In any case, my point is that just a couple developers that have not kept their skills up to date have caused a lot of frustration for the department. The rest of us are all on board with this new way of doing things, why should we cater to the lowest common denominator? In my opinion if these guys doing want to keep their skills up to date they should be relegated to maintenance and legacy applications. We shouldn't hold the rest of the department back because two guys don't want to learn new things, one of which happens to be my manager unfortunately (but doesn't really have the authority to let me go, more like a team lead I guess). As far as I am concerned, you either get with the program or get out of the way and fortunately for me my bosses boss (the VP of IT) is on board with this so I've at least gotten my way in this case lol.