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Comment: Re:Make-work Project? (Score 1) 191

by The Evil Atheist (#47519391) Attached to: China Plans Particle Colliders That Would Dwarf CERN's LHC
What about Russia and all those really new former Soviet satellites? Like Ukraine? Out of all of them, only South Korea and Taiwan has experienced rapid economic growth to catch up, and that was AFTER a few decades of autocracy if not outright dictatorship to set things up properly. And Singapore is still for all intents and purposes an autocracy even after Lee Kuan Yew.

And really, the Western powers have no right to expect and force others to democratize when all the Western powers grew their power under heavily restricted democracy before opening things up.

Comment: Neil DeGrasse Tyson (Score 3, Interesting) 92

As Neil Degrasse Tyson notes, the life we do know is primarily made of, in order of proportions - hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, other. Other than helium, the order matches exactly the proportions of "normal" matter in the universe. It's not a stretch to look for life made up of the most common elements in the universe.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 1) 772

Liberals want an improved education system handed down from on-high at the level of the department of education.

Complete bollocks. That's how libertarians like to demonize liberals, but that's not the truth of the matter. Most liberals aren't happy with common core - I certainly found it ridiculous.

The main issue libertarians make a big deal of, as I say before, is having to pay taxes at all, at any level. You can look through all the comments on this article, and you'll find a dozen libertarians saying taxation is theft, with no distinction between federal taxes or state taxes.

Stop trying to claim principles for yourself that are not exclusive to you.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 1) 772

Libertarians have no issue with paying for education.

The majority comments from libertarians on all issues is "tax is theft" - indicating they don't want to pay for public education.

What libertarians want is a more scientific approach to education. 50 experiments. 50 states, competing with each other to provide the best possible education that they can for their citizens.

So do us "liberals". The difference between libertarians and liberals is libertarians don't want to pay for public schools and want them to compete for survival. We can have competition, but libertarians want to go the extra step of introducing some form of social darwinism - that for whatever reason some kids can't go to a better school, tough luck to them as though their situation is entirely in their control and therefore their own fault.

Liberals also want an improved education with room to experiment with ways of teaching. That libertarians try to claim ownership of that desire is ridiculous.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 1) 772

Here's the test - can you decline to pay the fee, and therefore to use the service? No? It's a tax.

Can you decline to use the service? Can you decline to use the economic benefits from having interstate highways? Can you decline to benefit from having clean water and safe food?

So you're saying my lunchtime sandwiches should be paid for by taxpayers rather than a user-pays fee (me buying them)? Wowsers. Socialists in America go further than I thought!

No, I'm not saying that. Try reading comprehension and maybe realize that my point was that not everything can efficiently be paid for by individual user fees.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 1) 772

You can attack any ideals with extreme examples.

Libertarianism IS an extreme ideal.

Liberty is a good ideal to strive for and that just means seeking a system of government which supports as much freedom as possible.

Here's what libertarians don't get: Just because your ideology has "liberty" in the name, does not make it the exclusive owner of the concept. Guess what? Unlike what the US right wing media try to tell you, people who are liberal ALSO want liberty and as much freedom as is SUSTAINABLE.

Libertarianism just means that people recognize that it would be better if we could just have a more free and prosperous society which paid for things based on individual free will instead of forced taxation and dictatorship. There is nothing impractical about an ideal

The impractical part is precisely that part about paying for society wide things based on individual free will. Sorry, but free will is overrated. Some things, like education and human rights are too important to be left up to free will. Children have no option but to go to school, and the South has no option but to accept integration.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 1) 772

Sweden has school choice. Fact.

Doesn't make it libertarian. Fact.

Having a choice doesn't make something libertarian. Fact.

Libertarianism having choice does not mean anything else with choice is automatically libertarian. Fact.

Trying to say Sweden's system is libertarian simply because it has choice is like trying to say

http://www.economist.com/news/...

"The system, introduced 20 years ago, allows parents to choose between municipal schools and independent schools, all financed by tax money. The aim was to increase quality by competition, but it has also led to the best students flocking to the same schools."

So here you are, arguing that STATE FUNDED schools, both municipal AND independent, are libertarian because they have choice.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. Fact.

You have a poor grasp of logic, as evidenced by your apparent failure to understand the non-exclusivity of properties of things. Fact.

You tried to argue that the choice of state funded independent schools is a libertarian system. Fact. And you say *I* don't have a clue. Good job buddy. Showing everyone that libertarianism is a pipe dream that can only work with government backing. You don't really want government money to go away. You just don't want to pay for it but are happy to take the benefits of it.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 1) 772

Projection. Unlike you, I made an argument. Which you carefully inch around without facing.

Ironic that is the very thing you do in this sentence.

I actually lived in Scandinavia and noted with approval that the school system in the country where I was at is nearly exactly what Libertarians have been proposing in this country for many decades.

You mean libertarians have been asking for a socialist education system? Libertarians have been asking for improved government funding for universities?

As to Germany? The Prussian model is where US schools started. Even the Germans have moved on and improved, while the US sticks doggedly to Fichtes baby.

You haven't even figured out what you're opposed to - the economic model or the education model. The Germans may have moved on from the Prussian education model, but the economic model for providing education is still pretty much state funding for the majority.

Really, you should educate yourself before you spout off.

I for one will make sure never to call the Scandinavian and German countries' public funded institutions "libertarian", for one. Now THAT is embarassing.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 4, Insightful) 772

typical socialist mind-rot.

Gotta love libertarian logically fallacious reasoning. Calling something a name constitutes an argument, apparently.

Here's the test - can you decline to pay the fee, and therefore to use the service? No? It's a tax.

Can you decline to use the service? Can you decline to use the economic benefits from having interstate highways? Can you decline to benefit from having clean water and safe food? Can you decline to benefit economically from a nationally enforced currency and social stability from a commonly applied law?

Actually, yes you can. You decline to use the service by leaving society. Don't like it? Tough. You can actually leave, and you won't pay taxes. So by your very own definition, they are just as much fees as any other fee.

Quality of life is not an entitlement and is only possible through joint investment from every member of society.

What is fair can only be determined by consensual transactions arrived at in a competitive environment.

Circular reasoning. By whose rules do you say that is the only possible definition of fair? Only if you buy into libertarianism do I accept those rules. I don't, so I don't.

Furthermore, what constitutes a "consensual transaction"? Under contract law, consent does not exist if made under duress. Someone who accepts a job way below minimum living standards because they are pressed to do so is under duress, yet that is what libertarians like you like to take advantage of. Or do you mean to restrict consent to the consent of the employer, and not the employee? Only consent matters for the poor put-upon employer?

Education is critically important, yes, which is exactly why we need a competitive market for it

A non-sequitur if there ever was one, and also a tautology because, again, you'd need to assume libertarianism to accept your conclusion. Why do Americans continually ignore the examples of Scandinavian and German public education, as though other people have not already figured out how to make schools valuable without introducing social darwinist forces into education?

You know the models of other countries are ALSO competition in principle, and your ilk's ideological and puritanical approach has failed compared to the competition. Like I said, your ilk's systems are self-defeating.

Comment: Re:Local testing works? (Score 4, Insightful) 772

A strict libertarian would expect infrastructure to be paid for by user fees.

Which is what we call TAXES. That's why the GP is right to call it a fantasy. It is a fantasy to think individual user fees would be an efficient way of paying for widely used necessities.

a libertarian would be extremely opposed to slavery.

Libertarians that oppose the notion of a fair minimum wage is using slavery.

I used to be very libertarian. I'm not anymore because a healthy libertarian society requires people to be intelligent and rational,

And intelligent and rationality requires education on mass, which libertarians also don't want to pay for, making libertarianism a self-defeating system.

Comment: Re:Battler (Score 2) 288

by The Evil Atheist (#47480243) Attached to: Australia Repeals Carbon Tax
I focus on Australia because that's where I live. I don't care what other countries are doing. I care about what MY country is doing. Maybe you like to live according to standards set by other people, but I'd prefer living to the standards we set ourselves.

The Australian standard is the "Aussie battler". Yet one little fight and people like you run away like pansies. If you can't live up to your own standards, you are nothing. Stop pretending you have it tough when you really don't.

Computers are unreliable, but humans are even more unreliable. Any system which depends on human reliability is unreliable. -- Gilb

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