was signed for a time, as was wire, i think. they were horrible to all their bands, mostly because they lied about having money (which they didn't) and about tour support (which they never gave).

    the late eighties came, and with it trent reznor and NIN. he signed to TVT under the name nothing records. the idea was that NIN would release under nothing, as would other industrial bands. long story short (too late!) trent fought and fought TVT for control of his own music on his own label and nearly lost. hence the long delay between the release of broken and the downward spiral. he was moving himself over to a major, because they treated him better than his indie label.

    so boycott TVT too! although they talk the talk, they act just as irresponsibly as any major label.

    just a side note: what constitutes a "major label?" units shipped? number of signed acts? membership in the RIAA/"big 5?" this has never been made clear.
  • People seem to have picked boycotting as a reaction simply because it's the first thing that jumps at them-- Someone's selling something and we don't like their policies! Stop buying their stuff! Unfortunately, the RIAA is too far-reaching and the group they've actively offended is too small and specific for this to be the most effective form of protest. Since the RIAA is already of the opinion that these people don't pay for their music, a sharp decrease in sales is something that would jsut fuel their fire... if there even was a sharp decrease in sales. As is, a boycott would simply make a slight dip in their sales in the area that they're currently expecting one: giving them fuel for future reports where they can state that "as Napster became more high-profile, sales of RIAA music went down." Just what we need.

    As has already been mentioned, Napster is promoting the idea of a "buycott [napster.com]," which is an excellent way of supporting their supporters (instead of punishing their adversaries) and demonstrating the buying power that Napster users have. A powerful statement, if it works. Even better, write to the heads of the record labels and TELL THEM that you're a music fan and you support Napster, that you buy music and would like them to support Napster, too. There are some more suggestions on Napster's site [napster.com], and here are some addresses to write to:
    BMG
    1540 Broadway
    New York, NY 10036
    Fax: 212-930-4398
    Strauss Zelnick

    EMI Music Group
    1290 6th Ave.
    New York, NY 10104
    Ken Berry

    NMPA
    711 Third Avenue
    New York, NY 10017
    Fax: 212-242-4173
    Edward Murphy

    RIAA
    1330 Connecticut Avenue N.W., Suite 300
    Washington, D.C. 20036
    Fax: 202-775-7253
    Hilary Rosen

    Sony Music Entertainment
    550 Madison Ave
    New York, NY 10022
    Fax: 212-833-4583
    Tommy Mottola
    Michele Anthony

    Time Warner
    75 Rockefeller Plaza
    New York, NY 10019
    Fax: 212-275-3839
    Gerald Levin

    Universal Music Group
    70 Universal City Plaza
    Universal City, CA 91608
    Doug Morris

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