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Atheism is insane

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  • by chill (34294)

    That article seems to be written by a Catholic who has as little understanding of a reasoned Atheist as he claims most Atheists do of Catholics.

    • It is hard to have a concept of a reasoned atheist when so, so many of them are completely unreasonable. Every single one of his complaints, is a reason why I reject atheism- it is hard to respect people who claim to be empirical, and then reject 99% of empirical evidence.

      • by chill (34294)

        That's because many of the reasoned Atheists aren't interested in debate. The only ones who are are the ones where their Atheism *defines* who they are.

        Just like Evangelicals or Catholics, there are a good many who are just interested in getting on with their daily lives and not engaging in frustrating, time-wasting arguments.

        This problem is exacerbated on the Internet, where every argument seems to be highly polarized. One of the consequences of anonymous speech is a dehumanizing of the participants. It is

        • From that direction the work Fr. Robert Spitzer has been doing in cosmology and quantum mechanics has much to say. But true- he *starts* with Aquinas, and works his way up from there. Oh, and if you're thinking he's just another Bible Beater, well, I don't think your average creationist agrees with his interpretation of the Book of Genesis.

          He covered all of your objections in his book _New Proofs for the Existence of God_.

          But I was thinking more about the fact that over the last 2000 years, the Church has

          • by chill (34294)

            That could be interesting. I'll add it to my list.

            Homosexual marriage isn't a threat to the species, considering only about 3.5% of the population on average is gay. The other 96.5% trump them, from a species standpoint.

            And you imply by the statement "guessing wrong" that homosexuality is a *choice*. It isn't. There was no point in these people's lives where they consciously decided "I think I'll stick to having sex with the same gender. Mmmm, boy, is that hot."

            You need to come to grips with several things.

            • I've yet to see proof of either #1 or #2. Some interesting studies that the sisters of gay men are hyper-fertile, but other than that....no, I haven't seen proof that "they are born that way", nor any absolute proof that there is a genetic advantage to *having no children*.

              This is a prime example of the secular culture being not nearly as skeptical as the conservative religions, and in fact- jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions based entirely on emotion, politics, and outright bribery of researchers.

              • by chill (34294)

                I've seen too much information on suicides, and had friends in school who took that route after not being able to handle being gay. From everything I've seen, if this was a "choice", they would have "unchosen" in a heartbeat.

                Sexual orientation isn't set at birth. That hormonal development and transformation known as puberty plays a very big role. There is more to life than just simple genetics and environment.

                And your statements about "absolute proof" are the ones that lack skepticism. I doubt anything shor

                • "That hormonal development and transformation known as puberty plays a very big role"

                  I agree- Especially with this. Personal experience during puberty plays a huge role- so huge that the biggest mistake the RCC ever made was allowing homosexuals to become priests back in the 1950s and 1960s (this wasn't official, but many seminaries encouraged it).

                  I see no way for innate homosexuality to have evolved. At all. It's almost as if saying the mule evolved instead of being the result of intelligent meddling w

                  • by chill (34294)

                    I see no way for innate homosexuality to have evolved.

                    That is your fundamental problem. YOU see no way for it to have evolved, so therefore it shouldn't have. This is the point I'm trying to make. We don't have all the answers, but that doesn't mean we simply reject a premise or stop looking.

                    Think of how much we thought we knew scientifically back in 1900, and how little it looks like today. Now realize that no matter how much we think we know now, it is nothing compared to what we will understand 100 years from now.

                    Stop saying "we don't understand it NOW so t

                    • 1900 I can see. 1920 I can't. There haven't been many significant developments in physics since then.

                      The problem isn't me converting people who aren't part of my choir. It is them converting people who aren't a part of their choir. If, as you said before, experience during puberty is part of the picture, and if, as I claim, a mutation that results in no offspring can't possibly have a genetic cause, then that 3.5% today, is not going to stay 3.5% after this fight. Especially if you start demonizing het

                    • by chill (34294)

                      You're not taking into account that throughout history homosexuals have successfully reproduced.

                      And we're talking at odds about the role of puberty. I'm not implying that improper association at the time makes someone gay. That is, hanging out with boys gets you confused to like boys, etc.

                      I'm saying it is a biochemical change, as is puberty, that goes one direction instead of another. That 3.5% of the time nature gets is "wrong", if you will. I put "wrong" in quotes because I'm not convinced there isn't som

                    • "You're not taking into account that throughout history homosexuals have successfully reproduced."

                      Really? Can you show me one case, anywhere, of homosexual only reproduction in higher mammals? Don't just limit it to humans. And don't include situations where an opposite gender was either tricked into or paid to be involved.

                      "So, no, being near gay people during puberty doesn't confuse you into being gay yourself."

                      Not being near gay people no. Being *actively recruited* by gay people, quite possibly yes.

                    • by chill (34294)

                      "homosexuals only" -- who says it needs to be "only"? And why is being paid or tricked a problem? All that counts is success rate.

                      There are noted examples of European Royalty -- English and Spanish come to mind -- who have successfully produced heirs when the kings were as gay as gay can be.

                      As for "recruitment", I don't put any stock into it as long-term successful. Gay isn't a choice.

                      Besides, I think it is more than offset by the heterosexual recruitment effort. See, for example, Marcus Bachmann. If he's n

                    • ""homosexuals only" -- who says it needs to be "only"?"

                      You claimed that throughout history, homosexuals have reproduced. To be truly homosexual, one can only have sex with the same gender. Thus your own words imply only.

                      Being paid or tricked is a problem due to the usage of human beings as slaves.

                      "There are noted examples of European Royalty -- English and Spanish come to mind -- who have successfully produced heirs when the kings were as gay as gay can be."

                      And there's a reason why the Guillotine was inve

                    • by chill (34294)

                      That's just sillyness.

                      The Guillotine was invented in 1700s France. Kings like Edward II of England, Juan II of Spain and Enrique IV of Spain were CENTURIES prior to that.

                      http://www.gaylib.com/text/igay9.htm [gaylib.com]

                      While I don't consider that link to be authoritative, it would be a good place to start.

                      Your definition of "if they reproduced, they're hetero" is a joke. It reminds me of a WKRP in Cincinnati episode where Herb was seduced by a woman who later revealed herself to have been a man when they knew each other

                    • The absolute proof is quite obvious. Two sperm or two egg do not conception make. It is your need to prove otherwise before I will accept homosexual marriage. You are the one making the extraordinary claim, it is up to you to provide the extraordinary evidence that a homosexual union can produce children in and of itself.

                      The rest is just oath breaking, and raising children in such a way that it directly harms the children; divorce always does.

                    • by chill (34294)

                      I never claimed such. I claimed that homosexual males have reproduced with females as needed throughout history.

                      I do not accept your definition of "if he get it to work once, he isn't a homo". If a guy wants other guys, and spends years having sex with other guys, but needs children and has sex with a woman once or twice -- he is still gay.

                    • " I claimed that homosexual males have reproduced with females as needed throughout history."

                      Then there is no need for gay marriage, is there? Since homosexual males can marry females, there's no need at all for homosexual marriage.

                      "I do not accept your definition of "if he get it to work once, he isn't a homo". If a guy wants other guys, and spends years having sex with other guys, but needs children and has sex with a woman once or twice -- he is still gay."

                      The difference being that there's no need for s

                    • by chill (34294)

                      Producing children is not the only reason for marriage.

                    • It's the only reason anybody other than the couple involved needs to be worried about or concerned with. Anything more is government intrusion into private business that is better done with *talking to everybody involved*. We outsource far too much of our personal duty to government as is.

  • You know, aside from the deification and anthropomorphism of the laws of physics and all its manifestations, and man's attempt to rationalize/justify his authority?

    • No, those are *creations* of God. God is what exists before/outside of the laws of physics and all its manifestations and before any naked ape stood up in Africa and tried to rationalize authority.

      Which is what TFA is about. If you're just revolting against people telling you what to do, you never get to the idea that maybe authority doesn't need justification because what they're telling you to do is what any rational and wise being would be doing anyway. And rejecting God on the basis of his creation i

      • I reject man's authority. There's nothing to be done about the natural law. And I reject man's gods. Your institution represents a god of man. They are not men of god any more than the rest of us and have no right to impose anything.

        • Nope, sorry, you don't get to decide that. You need to PROVE it. You need to prove that your way is better, before expecting us all to follow it. Prove that rejecting authority does anything other than create a system of the biggest gun wins.

          • by chill (34294)

            That doesn't mean God is "true", it just means the Church was the most effective system at explaining hard problems to simple people.

            "Because God says so! You don't question God, do you (heretic)? Now get back to work and stop pestering me!"

            • So why would I think that atheists could come up with a better way to explain hard problems to simple people?

              But I would point out that fustakrakich's objection wasn't the how the Church promotes it, atheists are just as guilty of burning heretics as anybody else. It was the mere authority to begin with. His problem isn't with God, it is with authority- of any sort, including scientific.

              • by chill (34294)

                So why would I think that atheists could come up with a better way to explain hard problems to simple people?

                There are a lot of hard, complex problems that can't be reduced. Look at Genesis. It deals with the creation of the Earth, Universe and Man in a couple of paragraphs. Compare that to college textbooks on geology, ecology, biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc. Now think of just how effective the system would be if we replaced Genesis with those tomes.

                Not everything has a simple answer.

                • And thus, ultimately, the need for religion. Less than 7% of the human species has a college degree. The more complex answers are NOT more effective, as shown by the demographic decline.

                  • by chill (34294)

                    Yes, but we weren't discussing need, we were discussing truth.

                    I will not argue with the need, as it does exist.

          • My way is better for me. You live how you wish. You don't have to follow anybody or anything, and I wouldn't expect you to. But don't force me into your death march. You don't get to decide THAT, except by your gun. Authority is precisely a system of the biggest guns wins. That's is its very essence. Without the weapon there can be no imposition of authority. They are a matched set, absolutely, completely, utterly inseparable. It is nature is in its purest form. And it is sub-human, like those who cling to

            • "My way is better for me. "

              So you're not human? What specific genetic mutation has allowed you to live the species?

              Authority exists *precisely* because it is better for the species. Weapons evolved to make us stronger and better able to survive. Weapons and authority are human. We aren't a bunch of cats.

              • So you're not human?

                A tiny bit more than the monkeys who cling to power, flinging their atomic poo.

                Authority is 'might makes right'. Proof positive that strong muscles prevail over strong intellect and basic respect.

                We aren't a bunch of cats.

                I'll believe that the moment we quit acting like them.

  • Unfortunately for them different sects of Christians read the Bible differently. What might discomfit a Fundamentalist has no impact on a Catholic who has 2000 years of teaching as to the many ways in which a Biblical passage can be interpreted.

    I'll grant that there areas of worship that are subject to stylistic preference, but tampering with the substance of the Gospel is just a no-go. Pray for the return of Christ, and a needful round of clock-cleaning (to include my own).

  • ...like theism.

If a camel is a horse designed by a committee, then a consensus forecast is a camel's behind. -- Edgar R. Fiedler

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