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Comment Re: NUKEM!! NUKEM NOW!! (Score 2) 728

Yes, but civilized people attack the enemy military/governments. Not the people going to see a metal concert.

I agree. Everyone should follow international law. People who violate international law should be prosecuted and punished.

But that doesn't happen. We kill innocent civilians all the time.


And if we ignore international humanitarian law, it's pretty difficult to convince the other side that they should follow international law too.

Although sometimes they do anyway.


Comment Re: NUKEM!! NUKEM NOW!! (Score 3, Insightful) 728

But note that France does not conduct any drone strikes,

France was bombing ISIS in Iraq and Syria.


I don't like ISIS, they've done horrible things, but if you attack someone, you can reasonably expect him to attack you back.

the two issues have nothing to do with each other, and there should be no doubt that terrorist attacks like in Paris are even more heinous crimes than any drone strikes anyone could imagine.

If I were Syrian I would have a hard time understanding why it's more henious to machine-gun down 100 people in a theater than it is to kill 100 people with a drone strike at, say, a wedding.

As I said, its a question of the intentions.

That's a distinction without a difference.

If I were a Syrian, I wouldn't care whether my wife and children were killed by someone who was intending to kill them or who just killed them as collateral damage.

If you drop a bomb, you know what's going to happen.

Comment Re:Moslems are killing you guys and ... (Score 1) 965

so seriously, you can't unequivocally denounce a horrible crime? you can's say, "that is a shocking crime" without equivocating?

No, I can't denounce a horrible crime against us without also pointing out that we committed equally horrible crimes against them.

I can't accept the narrative that we are the good guys and they are the bad guys (which GWB actually believed).

These are tit-for-tat crimes. Retaliation is a universal principle. We bomb Lebanon (through our Israeli allies), and Osama bin Laden bombs us. The French bomb Syria, and ISIS retaliates against the French.

We can't stop these crimes unless we stop provoking them with our original crimes.

Do you denounce the Iraq war? Do you think American lives are more valuable than the Iraqi lives we ended in our war against Iraq?

Comment Re:Moslems are killing you guys and ... (Score 1) 965

No, I think Muslims, Christians and Jews are equally likely to commit terrorism and mass murder.

"Juden und Heiden hinaus!" so duldet der christliche SchwÃrmer.
"Christ und Heide verflucht!" murmelt ein jüdischer Bart.
"Mit den Christen an SpieÃY und mit den Juden ins Feuer!"
Singet ein türkisches Kind Christen und Juden zum Spott.
Welcher ist der Klügste? Entscheide! Aber sind diese
Narren in deinem Palast, Gottheit, so geh ich vorbei.

The closest I've seen to 19th-century Nihlism is the U.S. C.I.A. and the right-wing hawks, who managed to influence GWB. A lot of their policies come down to, "Let's destroy a functioning society, and a new pro-U.S. free market government will magically rise up from the ruins." That didn't work too well in Iraq. Or Afghanistan. Or Iran. Or Latin America. Or Asia.

Comment Re:So much for the gun control and gun free zones (Score 1) 965

If you were going on a mass shooting rampage and i was armed and shot you after your second killing, it would be considered a mass shooting.

I haven't been able to find any of those incidents in which an armed killer was shot by gun-carrying bystanders after the first or second killing. Could you cite a couple?

Comment Re:Moslems are killing you guys and ... (Score 1) 965

Islam had their Enlightenment. They helped give the Enlightenment to the West. They continued the study of Greek and Roman learning when most of Europe was illiterate.

If you were to compare Christianity with Islam at the turn of the 1st millenium, 1000 CE, the Islamic world was way ahead of Europe in everything that the enlightenment valued: they were more secular, tolerant, advanced in science, technology and commerce. They gave the Jews a refuge from European anti-Semitism.

Al-Haytan wrote a book that gave Newton his understanding of optics. Muslim doctors (and Jewish doctors, whom they accepted as colleagues) developed modern medicine.

One of the reasons the Islamic world didn't reach a modern state of development today was the imperialism of Europe and the U.S. Whenever they developed self-rule, the West overthrew their government and set up a puppet state. That's what happened in Iran, when the CIA overthrew Mossadegh. The U.S. supported Saudi Arabia, at the time they promoted Wahhabism. We overthrew the Afghan socialist government and put the Taliban in power.

Comment Re:Moslems are killing you guys and ... (Score 1) 965

And let's also condemn those Christian terrorists.

Remember George W. Bush in the White House, with God telling him to invade Iraq?

The result: 150,000 innocent people killed, and the destruction of a country.

He wasn't some kooky isolated loner. He was the president of the U.S.

And how many people did he execute in Texas?

Comment Re:Majority doesn't matter. (Score 1) 965

When was the last time a Christian, a Jew, or an atheist flew a plane into a building full of people while praising their God? Fuck them. This shit keeps happening over and over again, and every single time some idiot comes out and starts telling everyone that "they're not all like this". I don't care. A sufficient percentage of them I so ass backward that we need to do something about all of them at this point.

The Christians, Jews and European atheists don't have to fly planes into buildings, they can just drop bombs.

The last time? How about this one:


Mr. Hollande actively stepped up French participation in the military air campaign at the end of September. Just last week, France attacked oil operations under the Islamic State’s control in Syria. On Oct. 8, it conducted a targeted strike against militants in Raqqa, Syria, apparently targeting Salim Benghalem, a French citizen fighting for the Islamic State.

Comment Re:So much for the gun control and gun free zones (Score 1) 965

Paris shows us absolutely that it is immoral to disarm the populace, at any time and any place. If there had been but one or two armed citizens in the theater 50-100 more people might be alive tonight. Even just the chance that could be so, makes it criminal to keep the people disarmed.

Actually, there were two armed, trained good guys with guns at Charlie Hebdo, but they were quickly killed. A good guy with a gun can never match a trained group of bad guys with better guns and the advantage of surprise.

Another policeman, 48-year-old Franck Brinsolaro, was killed moments earlier in the assault on Charlie Hebdo where he was responsible for the protection of its editor, Stéphane Charbonnier, one of the 11 killed in the building. A colleague said he "never had time" to pull his weapon.

Comment Re:So much for the gun control and gun free zones (Score 1) 965

Except armed people stop killings and other violence all the time.

Maybe you could cite a few of those cases for the authors of this article.

The NRA Myth of Arming the Good Guys
Mass shootings in the US are on the riseâ"and ordinary citizens with guns don't stop them.
By Mark Follman
Dec. 28, 2012

If only Sandy Hook's principal had been packing heat, the argument goes, she could've stopped the mass killer. There's just one little problem with this: Not a single one of the 62 mass shootings we studied in our investigation has been stopped this way--even as the nation has been flooded with millions of additional firearms and a barrage of recent laws has made it easier than ever for ordinary citizens to carry them in public places, including bars, parks, and schools.

Attempts by armed citizens to stop shooters are rare. At least two such attempts in recent years ended badly, with the would-be good guys gravely wounded or killed. Meanwhile, the five cases most commonly cited as instances of regular folks stopping massacres fall apart under scrutiny: Either they didn't involve ordinary citizens taking action--those who intervened were actually cops, trained security officers, or military personnel--or the citizens took action after the shooting rampages appeared to have already ended. (Or in some cases, both.)

Gun rights die-hards claim the Portland mall shooter saw an armed good guy--who ran for cover instead of firing--and promptly shot himself dead. Obviously.

Comment Re:Can you liberals please wake the fuck up? (Score 1) 965

I have to say, this is a rather fair point...

Fighting in a war zone is one thing, going into restaurants in the middle of Paris and opening up with automatic AK-47s into civilians eating dinner is quite another.

Would you agree that bombing a hospital in Gaza is just as unacceptable as opening up with automatic AK-47s in a Paris restaurant?

Comment Re:Moslems are killing you guys and ... (Score 1) 965

you're closing your eyes to the true depth of the islamic terrorism problem if you insist on seeing it as a bunch of jerks instead of how it really is, a cultural and political movement.

Analogy time. Let's say there's a fraternity on campus known as the rapey fraternity. The leaders encourage and endorse date rape. Members of the fraternity cheer on social media whenever date rape is reported in the media. You know a guy in the fraternity who is a very active participant. Goes to all the meetings, goes to all the parties, wears the fraternity sweatshirts around campus, all that stuff. You don't know him personally, but isn't it reasonable to be wary of this guy? would you want your sister or daughter dating this guy?

Many strains of fundamentalist islam are like this rapey fraternity. Hate and violence are so infused into the core of the sect, and infused into the religious teachings themselves, that I think if you are american or european it's perfectly reasonable to be wary of somebody who chooses to associate themselves with this sect.

And let's not forget the Christians and Jews. They've been committing acts of terrorism and mass murder for 2500 years.

Comment Re:The liberals are in fact aiding the moslems ! (Score 4, Insightful) 965

You're forgetting to condemn the millions of people amongst who the live, and who allow them to continue to operate, be funded, preach hate and recruit. The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.

That was Osama bin Laden's argument for justifying his attack on the World Trade Center. He felt that the hundreds of millions of Americans who allowed the CIA and Israelis to operate, fund, preach hate and recruit against Lebanon and the Arab world were giving their tacit approval to the killing of muslims.

When's the last time you've condemned Western human rights violations against muslims and Arabs?

Like the more than 150,000 Iraqis killed during Bush's invasion?

"Spock, did you see the looks on their faces?" "Yes, Captain, a sort of vacant contentment."