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Comment: Re:Evidence based, reasoned arguments don't work (Score 1) 674

by joebagodonuts (#49108979) Attached to: Bill Nye Disses "Regular" Software Writers' Science Knowledge
I don't believe that to be true. Anytime I've had a discussion -not online, but a real-life face-to-face discussion - I've been able to make my case and it is often well received. Not 100% of the time, but I'm not right 100% of the time, either. Online? well, exaggeration seems the rule, more often than not. ;) For me, the key is this: If I want others to listen and respect my views, I've found it most helpful to listen and respect them and theirs.

Comment: Context matters (Score 4, Insightful) 674

by joebagodonuts (#49108915) Attached to: Bill Nye Disses "Regular" Software Writers' Science Knowledge
Bill Nye is an entertainer. Just because he used to play a character called "The Science Guy", that doesn't give him credibility on all matters pertaining to science. (yes I know he has an engineering degree-but that's a long time ago. He hasn't been paid as an engineer in decades) His opinion carries the same weight I would give to any entertainer's

Comment: Re:News For Nerds (Score 3, Insightful) 406

by joebagodonuts (#45257349) Attached to: A Look at the Koch Brothers Dark-Money Network
Unfortunately, the ideal utopia where people "learn to resist" doesn't seem to exist. It sounds good, but I don't know of consistently demonstrated examples showing how people can learn such a skill and then execute that skill on a regular basis.

Before we can make the world we want, we need to be honest with ourselves about the world (and people) as it is (they are)

Comment: Re:problem with these programs (Score 1) 330

by joebagodonuts (#44561087) Attached to: The Science of 12-Step Programs
I'm often both amazed and confused, but not on this topic. I meant what I said. "Founding principal" - look in chapter 4.

Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God.

When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you

(emphasis mine).

I've been to many meetings (my rough estimate is 3042) and at nearly all of those we refuse to allow the Lord's prayer. The whole group exercises that tradition 2 you referred to and determines that we don't want to use it since it is tied to Christianity. We don't really give much consideration to an individual's expressed faith. (or lack thereof)

To be fair, there is wide variation across the whole of the fellowship, so as always YMMV

Comment: Re:problem with these programs (Score 1) 330

by joebagodonuts (#44549045) Attached to: The Science of 12-Step Programs

There has always been a large contingent within (and outside of) the AA fellowship that hoped AA would be a tool to get us heathens back into the church. The woman who introduced the founders was one such person, and there have been many throughout the history of the fellowship.

But it hasn't worked, despite the seeming evidence. It is possible, even easy, to attend meetings and practice the program without having to indulge in thinly disguised Christianity. FWIW, it's also possible to be both an Atheist and an AA member.

The often overlooked key is to let each member define what the word "God" means. Its a founding principle

Time to take stock. Go home with some office supplies.

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