I comprehensively covered this earlier in the thread, but it's not just the drive - it's that video format support isn't exactly a guarantee,
What world do you live in that
and that USB flash drives are signficantly more expensive than a single DVD (and most 32GB flash drives are, at best, at cost parity with a single Blu-Ray disc).
And a bride paying $1500 shouldn't expect a pro to spend a few bucks on a USB drives. Especially when you can buy them in bulk and have them customized? It's whatever the customer wants and like I said before if you absolutely have to have a drive, anyone can get an external one.
Yes, external burners are basically the answer here, but the problem here is that the newer Mac Pro units seem to have quite the laundry list of requirements of external hardware as opposed to even the previous design.
My point again is that laundry list that you speak of is your list. It is not what the trend that Pros are using.
In context, MB = MacBook? I'm not sure, but I'd argue this point regardless. I worked at Staples in 2002, and that is when printers tended to be hybrid, having both parallel and USB ports. So, let's assume that 2002 was the last year that retail printers used parallel ports, and 2003 was the year of USB exclusivity on the printer.
MB = motherboards. As in many MB manufacturers still had printer ports up until the last few years. When was the last time printers were sold with printer ports. I would say a decade ago. Yet they didn't remove the port. And many of them have PS/2 connectors still even though I haven't seen one of those in about a decade.
As for dedicated duplicators, they're great, but they still need an initial burn somewhere. While I know that there are models out there will allow one or more drives to be used directly from the PC, many pros I know did the initial burn from the computer, and then a one-to-many duplication on a standalone unit. I'm not saying that that's the only way to do it, but I am saying that there's still a good reason to have just the bay available.
There is no bay in the new Mac Pro. The design has 0 bays even for a HDD drive. But again if someone needs one, they can get external like they did with floppies.
Blank CDs were $2-$4 each, but 4MB flash drives and CompactFlash cards were $40-$60 each; it was a long time before cost-per-megabyte of USB flash drives were favorable to optical media at the 650MB mark.
I think you are confusing two things here: the original iMac removed the floppy and the USB drive was the replacment for them not CD-RWs. CD-RWs were expensive and the iMac eventually had them but my point was the floppy was removed in favor of the USB drive which was way cheaper than the $40-60 that you are quoting here.
That problem isn't nearly as much of a consideration when a trio of 4TB hard disks can be used as a RAID5 internally.
And how many pros do you know will build and setup a RAID 5 machine as opposed to buying a RAID enclosure that requires little configuration. We are talking creative pros that use a Mac Pro not IT pros.
Yes, archiving will need to be done in some form on a somewhat regular basis, but not on a per-project schedule. You're right that it doesn't lend itself to collaboration well, but collaboration isn't always an endgame, either.
For a Pixar animator that will use a Mac Pro, projects are the normal. For independent pros, moving files around is quite normal.
External hard drives are a bit better of a bargain in those cases, but I'll be honest that I have no idea as to how well Apple supports RAID5 on a set of USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt disks.
Apple doesn't. That's the point of a RAID enclosure: the computers that connect to it don't have to worry about which RAID configuration is being used. People who use Mac Pros don't care what RAID system is being used either.
Earlier, you were suggesting exactly that. Moreover, code gets big, but video gets bigger, faster. I'm sure that many coding projects end up being tens of gigabytes' worth of code and assets, but most of the things I see on Github are not.
I was not suggesting it. You simply misunderstood what I was saying then and you are misunderstanding what I'm saying now. I'm saying that large video projects that in collaboration settings (like Pixar) are checked out, edited, and checked in. Like code. But I am not talking about code when I talk about the Mac Pro. Do some people code with them? Sure but the space issue is for video not code.
I'm talking about the kind of scenario where 8-12TB of available storage is a practical amount to have. Across Apple's product line, external drives seem to be becoming an ever more necessary add-on purchase, while the number of ports into which to plug them is dwindling.
Again this is what a RAID enclosure is for. Also 8-12TB is not workspace storage; it's archival storage.
The original statement made was: "the need to have personal drives only comes from a small percentage of pros".
And in the context of what I said, they don't store everything on their personal computers anymore. They use dedicated servers and external storage for that.
My rebuttal was that if higher amounts of storage weren't that big of a deal to the Apple market, then Apple wouldn't have several square feet of shelf space dedicated to external storage devices, and Promise and friends wouldn't be selling Thunderbolt RAID arrays for a thousand bucks a pop.
Again, the trend is that Pros have been buying these things for years even when the Mac Pro was upgradeable. So Apple seeing this removed the requirement from the new Mac Pro.
256GB of storage is plenty for the Apple users who spend most of their time on Facebook and iTunes and iPhoto, but those are not the users to whom the Mac Pro is marketed.
Again workspace storage != archival storage.
Those for whom the Mac Pro is marketed, should not, in my opinion, be relegated to having to spend several hundred dollars on external storage solutions when PCs at 1/5th the price pack a terabyte as standard equipment with room to grow.
You are aware that the entry level Mac Pro starts at $2K each. And always has been expensive. The high end can run up to $6K. The market that you speak of is spending thousands of dollars for computing power. They will spend hundreds for external storage and for backups. They are pros.
Majority of people I know still use CD'r for their in car music. Sure everyone has a phone but most don't won't more wires all over the place charging the phone while the music is playing through their phone.
If wires are the problem, that's why Bluetooth was invented. Most people I know ditched the CD long ago. Also if people really, really need a CD, they can get an external burner. For pros that will be using a Mac Pro, I don't seem them needing an internal burner. For me as a consumer, my last 3 computers didn't have an internal one and I haven't really missed it.
There are no more good mp3' players out there and not everyone buys a new car every year just to keep up with the latest media devices.
My car is over 5 years old. You can connect to a MP3 device 3 different ways. Bluetooth, stereo jack, or direct USB. And it was a factory stereo. Newer cars have more integration than that as I observed renting one recently.
Wedding and event videos fall squarely in this category. No bride will be okay with spending $1,500 for a Vimeo link.
And a bride can't use a USB drive (which hold much more than a DVD and can be copies far easier)? If the requirement is that they must have a DVD, a Pro can get a USB/Firewire/TB one.
Just because we don't burn mix CDs anymore or use them for backup devices doesn't mean that the optical drive is dead. It's a niche, but it's not dead.
I never said that there was absolutely ZERO need to use discs. I said most people don't use them these days including pros. So why include it? I saw MBs with printer ports more than a decade after you could buy a printer than needed that port. Also lots of them have PS/2 connectors still.
For Pros that do need a burner tend to use more professional ones than you can get in a computer. Dedicated duplicators are more common with pros than a computer burner.
...and Apple was rather widely panned for doing so at the time. This was in large part due to the dearth of an alternative storage medium being included - you were either getting files around with a 56K modem, a USB ZIP drive, a USB Floppy drive, or VERY expensive 16MB flash drives that, in many cases, had slower write speeds than actual floppy disks. Floppies were passe, no doubt, but Apple should have been putting CD-RW drives in the iMac long before they actually did.
I don't know when you were around computers but Apple removed the floppy with the first iMac. And it had a CD-ROM as most other computers. It was years before CD-RWs much less blank discs were affordable. USB sticks were then becoming the standard for replacing floppies. Maybe on PC they lagged behind for years as it took PC manufacturers a while to embrace USB.
You also need storage space. HD video, art assets, high resolution multitrack audio projects, and CAD drawings aren't exactly compact forms of data, y'know.
And what stops you from using an expandable RAID network drive from a Mac Pro? Nothing. The problem with using the computer as the storage space is that you will constantly run out of physical space quickly.. And it does not lend itself for collaboration well.
That's a rather broad brush to paint with, especially since disk I/O over the LAN starts hitting a ceiling pretty quick. This would be easier to swallow if there were a PCI Express slot to add a 10GigE/Fiber/Infiniband card, but they did away with that, too.
That's why you don't run the files from the network. You bring them to your machine and use the PCIe SSDs as your workspace which is many times faster. Then you check them back into the network. Just like code. As for PCIe slot, Thunderbolt encompasses PCIe and USB and video.
That number is so small that there's an insignificant market for storage devices that can connect to them, right?
I assume by this statement you missed the point completely. I never said that no Pro ever needs storage. I said that for Pros (like a Pixar animator), they don't archive their work files on their personal workstations. They check out a file, bring onto their machines, then check it back in when they are done.
And it makes more sense for Apple to make them an online-only product rather than waste shelf space on them in the store, right?
I also never said that online was the only option. That is your lack of understanding. I said "network" meaning corporate or local network. Many companies invest in things like RAID servers. And individuals can buy smaller versions of these.
I'm going to take it that you don't actually use a workstation much less a recent computer.
Let's start with OOD which I assume you mean optical drive. When was the last time you used one? Most people haven't used one in years. So removing it is like when computer manufacturers removed the floppy drive. Apple was one the first; others took years to do so even when it was apparent no one used them anymore.
Now let's talk about the HDDs. Yes they removed them. If you are using a workstation, you need speed. With most professionals using networked drives for collaboration, the need to have personal drives only comes from a small percentage of pros. Since the Mac Pro is for pros and not consumers, this was an understandable choice.
Now let's talk about eSATA. It isn't a standard that Apple has ever supported. Their standards has always been FireWire or Thunderbolt.
As for "underpowerd PSU", you do understand that a workstation is not a gaming machine, right?
Part of Prenda's Law problem was that Judge Wright had written much about their operations in his Findings of Fact which is rarely overturned by higher courts as opposed to the Findings of Law which can be scrutinized by higher courts. The court's first question to Voelker expressly asked that for the appeal court to rule in his client's favor they would have to find clear error in the Findings of Fact which he characteristically dodged again and again.
Morgan Pietz representing the opposing side did better on answering the Judges' questions. For example in doubling the original fine which may have crossed the line between criminal and civil, Pietz responded that deterrence is an important element of sanctions and doubling the fine was justified. Pietz also argued that a separate criminal proceeding could still be held without voiding the civil result.
Link to Original Source
You would be better off comparing the US (318 million) to all of Western Europe (397.5 million). Only that isn't a fair comparison either as Europe has a several thousand year head start on its development of infrastructure, its road system for example first started by the Roman Empire.
You had a decent argument that many countries that are socialist in nature are smaller than the US individually; however, practically all of Western Europe has socialized medicine which makes your argument somewhat moot. Second, while Europe had a much longer history than the US, you are aware that wars (like 2 World Wars) have required Europe to rebuild their infrastructure.