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Comment: Re:Technically C++ (Score 1) 124

by vux984 (#49617745) Attached to: Singapore's Prime Minister Shares His C++ Sudoku Solver Code

// comments were added to the C standard. Not good old ANSI see but still ok.

I haven't looked at the code, but the one thing I usually trip over when having to write pure C instead of C++ that's really mostly C is that everything has to be declared at the top of the function... Always. even some variable you only use in the IF $DEBUG block, I normally declare those in the if $debug block where it occurs, rather than creating a 2nd if debug block at the top of the function just to declare it.

And stuff like that.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49612253) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

If the only argument is that Playboy is so bad that the cropped image is indelibly tainted by association, then I guess I'm fine with that - but the logical foundation seems shaky.

subsitute "so bad" with "controversial" and its about right. Playboy is a source of controversy, and anything coming from it IS going to be indelibly tainted by that controversy.

rational assessment of information is usually based on content rather than provenance.

I accept that the objection to the image may not be entirely rational. I also accept that, rational or not, their objection does exist.

I also note that the provenance of the image usually does come up, because its "interesting", and the inevitable recovery of the full nude image by some interested student, and the content of the resulting commentary is usually inappropriate in a computer science class. While the cropped picture itself is unobjectionable it all but inevitably triggers this chain of events.

Between that and the fact that the image itself is not in any way irreplaceable or indispensable it seems logical to replace the image.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49605425) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold


I first met with the TJ administration in May in an attempt to fix the environment in our computer science labs. School officials didnâ(TM)t stop using the centerfold image in the classroom until February, after I met with them again.

Sounds like the school saw things her way... at least eventually.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49605367) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

Because someone will find something offensive about the picture of your wife...

So what? If significantly fewer people find it offensive, then its better.

And I can pretty much guarantee than an innocuous headshot photo I take of perfectly normal woman wearing a hat with a feather on it will prove to be far less controversial than a cropped playboy centerfold from the 70s.

Therefore, why not just use the one we already have.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49605317) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

You know why, your just being deliberately obtuse.

I am not being obtuse. I am well aware it is both a common and famous image. I've seen it several times over the years.

But the only real objection to dropping it amounts to "In a perfect world no one would think we should have to".

To that I would say "Grow up". The entire so-called standard image collection is extremely low resolution, poor quality color, and dated. Nobody is really doing real science on it anymore. We have libraries with thousands of equal or better images. People don't pick Lenna for their publication to compare it with old research - people pick her because she's like a mascot.

We can pick a new mascot image. It won't break science.

Lots of sports teams in the US have dropped their traditional names and selected new mascots over the years due to being inappropriately offensive to native americans. Even now The Washington Redskin's owner is kicking and screaming to hold onto that name, but the writing is on the wall; and its only a matter of time until that gets changed too.

Lenna is a central story in computer imaging history and that's fine. Let it just become history. It's not a appropriate photo anymore, it never really was.

This is a school that is supposed to be developing kids to do advanced work in the field.

So, not using the image in a high school assignment will somehow diminish the students education? Absurd.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49604961) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

Are we going to begin punishing people for having poor judgement?

Yes. That's exactly what we do. There are consequences. In most cases simply altering ones behavior to better meet expectations is sufficient.

Except - powerful people aren't held to such a standard. Look at Clinton. That skank has such poor judgement, I wonder how she has managed to feed herself all her life,

This really doesn't need to devolve into politics. No question the world is not remotely fair.

Do the course work, and stop worrying about the people around you. They don't matter. Do the work, get your grade, pass the course, and move on. That is what growing up is all about, right?

You've essentially said the students shouldn't question authority or express themselves when they see misogyny or injustice etc. Yes they will learn the world isn't a perfect place -- that is part of growing up. But trying to change it, and changing what you can is a part of growing up too.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49604815) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

What's the point? The only difference would be the photographer.

The point? My version wouldn't be a crop of a nude woman that would belong to playboy. There would be nothing the least bit controversial about it, and it would have all the same technical merits in terms of suitability as a test case for an image processing alogorithm.

I don't see how continuing to use the image helps them, though.

What does what "you see" have to do with it? Frankly I agree with you about the image itself. I am not personally offended by it.

But surely you accept the empirical evidence that many other people do find even the idea of the use of a centerfold image lifted (even cropped) from Playboy to be inappropriate in an academic setting.

I see it. I even agree its inappropriate. Its certainly not something I'd knowingly do if I were selecting images to create a sample set of images for high school course.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49604777) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold


your right. it meets a technical definition of censorship. I withdraw my objection based on it not being censorship.

However, even if I accept its "censorship", so what? There is nothing wrong whatsoever with not doing something that pops into your head because you realize other people would not appreciate it, would not understand, or would be offended by it.

There is nothing wrong with that. Yet you make out like its universally wrong. That's ridiculous.

Or are you really suggesting that a high school computer science teacher is showing good judgement if he goes through his porn collection, crops a bunch of the images of various porn actresses and provides those as his sample data set, with attribution. (Because not providing proper attribution is itself academic dishonesty.)

Does he have the right to do it? Sure. Because otherwise censorship right?

But does everyone else have a right to tell him he's an idiot, and refuse to do the assignment, and complain the administration that they feel the assignment is completely inappropriate, and demand he be replaced with a teacher who doesn't make decisions like this. Why yes, they can, because if they couldn't that would be censorship too. And around we go.

Some measure of reasonable self-censorship is part of normal social lubricant. Whether or not you personally feel the image is offensive you are aware that it controversial. If you select it knowingly you provoke controversy. If if you provoke controversy... then own the consequences.

While you have the right to offend. Other people have the right to be offended.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49603607) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

Actually, there are several - complex background, including a mirror, widely varying colors and textures (e.g. the hat feather),


or take your pick...crop to hearts content...


Thus it provides a useful test for face recognition and segmentation of natural images with or without color. The image was originally chosen by chance, but it's because of these qualities that it has been commonly used for so long.

Yes, its a suitable image. But its not uniquely suitable. Any of thousands of other images are equally suitable.

Hell, I could recreate the pose with a volunteer model (wife), 10 minutes, and trip to the thrift shop for.

In any event, you shouldn't take seriously any computer vision papers based on results from a single image.

Of course.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49603447) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

One of the controversies when I was in high school centered around 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest'.

You read it in a class where the controversies raised are a central part of the education about american history and american literature.

and people more like yourself argued that it should be banned from the curriculum simply because it was controversial.

I respectfully disagree. I wouldn't ban it from the curriculum. Its perfectly appropriate for an American Lit curriculum.

However, if I were teaching calligraphy and wanted to give them practice exercises with n's and g's What possible reason is there to justify selecting "sand nigger" as their practice words? Yes, there are n's and g's ... but innumerable other options are equally suitable to satisfy that objective, There is no reason to select an ethnic slur. Because its a calligraphy class... and we want to focus on calligraphy... brush strokes and technique. You want to focus on how to draw the letters, not get overly distracted by what the practice exercises actually say.

Every student in the class was involved during class discussion, unlike discussions about ancient "classics" like Shakespeare's works.

In a class where you want discussions about the book selecting a book that is both suitable for the course (american english lit) incites discussion makes sense.

In a CS image processing course you want discussion about rasterization, antialiasing, edge detection...not on the ethics of porn. Why would you select an image that originates with porn? Its not like there is a dearth of suitable photos to choose from.

Comment: Re:Dear Young Mr Zug (Score 1) 604

by vux984 (#49602237) Attached to: My High School CS Homework Is the Centerfold

If you've bought into this bullshit about sexuality being inherently profane, you're part of the problem

I haven't bought into this bullshit. I don't think the image is the least bit profane.

I have however bought into the unequivocal fact that the image draws controversy and discussion unrelated to teaching computer science.

If I were a teacher, and i wasn't interested in that discussion and controversy distracting the class, I'd pick a different image. Its not like there is any thing technical about that image that makes it especially useful as a test case.

It's disgusting that sexuality is so maligned that a completely innocuous image is considered inappropriate simply because it is cropped from another image which should not be considered offensive. People keep trying to show that pornography is harmful, and they keep failing to do so even when that is their agenda. Let it go!

Great points. A good topic for a philosophy course; but it's not computer science.

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