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Journal of tomhudson (43916)

Housing crisis worsening - Silicon Valley not immune.

[ #196884 ]
Saturday February 23, @08:37PM
The Almighty Buck

But first, an update: As of February, 2008, 10.3% of all homes are "under water" on their mortgages You can read the gory details about half-way down the page ...

Silicon Valley is melting down as well ...

Report: Midwage jobs vanish in Silicon Valley
Tom Abate, Chronicle Staff Writer
Tuesday, February 19, 2008

While other companies are downsizing, electrical contractor Dirk Swanepoel is looking to boost his eight-person Morgan Hill staff.

"The biggest problem I have is a lack of quality people," said Swanepoel, who says demand for electrical work never seems to stop growing. Even when the dot-com bust emptied buildings, electricians had to turn out the lights.

"Unfortunately, we had to go into some of the buildings we had built up and take some of the work down," he said.

Swanepoel's experience is in line with a new report that will be released Friday that identified electrical work as one of the few growing, well-paid fields accessible to someone without an advanced degree. Yet most job seekers don't know such opportunities exist, nor do they have any way to get retrained if they need to make a career switch, according to the 2008 Silicon Valley Index.

The index is an annual snapshot of Silicon Valley, which is defined as all of San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, plus Scotts Valley in the Santa Cruz area and Fremont, Newark and Union City in the East Bay.

For the first time, this report documents an alarming fact: The middle fell out of the region's payroll between 2002 and 2006.

Federal and state jobs data show that 62,050 midwage jobs - defined as having salaries between $30,000 and $80,000 - vanished during that four-year period, according to the report.

During the same four years, employers added 66,200 jobs that paid less than $30,000. And despite bullish times for the likes of Google and Apple, Silicon Valley employers added just 16,790 jobs during that period that paid more than $80,000.

"We have indeed documented a squeeze on the middle. Now we have to figure out what it means and what to do about it," said Russell Hancock, president of Joint Venture: Silicon Valley Network, the public-private partnership group that has been issuing such reports since 1995.

As of this month, 10.3% of all homes in the US are "under water" with respect to their mortgages.

By EDMUND L. ANDREWS and LOUIS UCHITELLE, The New York Times Posted: 2008-02-22 10:03:10
Filed Under: Business News, Nation News

WASHINGTON Prodded in part by some of the nations biggest banks, the Bush administration and Congress are considering costly new proposals for the government to rescue hundreds of thousands of homeowners whose mortgages are higher than the value of their houses.

Not since the Depression has a larger share of Americans owed more on their homes than they are worth. With the collapse of the housing boom, nearly 8.8 million homeowners, or 10.3 percent of the total, are underwater. That is more than double the percentage just a year ago, according to a new estimate of the damage by Moodys Economy.com.

This is only the beginning. 2008 and 2009 are when most of the mortgage resets are expected to occur. Look for 30% of all homes to be "under water".

Some say that this doesn't affect everyone - just the people who HAVE to sell. Of course, just like the rising tide of the bubble lifted up valuations of all homes, not just the ones that were sold, so the bursting of the bubble lowers the valuations of all homes, not just the ones forced to sell.

30% may actually be optimistic. Some bears are saying it'll be 50%. Either way, its a disaster, and one that even 0% interest rates can't "fix". Look for a Japan-style "lost decade".

So, how to survive?

  1. If you're under water now, start the "walk away" process. The sooner you do it, the sooner you'll be able to start putting away the difference between rent and mortgage payments. Depending on where you live, you may have a year or more before you're forced to leave - that's a year you can sock away money, rather than throwing it at a lost cause.
  2. If you're not under water, good for you so far - but unless you have 50% equity, you may end up behind anyway. In the meantime, if you're not already "divested" from home-ownership, you can't just pick up stakes and move to a better job if you have to; see if you can sell now, before it gets worse;
  3. Debt - lose it. Auto debt, credit card debt, all debt. Do anything and everything you can to get out of debt over the next 4 years (the trough - 2011). This way, you'll be able to take advantage of any upswing sometime (hopefully) in the next decade.
  4. Hopelessly in debt? Wipe the slate clean. The sooner you "take the cure", the sooner you're on the other side.

This applies doubly if you're in California, Florida, Nevada, or the cities of Chicago, Cleveland, or Detroit.

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  • It's not entirely clear to me what it is that you're suggesting. You seem to be saying those with negative equity should prepare to sell up and switch to renting instead. Is that the case? If so, I'd say it's stunningly bad advice...
    • People who are underwater are already selling or going into voluntary foreclosure - even when they CAN afford the payments. For them, its strictly a financial equation - they're better off at the end of 7 years. They can rent an identical house for less (often less than half their current mortgage payments), and at the end of 7 years, their credit record no longer reflects the foreclosure.

      What I'm saying is that people who are not yet under water should also get out while they can, before declining value

      • Houses are going to continue to go down for the next 2 to 4 years. Sell now, buy the same (or similar) house in 4 years for half the price.

        If you're correct, that would be a great move. Bit it's a hell of a gamble, and has some fairly expensive downsides if you're wrong...

        The only time it would be bad advice is if houses are expected to hold or increase in value. That's definitely not going to happen this decade

        That's your opinion. I happen to disagree with it. Perhaps it's worth remembering that Nort

        • Houses in the USA and Britain are the most at risk of future price reductions. The US prediction of 30% of all houses going under water is solid - already, more than 10% are past that point, and we've yet to hit the bulk of the mortgage resets.

          Other high-risk areas include Italy and Germany, and to a fair extent, parts of Oz.

          Switching to renting makes sense when

          1. you can pay half of what it would cost to own - let the landlord lose equity ...
          2. you then have no upkeep expenses ...
          3. if you don't like th
      • Everybody talks about how much cheaper it is to rent. I must say I haven't seen that where I live, Indianapolis area. Sure it's cheaper if your renting a one or two bedroom apartment or maybe a condo, but if you want to rent a 3 bedroom apartment or house it's much less expensive to buy.

        It seems like every rental house around here is owned by someone who is either really greedy or has a bad mortgage.

        These are around $150,000 houses renting for $1300 or more a month.
        • Well, a 30 year fixed mortgage is going to cost you around a grand a month ... assuming you kick in $10k up front. That $10k has a lost "opportunity cost" of around $700.

          Then you have to add in your school, local improvement, and municipal taxes, garbage, etc. Average rate is $3.21/$100. (varies from $2.79 to $4.13). That adds between $4,200.00 and $6,200.00

          As a tenant, you're only insuring your personal possessions and tenants' liability, so it will probably be a couple of hundred bucks less than the

      • People who are underwater are already selling or going into voluntary foreclosure - even when they CAN afford the payments. For them, its strictly a financial equation - they're better off at the end of 7 years. They can rent an identical house for less (often less than half their current mortgage payments), and at the end of 7 years, their credit record no longer reflects the foreclosure.

        Who are these people? If they also happen to not be able to afford their mortgage then of course they are going into

        • If they can afford the payments, why the hell are they selling at or near the bottom?

          The experts, as well as a LOT of the public, no longer believe we're anywhere near the bottom. They're projecting further declines over the next 2 years. Not a total of 10% over 7 years, but 35% to 45% over 3 years (We've already had more than a 10% decline in many markets).

          Here's a quote from a recent story in business week [businessweek.com] - analysts who are now expecting a FURTHER decline of 25% to 30% ...

          And that could be just the

      • Boy am I glad I bought back in 2001.. have a house that's still valued around 2x what I paid (so even a 50% drop won't kill me).. and I put 20% down then. I got a 30 year fixed (I can't believe the crazy loans some people sign up for) and after a couple years re-fi'd to a 15. Still paying an extra $250/month or so too, so I'm way ahead of the curve.

        Of course, I also bought a house that was good enough for me, and has potential to be expanded upon later if needed. Too many people jump for houses that are,
        • Most urban planners want some high-density housing to help carry the tax load. It takes fewer square feet per person for streets, fewer linear feet of piping for sewage and water, etc.

          Also, the mix of housing means that you're not stuck with everyone being in the same financial situation - great when everything is rising, but terrible when job loses hit specific sectors.

          Also, a lot of people are finding the extra expenses of exurban sprawl to be a waste - too much commuting time, etc. Here's an interes

  • If large amounts of non-experts know about something in the financial world, the profit has more or less already been made, and their recommendations stand only to benefit them. This includes this subprime mess --- now is really too late to do much about it, the time to act would have been last spring, or at best, last summer. Even the advice to stay out of debt a) can't work for everyone b) isn't really always a good idea anyway -- even with today's high interest rates going to university, owning a house
    • I agree its well past the time to fix the problem. All most people can do now is react.

      In many jurisdictions (for example California), if the only loan on the house is a first (all loans used in the initial purchase by the buyer are -recourse loans, even 80/20 loans) mortgage, and you haven't done a refi or HELOC, if you turn in the keys, they have no further claim against your assets.

      Couple that with the long (and growing longer) turn-around time for a foreclosure (its up to 15 months now in Cali) and

  • and then bought new out here in CO. We've made some bad choices regarding HELOCs and how we spent that money, but we've still got I'd say at least 1/3 of our house's value in equity, and we locked in a 5.5% 30-yr back in '03. So we're doing pretty good.

    Just don't look at our credit card debt. ;)
    • Just don't look at our credit card debt. ;)

      Come on, you know you want to vote in the credit card debt poll; and now you don't have to scour my journal to vote on on it - its on the front page ;-0

      Now THAT was a bit of a shocker!

      • In what way was it a shocker?

        I plan on paring our CC debt down quite a large amount this year.
        • I was referring to slashdot copying my poll and putting it on the front page as a shocker ... not your cc debt (which I don't know the amount :-).

          It just surprised me to see it there, totally unexpected (not that I mind - I'm glad people are finding it interesting).