Yeah, just like all the spying and such that went on between the US and Soviet Union - everytime someone was caught it ended up in a new world war.

Oh wait no it didn't. Just because the tools changed doesn't mean much else has. This sort of thing has gone on as long as nations have existed (if not longer), and will go on. If any of this is new or exciting for you, you need to get out more.

Enemy nations spy on each other. Friendly nations spy on each other. It's what nations do. It's not a "ZOMG this proves (nation I hate) is evil!" material.

Where'd you read that? Your comment is the first I've seen about this - and trust me I'm VERY interested in this and would love for it to be true. Considering the amount of time and effort Moz puts into their Android port, and how Dolphin even supports the Playbook, I somewhat doubt what you say but please prove me wrong.

Note I last looked for this info a week ago and couldn't find anything.

didn't mean it how you took it - but I see how what I wrote wasn't very clear. Point taken :)

Your absolutely correct I remember trying Opera Mini on I think even my Moto RAZR back in the day - I actually really like what Mini does (but haven't used it in years) All I ment was the reason Mini is allowed is because it uses a completely different technology style - one that doesn't download or execute external code using Apples words.

Your definition and mine of what a browser is are COMPLETELY different obviously. Sorry but if I write a front end and use some existing "library" as the rendering engine (AKA, the hard work / key part that makes the browser a browser and not a video game or a spreadsheet), and call myself a browser developer, that's kinda sad IMO. UI Developer? Sure! Absolutely. Browser? Nope.

Even if I say your right about your definition (which I don't think is correct), Apple is still restricting and locking out other parties from using their own browser technology. You have to use THEIRS.

So I guess your admiting that Apple restricts browsers, since you have to qualify your statement with "(and use built-in WebKit libraries)." Your iOS Rage not withstanding.

"I do not think that word means what you think it means"

Yes, I think your correct. However my point still stands in my view. Apple does explicitly prevent 3rd party browser engines on their devices. Saying that browser X is unique because it has a different front end is like saying that my Ford is just like that Ferrari cuz it's red and has windows. It's a completely different car/browser.

I'm reminded of doing help desk and someone says their computer won't work, and it's because their monitor is dead. "Oh that box down there? that's where the power goes in! is it important?"

particular browser? show me a browser that doesn't require Safari, and does rendering on device (you know, a real browser, unlike Opera Mini). Link to the Apple store please.

Show me one. Even one would be enough. I originally wrote a car analogy, but perhaps the words from an actual developer at Mozilla might help:

"I am a developer on the mobile Firefox team at Mozilla.

We currently have an iPhone App called Firefox Home, which lets you sync your Firefox tabs, history and bookmarks to your iOS device. You can get it from the app store, or read more here: http://www.mozilla.com/mobile/home/

We have no plans to release the full Firefox browser for Apple iOS devices. The current iOS SDK agreement forbids apps like Firefox that include their own compilers and interpreters:

“3.3.2 An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple’s built-in WebKit framework.”

Other browsers for iOS use the built-in WebKit libraries (like Skyfire) or do not execute any JavaScript on the device itself (like Opera Mini, which uses a proxy server). But unless Apple removes these restrictions, full browsers like Firefox are not allowed on iOS."
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/will-firefox-mobile-ever-be-released-for-ios-devices-no-blame-apple/10770

this is back in 2010, did something change? If so, show me the updated information.

ok. if other browsers are allowed then please recompile (or ask someone else to) Mozilla Firefox for iOS and submit to Apple for submission. What do you anticipate happening?

Either browsers are allowed and Mozilla can launch Firefox for iOS, or browsers are not allowed and they can't. Letting me skin a browser isn't an alternative web browser. That would be like saying IE6 didn't rule the interwebs back in the day because you could install 3rd party varients of it!

And the answer "I don't want Firefox" isn't a valid answer. We're not talking what you want to do, we're talking what you CAN do. Installing a non Safari based browser is not allowed (note Opera is the Mini version and gets around it by offloading the rendering to the cloud)

Sorry but I'm really tired of this "BUT THEY DO ALLOW IT!" comments I keep seeing on here. Show me Mozilla Firefox or Chrome or IE or something that doesn't need Safari on the phone AND does it's rendering on the phone and I'll believe it. Until then.. wrong. Apple will deny the app.

You can put Videos inside a PDF document now?!?! Please tell me your kidding.

That's like when I get those annoying "joke" emails that are in Powerpoint with loud music and walls of text. Or an Inventory system that uses a workbook in Excel.

If I was the Hulk, this is the kind of stuff that would turn me green.

Look closer. What you'll find are Opera Mini (off device rendering, no competing browser renderer installed on the iOS device) and front ends for Safari.

If someone can show me something like Firefox on iOS (Firefox Home isn't even remotely a browser) I'd be impressed.

fair enough... i can't access it either (assuming rollout over next few days / week i hope google?), so only going off 3rd party.

hopefully, for Google's sake, this is just growing pains on the first day..