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smitty_one_each's Journal: Heck yeah, unions 33

Journal by smitty_one_each

In late April 2013, the American Federation of Teachers-Wisconsin chapter gathered for a post-election "workshop" on the campus of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Among those scheduled to present that day was Mike McCabe of Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, to explain how big-spending special interests "conspire to prevent government decisions from reflecting the will of the people." McCabe's presentation promised to include a discussion of how "Super PACs, dark money and unlimited election spending" erode "democracy's health."

Perhaps lacking the most in McCabe's presentation was any sense of irony or self-awareness. According to one recent report, AFT has been the 12th-largest contributor to candidates and outside spending groups in America over the last quarter-century, shelling out $37 million to support Democratic candidates almost exclusively. Further, WDC is a liberal lobbying group that advocates for progressive reforms while refusing to disclose its donors, and McCabe himself is a registered lobbyist.

Private sector unions are a matter of free assembly. Public sector unions are a godforsaken mutiny that even the generally wrongheaded FDR understood were a lousy idea.

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Heck yeah, unions

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  • Why? What makes them any different? Why should they have less rights than the rest of us? No no no, equal treatment for all is the mandate. Only people in positions of authority should be treated differently. Over them should hang the Sword.

    Don't try to distinguish the unions from the rest of the players in the capitalist game. They are merely commodity brokers looking to increase the value of their investments. Capitalists all, playing by the exactly same rules, survival of the fittest.

    • He says that because there is a higher percentage of unionized workers in the public sector than in the private sector. The conservative movement has succeeded in suppressing unionization rates in the private sector almost down to zero, they now are going after their top target.

      That, and of course the public sector employees are paid with tax revenue. Hence the conservatives see them all as worthless, they will do anything they can to be the first to fire them. It matters not if you are a meter maid,
      • Why? What makes them any different? Why should they have less rights than the rest of us?

        Conflict of interest.

        • Why? What makes them any different? Why should they have less rights than the rest of us?

          Conflict of interest.

          They are interested in keeping their jobs and earning an honest wage. What does that conflict with in any way different from the same interests from any other worker?

          • "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy"
            Restated, do you know what a positive feedback loop is, sir?
        • That makes no sense. They are competing interests, nothing more. Automakers and other companies get tax money also. And besides, how 'bout that 300 mil? No "conflict of interest" there? Please, everybody is playing the same game, reaching for the same goals. Unions are no different than any of the other players. The leaders are just like any other C*O. Why do you hate capitalism?

          • Makes perfect sense. Quit aborting understanding. A public sector union is the original self-licking ice cream cone.
            • Nope, sorry. You need to explain why it's different. 300 million dollars has proven you wrong. State and corp are one. Public and private are indivisible. Coercive force is applied by one through the other. Capitalism is all inclusive. All the players are just pieces in a game of chess. With our combined wealth, should we decide to use it, we have equal power over both. This is how the game works. It's only natural. You see the same thing in other species of animals. Biology is more than spending a semester

              • So, amidst your universalism, what was the Sarah Palin objection, again?
                • Nothing in particular. She's just a regular, crooked politician. Hey, if you want her in, knock yourself out. It really doesn't matter to me. It just strikes me odd to see you all complain about the people you vote for over and over. The ones you think of as "alternatives" answer to precisely the same money. But don't believe me. Vote for them. Just don't expect me to. I don't need them. My world won't change.

      • The conservative movement has succeeded in suppressing unionization rates in the private sector almost down to zero, they now are going after their top target.

        No, that would be the market telling the unions what they can do with themselves, e.g. the UAW in Michigan.

        public sector employees are paid with tax revenue. Hence the conservatives see them all as worthless

        Again, conflict of interest, as I inadvertently replied to you with a fustakrakich quotation in this thread.

        • The conservative movement has succeeded in suppressing unionization rates in the private sector almost down to zero, they now are going after their top target.

          No, that would be the market telling the unions what they can do with themselves, e.g. the UAW in Michigan.

          The UAW is almost a negligible part of the Michigan workforce. Thanks to your "right to work (for less money)" laws the big three moved most of their assembly jobs out of Michigan. If you knew anyone who lived in Michigan you would know that.

          public sector employees are paid with tax revenue. Hence the conservatives see them all as worthless

          Again, conflict of interest, as I inadvertently replied to you with a fustakrakich quotation in this thread.

          And it remains not a conflict of interest. Repeat it as much as you want but it won't change the case.

          • Thanks to your "right to work (for less money)" laws the big three moved most of their assembly jobs out of Michigan.

            Indeed, this is called economics. Your understanding is the sound of one hand clapping, grasshopper.

            • Thanks to your "right to work (for less money)" laws the big three moved most of their assembly jobs out of Michigan.

              Indeed, this is called economics

              It can also be called worker exploitation. Believe it or not, not all economic models require it. Regardless though it demonstrates how little power the unions still have in Michigan, as there are hardly any union members left working there. But go ahead and repeat that mantra anyways and pretend that somehow it supports your claim of how workers being paid less than the cost of living is good for everyone.

              • After the last two elections, I don't want to hear another word from voting age workers about the exploitation, because the Obama administration has been nothing but a wrecking ball for our economy.
                • ...the Obama administration has been nothing but a wrecking ball for our economy.

                  Ever the drama queen you are. Are you that locked up in your TV world? You repeat it word for word... That's about as sad as seeing all those people waiting in line.

                  • I catch less than an hour of TV daily, divided amongst HGTV, the local NBC affiliate, and a bit of Sprout for the little guy. Even if you want to be an apologist, and claim that the economy is mostly out of BHO's hands, he totally owns crap such as the KeystoneXL policy.
                    • Your pjmedia, etc is the same bunch. They repeat FOX and Rush for you. So you're doing the same thing, whether you know it or not. And you are the one being the apologist for them every time you parrot their nonsense. You're still doing the personality thing, like they do.

                      Now, if he kills Keystone, it will be a nice bone he throws out to the good guys. The thing will be an ongoing disaster, and the American people will not benefit one bit. It is a windfall for the politicians along the route and all the bus

                    • They repeat FOX and Rush for you.

                      So your requirement is that conservatives must publish stories uniquely?

                      You and d_r, are just like Patty Duke and her identical cousin.

                      Unfair. I'm not into lying, and I don't have an issue with confessing a fault.

                    • No, I'm saying you should try thinking for yourself. You might just find enlightenment that way. Right now you feel safe following the herd, and if that is what you want, then more power...

                      You are lying to yourself, as he is. You are confusing conditioning with reality, and when they conflict, the frontal cortex switches off, and you go into instinct mode.

                    • you should try thinking for yourself

                      Your assertion that I haven't done my own research and arrived at independent conclusion is kind of insulting. Thank you very little.

                    • Unless you show your work, I have nothing else to go by. I read those sites also. What you have posted so far is mere repetition. If you claim them as your own words, then it's plagiarism.

                    • Sure.
  • You understand that unions arose specifically as a counterbalance to the power of corporations and the plutocrats, right? If it hadn't been for those original abuses of power and exploitation of people, there would never have been unions.

    What you're basically doing, Smitty, is crying, "Mom! Tell Johnny to stop hitting me back!"

    But that seems to be the leading meme of the Republican-types now, especially the WATB-in-chief:

    http://online.wsj.com/news/art... [wsj.com]

    • by Arker (91948)
      You understand that the wobblies and the AFT have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right?

      If you want to talk about the historical background to the AFT we need to talk about Fichte and Horace Mann not Big Bill Haywood.
  • FDR did not oppose public sector unions because they were somehow different than the others. He opposed them because they could challenge HIM. I am sure he would have liked them better if labor were nationalized, like the German Worker's League.
    • No, the basic conflict of interest was as blatantly obvious to FDR as the subsequent results are to anyone with a clue.
      • Anybody with a clue would see what I said was self evident. Goes right along with FDR's "maximum wage" idea, that whatever he was making should be about right for everybody else.
        • When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

          Nowadays, it's more about striking it rich via expanding the bureaucracy than it is about a picket line, but the point is the same.

Long computations which yield zero are probably all for naught.

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