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Marxist Hacker 42's Journal: If people are basically evil, why give them money? 12

Journal by Marxist Hacker 42
One of the things I've never been able to figure out is the liberal/conservative disjoint with the free market vs communism. It's always seemed to me that it should be the other way around.

Liberals believe that people are basically created good- shouldn't they then support a liberal, free market economic system that allows everybody to express that innate goodness in their own special way?

Likewise, one of the basic Conservative beliefs, especially in western Judaeo/Islamic/Christian culture is that man is created evil- with a tendency to sin rather than to do good- and that all evil is closely tied to man's nature towards sin. Shouldn't such a belief tend towards marxism and centralized economies and governments, which reduce the ability of the individual to do damage, thus "Conserving" traditional values?

In other words- commie left winger is as much of an oxymoron to me as capitalist right winger- NEITHER common association makes much sense to me.

As for me, I believe the truth is somwhere in between- we're created sinfull, but with the capacity to do great good. Centralized governments and money systems harm that capacity; but locally government can do more good than business can, thus I tend towards local atocracies.
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If people are basically evil, why give them money?

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  • ...as it is reasonably intelligent vs. dumb. Conservatives believe that, given opportunity and information, most people will make the right decisions and things will turn out for the better. Hence the faith in the free market, gun ownership, etc. Liberals believe that most people are stupid, and can't be trusted to make the correct (to them) decisions, so they must be controlled, and this is more efficiently done the more centralized the controlling power is.
    • Conservatives believe that, given opportunity and information, most people will make the right decisions and things will turn out for the better.

      But if the generic tendency is towards sin, why would anybody make the "right decisions"? Wouldn't that intelligence be used primarily for attaining fullfillment of one of the seven deadly sins instead?

      Liberals believe that most people are stupid, and can't be trusted to make the correct (to them) decisions, so they must be controlled, and this is more efficie
      • But if the generic tendency is towards sin, why would anybody make the "right decisions"?

        The source of your not understanding conservatives (or rather, as we're talking about here, religious conservatives) is I think in your meaning of "basically evil". When I think of "basically evil", I think of serial murderers and child molesters etc. But it seems to me the vast majority of people are either 1) believers and are cognizant of temptation and know they should resist and do the right thing, and do it most o
        • Now this post makes me more confused- not less. For instance, this paragraph:

          The source of your not understanding conservatives (or rather, as we're talking about here, religious conservatives) is I think in your meaning of "basically evil". When I think of "basically evil", I think of serial murderers and child molesters etc. But it seems to me the vast majority of people are either 1) believers and are cognizant of temptation and know they should resist and do the right thing, and do it most of the tim
          • Gee, where have I heard that argument before?

            1) Most illegal immigrants from the south come here to work, and do -- it's their kids who are running amok, unsupervised, unfortunately.

            2) Liberals may be using that argument, but it doesn't argue for the positions that they hope people will be fooled into thinking it does. (This is actually a common tactic used by experienced deception artists, such as Liberals and advertisers.)

            ...conservation is a conservative value.

            So that's where you're getting hung up. I r

            • So that's where you're getting hung up. I recommend ignoring the dictionary meanings of the words liberal and conservative, and observe what modern Liberals and Conservatives advocate.

              If I go on that, I'd have to say that most modern Liberals and Conservatives in this country are godless, bohemian atheists- worshiping materialism and doing no good for the world at all. Whether laisez faire capitalists or welfare-big-brother statists, neither side even comes close to approaching the form of government and
              • By "advocate", I mean look at what Conservatives and Liberals say, not what they do, to determine what are the precepts of each philosophy in their modern incarnations.

                Hey, you could be a variant of the next Jeff Foxworthy: "If you worship materialism and do no good for the world at all, you miiiiight be a godless bohemian atheist!" :o) Seriously, "worshiping materialism" and "doing no good for the world at all" are pretty nebulous and loaded and subjective phrases.

                I hadn't realized that the Book of Acts ad
                • By "advocate", I mean look at what Conservatives and Liberals say, not what they do, to determine what are the precepts of each philosophy in their modern incarnations.

                  Ah- that would put both of them in the same category, wouldn't it? Hypocrites.

                  Hey, you could be a variant of the next Jeff Foxworthy: "If you worship materialism and do no good for the world at all, you miiiiight be a godless bohemian atheist!" :o) Seriously, "worshiping materialism" and "doing no good for the world at all" are pretty ne
      • I love those sides, they've been used to divide the people, hijack their beliefs, regulate their markets and diminish or destroy their freedoms yet people continue to CLING to those idiotic systems of belief, conservative vs liberal, instead of seeing it for what it is... 50/50 idiocy/intelligence on BOTH sides of the agenda...

        I believe in being allowed to do what I want with my personal life (liberal) I hate churches and organized religions and recognize them for their butcherous nature (does this make me
  • the words "liberal" and "conservative" have been twisted beyond all recognition into becoming the opposite of what they used to mean. Liberals did indeed once upon a time believe in free market lassez-faire economics. Then the Marxists took over the name "liberal" and it's been all downhill ever since.

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. -- Niels Bohr

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