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Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 1) 784

by iamgnat (#48832109) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

You are not putting a bullet in any CPS agent's head because you would immediately lose your children for the rest of your life, and CPS knows this!

Enough with the chest-puffing.

You are correct that doing such a thing wouldn't solve the problem and would indeed make it phenomenally worse, but being a parent and dealing with someone threatening your child's best interests and well being can make you do stupid things that you wouldn't otherwise do if you could think about it logically.

Personally I love shooting, but I choose not to own guns because I'm not so sure I couldn't be pushed to use it in the wrong situation. My experience with CPS is one of those times I can look back and be thankful I continue to make that choice. That isn't to say I would have actually done it, but I'm just glad the temptation wasn't there to begin with.

Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 2) 784

by iamgnat (#48831927) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

I'm glad you had a decent experience that didn't turn into a nightmare. That probably has more to do with your son not actually living with his bio-dad (based on your description) than anything else. There are also (I have to believe anyway for the sake of my sanity) cases daily where they really need to be involved and they actually have a good outcome on the child's life.

I've had plenty of interactions with cops over the years for various reasons and I've found the majority to be nice people that really are out to help, but look at the overall state of the police forces in this country right now.

Things may not be as bleak as those of us that have suffered false/bad accusations and antagonistic case workers make it seem, but much like issues with the police there is obviously a common thread that is wide spread enough to be something that you can't just disregard.

Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 5, Informative) 784

by iamgnat (#48831811) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

Uh huh. CPS intervened because you were on a different level of the house. They just happened to by spying on you?

These stories you guys always bring up in these articles are ridiculous. CPS isn't out to "get you". They are understaffed. TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILDREN.

My guess is that they busted you for something.

I don't know about tompaulco's assertions since they didn't include the state in question, but it's not specifically about them being "out to get you". It's about them taking the view that Mandatory Reporters are always correct and that the parents can't be trusted. Then you throw in the valid cases that they deal with which have to eat at them and understaffing. Finally you add in judges that should be involved to question the claims and decide if removing the child is really in the best interests of said child, but they too frequently see the worst of the worst and just go with what they are told without really questioning.

In my case my wife wanted to have a natural birth and didn't want to do it in a hospital, but at 2 weeks late and a 14.5" head the likelihood of a good outcome outside a hospital would have been low. She was finally convinced about a month before the due date to deliver in the hospital, but then she had to be induced after he was 2 weeks late. Unfortunately she was an unlucky one and got the rare side effect from the induction drugs that actually make the contractions much worse to deal with. In the middle of all that she started demanding to go home and screaming about how "she didn't want this" (how the delivery was happening). I argued with her about the stupidity of trying to leave in that situation. Explicatives were used judiciously. Ultimately we did stay and she had to have a c-section which she really didn't want.

The Nurse reported it to CPS as "the mother said she does not want the child and the father supports her".

4 hours later CPS from the county the hospital was in showed up and started asking questions. She actually seemed pretty decent from what I recall. 2 hours after that the bitch from the county we live in showed up and the 3rd sentence out of her mouth was "I'm here to review if we should take custody of your son". We had a 30 minute conversation where it was obvious that she didn't give a damn what I had to say and ended with "your son will not be allowed to leave the hospital without my approval". I was lucky that my parents had that friend who guided us through getting through that weekend so we could actually take our son home when my wife was discharged. We also got the "sign this action plan or we'll take your son" line as well.

Fast forward to his 2nd week when we are scheduled to have our home inspection. At the advise of our lawyer we had a 3rd party scheduled to be present as a witness. The visit is scheduled for 11am. Our witness gave up and went back to work at 1pm when she had still not showed up or returned any of my phone calls. At 1:30 just after my wife gets in the shower and my son has fallen asleep she finally shows up and bangs on my door until I answer it to find she has a Sheriff in tow. I explain that she is 2.5 hours late, my wife is in the shower, and our witness has already left due to her tardiness so we need to reschedule it. I also stated that the Sheriff was not part of the planned interview and I didn't not wish to have him in my home. Her response was that I either let them in now or she would call the judge to get an order to remove my son. She also refused to let me film the visit and said if I continued with these "delaying tactics" she would have my son removed from the home. To the Sheriff's credit I could see how appalling he found her actions written all over his face.

Ultimately I had no choice but to let them in and walk around.

I count us lucky that she ultimately decided to drop the case a month later. The whole experience was ridiculous and overly antagonistic because she was young and over zealous.

I think the Nurse that started this all is an idiot that needs to never "help" people again, but I get that she had to report what she thinks she witnessed. I get that CPS needs to make sure the child will be safe and well cared for and I don't think they were "out to get me". What I think is that there was a dire lack of common sense and reason applied to the situation and constantly threatening to take the child is not the appropriate response before there is actual evidence of danger to the child.

Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 3, Informative) 784

by iamgnat (#48830561) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

CPS isn't authorized to take children in a non-emergency situation without a warrant. The 9th circuit ruled it is a violation of the 14th amendment see ROGERS v. COUNTY OF SAN JOAQUIN.

Yes, but much like the secret courts that approval NSA/FBI/CIA spying on citizens the court is a rubber stamp. The CPS worker simply appears in front of a judge (which they can get done outside of court hours) and makes the recommendation to remove your child and the judge follows that recommendation. You don't get to be there or even have a representative. In a few short hours your family is destroyed and will never be the same again even if it does eventually get to be whole again.

Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 2) 784

by iamgnat (#48830149) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

First step, move to another state once the CPS scum decided to gun for you

We did actually look at that as we did have a few other places we could have gone pretty easily. The advise of our lawyer and my parents friend was not to do that as most states are very accommodating to each other for CPS cases and "running" often makes it worse (e.g. CPS in the new state will go directly to the judge to take custody).

Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 4, Interesting) 784

by iamgnat (#48829941) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

CPS doesn't beat the shit out of you, kill you and then say it was your own fault.

You are obviously someone that has never had the threat of having your hours old son taken from you on the word of a Nurse that heard something said out of context by a woman in the midst of a delivery that was not going as desired/expected and then misreported the whole thing. Then to have to start dealing with all of that when you haven't slept in 40 hours and your wife is still under the effects of the anesthesia and pain killers from her emergency c-section. I quite literally laughed at the CPS person due to the absurdity of it all and it took awhile to sink in how serious the situation was.

In the other case that I mentioned, just what type of bond do you think that kid is going to have with it's parents that it barely saw for the first two years of it's life. What long term impacts is that going to have on the kid's life and relationship with it's parents? What about the long term impact to the parents?

I'll take a beating or being killed by cops any day as there is at least a chance (however slim that might be) of justice. With CPS there is only misery if you don't play along (not that playing along is a treat) and there is zero recourse.

Sadly by this going public I expect CPS to be up in this family's affairs for years to come. They may not actually lose the children, but that won't negate the pain and frustration of having to deal with CPS with "if you don't do this, we'll take the children" being their goto response for any question.

Comment: Re:Biased Institutions FTW (Score 2) 784

by iamgnat (#48829433) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

In their defense, I want them to do their due diligence whenever they get a report. A lot of people would be pissed at the police and at CPS if they got called in and missed neglect or abuse. But it's quite obvious in this case that they went way overboard, and they still are.

The problem is in many cases they don't do any due diligence. They blindly accept whatever a Mandatory Reporter (Teacher/Doctor/Nurse/etc..) tells them regardless of how patently false or idiotic the report is. By all means they should follow up, but after my own experience I've talked to others that have crossed CPS' path and the stories are all similar to this one. Something that should not have been an issue got CPS involved and CPS immediately took an adversarial path and threatened to take the kid(s) even before any "investigation" could be done.

Comment: Re:The Dangers of the World (Score 5, Informative) 784

by iamgnat (#48829269) Attached to: Parents Investigated For Neglect For Letting Kids Walk Home Alone

In the interests of discussing facts rather than emotional reactions, does anyone know:

(a) whether the CPS worker was actually authorised to act in that way (i.e., following official procedures and lawfully permitted)

(b) what legal weight the parents signing such an agreement in that situation would have had, and

(c) whether the CPS worker, or someone they immediately contacted, would have had the legal authority to immediately remove the children forcibly in that situation if the parents had refused to sign?

I unfortunately had a run in with CPS when my son was born and while they don't have the power to take them on the spot, what they recommend to the judge is what happens. While going through that we hired a lawyer and luckily my parents were friends with an ex-CPS worker from one of the counties involved (I had two counties to deal with in this case) who moved in down the street from them. Basically whatever a Nurse/Doctor/Cop/Teacher/etc.. says is taken as gospel in these cases and the parents are treated as villains regardless of a lack of evidence (or even basic common sense regarding the accusation).

The lawyer we hired was dealing with another case almost identical to ours. They unfortunately didn't control their gut reactions to these injustices (and it is very difficult when they are threatening your family like that) and the 2 month old child was removed from their home. 2 years later they were finally getting custody back again.

Both the lawyer and ex-CPS guy also said that even after the issue is "settled" you don't want to try to go after them as they will find some reason to re-open the case or find an excuse to start a new one. People complain about the abuse of power and unaccountability from Cops, but they really don't hold a candle to CPS.

Comment: Re:No shit, (Score 3, Interesting) 204

by iamgnat (#48379209) Attached to: Your Incompetent Boss Is Making You Unhappy

Studying why people are unhappy in their jobs is worthwhile so that people can learn how to find jobs that they are happier in as happier workers tend to be more productive.

I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion though. Personally I find that my best managers were the ones that had little or no technical ability in the realm of what their staff did. They also happened to be the ones that actually understood the role of a manager and managed the team/projects on the whole rather than trying to get into the details. All the "knowledgeable" managers I've had fall into two equally bad (to me) categories. The first really doesn't know as much as they think and make life more difficult by injecting bad or wrong information into the process which (at best) drags things out or (at worst) makes the whole team look like a bunch of idiots that can't get their stories straight. The other group is those that actually do know their stuff, but they fall back to just doing it themselves rather than managing their team to get things done.

The real key is that the staff has to trust the manager to stay out of the low level details and the manager has to trust his staff to actually be competent at their jobs (and if not, do something proactive about it). Without the trust and everyone sticking to their actual role it all falls apart and people are miserable.

Comment: Re:We can thank corporate America (Score 1) 282

by iamgnat (#47389423) Attached to: Ask Slashdot: How Often Should You Change Jobs?

My first real job saw me grow through the company over 14 years. Since then I've done a 2 year contracting position and a 3 year stint at a 3rd company. I will personally always keep an open ear in case that "perfect" job comes along, but I go into any new position with the intention of being there long term (ideally the rest of my career). My average at given position is about 2.75 years which seems to appeal to prospective employers as they see a lot of resumes with 6-12 month jobs and they get concerned about their ROI.

I'm now looking at a new position in a different company where the SVP has been there for 21 years and the Lead that I'd be working with has been there 15 years. As a prospective employee I find that a bonus as it suggests that A) the company is worth being at long term and B) it's probably not a meat grinder.

Comment: Re:This is awesome (Score 1) 217

by iamgnat (#47182037) Attached to: New OpenSSL Man-in-the-Middle Flaw Affects All Clients

Your argument that "Closed source bugs are found in never years" is the definition of "quickly" most everyone would call strange.

I made no such argument and I made no argument for closed source. My argument was/is purely against the myth of OSS being better/safer than closed source just by the virtue that it can be looked at. That isn't true both because smart people miss bugs (especially they they occur due to separate parts of a large project interacting with each other) all the time and it makes the assumption that people are actively looking at it for flaws.

What is true is that the end user has the ability to review it themselves, fix it if they find problems, and support/modify it beyond what the developer(s) does as they see fit. OSS is a good thing and it has many advantages over closed options, but people trying to spread the "belief" that OSS is somehow safer is no better than those that used to talk about how Macs were more secure than any other platform.

Comment: Re:This is awesome (Score 1) 217

by iamgnat (#47181911) Attached to: New OpenSSL Man-in-the-Middle Flaw Affects All Clients

If you've been following OpenSSL Heartbleed coverage, you know that the project has only had one full-time developer working on it. Since Heartbleed (a recent discovery, you'll recall) they've discovered more holes to close such as this one. I'd call less than two months since more eyes started staring at OpenSSL "quickly."

Are you seriously arguing that this one developer is the only person that ever looked at the code? That goes counter to your original implied assertion that because it's OSS then "many skilled eyes DO converge on the code". You can't have it both ways, either there are lots of people looking at the code or there aren't.

How many people actually looked at the code is irrelevant though. Your original assertion was that OSS is somehow magically safer/better because "many skilled eyes" look at it. The reality, however, is that in complex projects there will always be bugs that even the most skilled will miss unless they know exactly what they are looking for. The source being open or closed makes no difference in that regard.

Comment: Re:This is awesome (Score 5, Insightful) 217

by iamgnat (#47172133) Attached to: New OpenSSL Man-in-the-Middle Flaw Affects All Clients

open source has one strength, it's that when many skilled eyes DO converge on the code it can be tested and fixed far more quickly

Did you even read the summary? They believe that this flaw has existed since 1998. You have a very strange definition of "quickly" if 16 years falls into that category.

I'm all for OSS, but people like you that continue to trot out this tripe aren't helping it. The benefit isn't that there all these mythical "skilled eyes" looking at the code, it's that you can look at the code.

The trouble with the rat-race is that even if you win, you're still a rat. -- Lily Tomlin