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Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47563219) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

There was no fight for an enemy nation in Odessa. There were anti-Maidan protesters.

Who wanted to secede and join Russia.

Except that it was not even proven that it was Yanukovich who used the snipers. And he wasn't indiscriminately shelling civilians in western Ukraine either. I have a coworker from Ukraine, his extended family in Donetsk (a young woman with two children) was killed by Ukrainian artillery.

That's tragic but blame the people who started the war.

What invasion are you talking about? There is a civil war going on. Irregulars on one side, quickly legalized former irregulars on the other side. Ukraine would never stand a chance against an actual invasion from Russia. Compare that to the utterly professional and practically bloodless annexion of Crimea. And this is why Ukrainian army doesn't even try to do anything about that, they know they don't stand a chance. Shelling cities, on the other hand, is easy. Especially these in Eastern Ukraine - Galicians don't consider Eastern Ukrainians to be real Ukrainians, even though they themselves were ousted from Poland when ethnic Poles were thrown out of Western Ukraine after WW2. They don't even speak the same language - a mix of Ukrainian and Polish by the Galicians, Surzhik by Eastern Ukrainian.

Russia is promoting, recruiting, and supplying the rebels. Russian soldiers are shelling across the border. It's not official Russian troops in Ukraine but it's sure as hell a Russian invasion.

Svoboda was recognized as a neo-nazi party by basically every European country. And even though this party was in minority in the last elections, they suddenly have received a lot of interesting positions after Maidan because their armed thugs helped the coup. And what followed were banning oppositional parties, censorship of media and other nice things that typically follow after a fascist coup.

Everything except the fascism of course.

An invasion has to happen first. Then one regular army can fight another regular army.

Did you miss Crimea? The floods of Russians streaming across the border being equipped by the Russian government.

And you're still dodging the question. Tens of thousands of foreign fighters stream across your border, occupy your cities, and claim them as an independent state.

What do you do?

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47556697) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

Also, East Ukraine is full of ethnic Russians, shocking, I know.

I wasn't talking about ethnicity.

Bullshit, There was all of no hesitation on the part of Kyiv, regarding beginning an offensive in Donetsk and Luhansk. There was no hesitation involved in the shelling of civilian areas.

Except the months it took to actually do it.

Hyperbole, and it's their choice that the people of Donetsk and Luhansk made themselves. Don't you find it even slightly hypocritical that you can cry 'fascist' on one hand, but on the other, completely suppress the idea that a referendum took place?

I just held another referendum in my livingroom and the people of Donetsk and Luhansk just voted 93.425% that you're full of BS.

The think I find hilarious is that there's manufactured "proof" of Russian artillery fire, and satellite images showing troop buildups that don't exist, but no satellite imagery showing Russia moving BUK systems into Donetsk (because let's face it, neither Russia nor the separatists have anything to gain by downing passenger liners), it makes no sense for Kyiv to have moved SAM systems into Donetsk as the separatists have no air support. How'd the BUK system get there? Are we pretending that Kyiv has nothing to gain from making it look like Russia is downing airliners, they're desperate.

Yeah, the idea of Russian artillery fire is ridiculous.

And you're ignoring the obvious that the separatists have been downing planes for weeks.

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47556609) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

You can see in numerous youtube videos that while some of the crowd helped the people out, others happily continued to throw incendiaries into the windows. Majority my arse.

Again, if you fight for an enemy nation in a war expect people are going to be angry at you.

Imagine that Yanukovich had done the same to the maidan thugs, what the current national guard does to civilists in Donetsk. For all his faults he was a saint in comparison.

Yanokovych employed snipers against massive peaceful protests, they occupied buildings but they also had hundreds of thousands of people. The pro-Russians have never had a tenth as many.

And you can't compare Yanoyovych's actions to a defence from an actual invasion.

Actual murderous criminals and fascists already own the majority of the country. What difference would it make?

a) There's nothing criminal or fascist about the current rulers.

b) You dodged the question. Tell me what they should have done in response to an invasion that you wouldn't consider "criminal" or "fascist".

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47555355) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

Sheer primitive tribalism. The guys who have burned people alive in Odessa had a lot of fun doing it. And they were cheered at by several local politicians.

a) No one knows how the fire started, both sides were throwing molotov cocktails, and the majority of the crowd attempted to help evacuate the building.

b) Ally yourself with an enemy nation who has just invaded and annexed part of the country, take over buildings by force, then kill some peaceful protesters. You really expect to get a kind response?

Considering what happened further east where the separatists weren't kicked out I don't imagine many Odessans with the separatists were left there.

Well, shelling civilians and arming neo-faschist thugs surely counts for murderous. And as for repressive, they banned an oppositional party few days ago.

What's your alternate suggestion? They simply hand over half the country to actual murderous criminals and fascists?

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47554483) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

I'm no Putin apologist; I was granted political asylum by the USA some decades ago when I fled communist oppression with my family.

That being said, you're oversimplifying a sadly complex situation which I myself don't completely understand. Don't expect a few minutes of reading to clear things up, either. Some things to keep in mind:

- A large ethnically-Russian population has existed in Ukraine for many years, many decades. Most "Russians" in Ukraine are not Russian commandos that snuck across the border in the past year, but instead are normal people who been living happily in Ukraine for their entire lives.

I was referring to Russian citizens, not ethnic Russians. My understanding is the ethnic Russians, though not well disposed towards Kiev, generally want nothing to do with the separatists.

- Most of these ethnically-Russian Ukrainians do identify closely with Russia and feel that their own interests would be best served by a Ukraine that seeks closer ties with Russia, not the EU.

True, this is a question that can be settled through democratic means.

- The local component to this 'seperatist movement' does indeed contain local criminals looking to cash in, but this should not excessively taint the legitimacy of the movement.

I don't think the movement has any legitimacy. Even in Donetsk they could only ever rally a couple thousand out of a city of over a million. The only reason there's a separatist movement is because of the thousands of armed fighters who entered the country.

- Cossacks are not Russians. They're Cossacks. Don't slander them by associating them with the Putin regime.

I was referring to the Russian paramilitary organizations, though was maybe too broad since they're only a portion.

That being said, fuck Putin and the crumbling Russia he rode in on.

I heartily agree.

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47547139) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

1- Reports from these cities say the Ukrainian army is bohttp://news.slashdot.org/story/14/07/27/208226/satellite-images-show-russians-shelling-ukraine#mbing indiscriminately in various neighborhoods. These actions has been consistent have been going on for at least 2 months. They are not targeting the rebels, since for the most part, they cannot pinpoint their positions. So they blindly bomb whatever houses/infrastructures to inflict maximum destruction/casualties. They must have learned that from the Anglo-Saxons. Some of today's results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

And what's your explanation for why the Ukrainians would want to inflict civilian casualties?

>2- Your assertion about separatists being Russians who illegally entered Ukraine is a blatant lie. Most defenders are locals who took up arms to defend their families and land against a murderous and repressive government. Plenty of proof of that.

Bullshit. There was nothing murderous or repressive about the government, they had just thrown out a corrupt president and the current president is a Russian speaker who used to belong to the same party!

Precise estimates on the fighter composition are tricky but there is very significant Russian and non-Ukrainian component.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/...
http://www.theatlantic.com/int...

Even the DPR leaders have been whining all along about locals not doing enough to fight.

3- Your comment about Russia is really sad and says a lot about the level of propaganda in the western media. Had Putin not been so moderate, your sorry ass might have been vaporized by now. But you're too brainwashed to realize what you're doing.

Sure Putin is a moderate, and the passengers of MH17 were slightly inconvenienced.

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 3, Informative) 560

by quantaman (#47546815) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

Funny that they illustrate this report with the actual shelling of the city of Gorlovka by the Ukrainian army. Yeah, actual civilians being bombed by their US sponsored government to the complete indifference of the western media. I guess those reporters can't be bothered to point that out.

Yeah, the Ukrainian military should instead write a kind letter asking the separatists to go back to Russia.

Wow, so you think it's alright to bomb civilians once they're been labeled 'separatists'. One can justify pretty much any atrocities with your thinking.

It's always amusing how the Putin apologists bend over to misinterpret sentences.

The civilians are not separatists, the separatists are Russians who illegally entered Ukraine, with weapons, and took control of several cities. The local component to this 'separatist movement' is largely comprised of local criminals looking to cash in.

The intention is quite obviously not to bomb civilians, but the armed Russians who are occupying the city. The Russians set up bases in residential areas and on top of apartment buildings precisely because they know the Ukrainians are reluctant to fire at their own citizens.

The civilian deaths that result from Ukrainian attempts to attack the separatists is tragic, but arguably less tragic than leaving the civilians of Donetsk and Luhansk to live under a fascist autocracy run by Russian cossasks and local criminals.

You might wonder that I used the word 'fascist' since the Russians are so fond of using it to describe the Ukrainians. I use it because in this case it is accurate, I can't think of a country today that could be better described as fascist than Putin's Russia. That you would defend such an enterprise then seek to blame the victims for the resulting human toll is disgusting beyond words.

Comment: Russian army or Russian rebels? (Score 2) 560

by quantaman (#47546547) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

The summary says "Russian forces" which is generally assumed to mean official troops, but I think it's far more likely to be Russian rebels firing on Ukraine from Russia.

Putin has no need to involve official Russian troops when there are more than enough "volunteers" willing to carry out the battle. Russia gives them a few big guns and they keep them safe on the Russian side of the border so the Ukrainians can't fight back. The bonus is that by keeping the Ukrainians away from the border they can keep it open and continue the flow of troops and arms from Russia.

Comment: Re:Bombing a city is ok ? (Score 1) 560

by quantaman (#47546483) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

Funny that they illustrate this report with the actual shelling of the city of Gorlovka by the Ukrainian army. Yeah, actual civilians being bombed by their US sponsored government to the complete indifference of the western media. I guess those reporters can't be bothered to point that out.

Yeah, the Ukrainian military should instead write a kind letter asking the separatists to go back to Russia.

Comment: Re:Weakest US President ever (Score 0) 560

by quantaman (#47546465) Attached to: Satellite Images Show Russians Shelling Ukraine

So what are they going to do about it? Give another speech about how Russia is acting against its own interest?

Gaza can send thousands of rockets targeting Iraeli citizens and they won't even say a word.
Iran can make nuclear weapons and they won't even say a word.
Russia can take over Crimea and they get bashed harshly with... a speech.
ISIS can take over Iraq and kill thousands and they won't say a word.
Any country depending on the US for support is lost and left to fend for themselves.

However, if you DARE mention the government should cut a dime of spending you will be labled a terrorist and the IRS, and DOJ will be used illegally to harrass you and oppress you. This administration is far harsher on peaceful critics of its policies than it is on genocide or mass killings of allies.

What a joke.

Multiple scathing criticisms but not a single suggestion of a specific action you'd do different.

Are you a republican congressman or senator?

Comment: More on MA (Score 1) 157

by fyngyrz (#47539203) Attached to: Soccer Superstar Plays With Very Low Brain Activity

That translated into martial arts is roughly the equivalent of a 4th DAN, but for that you need longer due to 'regulations regarding examinations', waiting periods between 2 examinations.

Depends on the martial art. The most modern practice recognizes natural talent while incorporating considerable traditional technique; I assure you, everyone does not walk into their first day of training on an equal basis -- I've been teaching for decades and I think I've seen about every level of beginner skill there is. Some people are simply gifted. Certainly from there on in we see the difference between the shows-up-once-a-week and the person who seems to be there every hour they can possibly manage.

Also, more on topic, I can definitely assure anyone who is curious that you're not doing high level thinking when executing advanced martial arts techniques.

All you really need to do to understand this is think about bike riding. When you learn, you learn, you think like crazy. Which does you very little good. But eventually, you internalize the process (that's what I call it, anyway) and you can do it while carrying on a conversation with someone else, paying almost no attention at all to the activity of riding the bike. Those near-instant balance corrections, the precise amount of handlebar control and lean for cornering, all of that comes from "underneath." Same thing for advanced MA.

That whole business about finding your calm center and holding it -- that's a real thing. If you start thinking under threat or pressure, your performance will drop like a stone. The best technique comes from a relaxed, centered condition, accepting of whatever comes.

Thufir's a Harkonnen now.

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