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Comment: Re: Hard to believe (Score 1) 166

by KingMotley (#49152745) Attached to: Microsoft's Goals For Their New Web Rendering Engine

Are you lying, or just an idiot? Have you ever tried it? You still have the File/Edit/View menus when you delete ie.exe in older versions of windows. I haven't tried on the newest, but older ones would actually load IE in File Explorer (all the menus across the top, the E logo, and all, no idea about bookmarks, didn't think that would be such an issue years later for some jackass on the Internet), when IE.EXE was deleted and you browsed in File Explorer to a web site.

Are you lying or just an idiot? Have you ever tried it? If you delete/rename iexplore.exe (not IE.EXE -- there is no such file), and you type a url into file explorer, it tries to open IE in a new window and since it doesn't exist, it does nothing but you see a quick flicker. Perhaps you should try things before calling people an idiot and looking like one yourself.

Comment: Re: Hard to believe (Score 1) 166

by KingMotley (#49152689) Attached to: Microsoft's Goals For Their New Web Rendering Engine

A program that renders is a browser.

Only according to you.

application function of caching

Why would you assume caching is an application function? Caching is not necessarily an application function at all. All layers of a program stack does caching.

Then Lynx is a rendering engine, but not a browser, because the last time I used it, it didn't have bookmarks.

Your logic is flawed. I never said browsers need bookmarks to be a browser, but bookmarks if available would typically be an application level construct and therefor be controlled by the application. You implication that I said all browsers must have bookmarks is just plain wrong.

Oh, and my Android phone will save bookmarks, even if you delete all the browsers off it.

That's nice. And this has what to do with anything?

As a reference, I refer you to the standard OSI model for networking, which has seven layers:

Physical (Layer 1)

This layer conveys the bit stream - electrical impulse, light or radio signal -- through the network at the electrical and mechanical level. It provides the hardware means of sending and receiving data on a carrier, including defining cables, cards and physical aspects. Fast Ethernet, RS232, and ATM are protocols with physical layer components.

Layer 1 Physical examples include Ethernet, FDDI, B8ZS, V.35, V.24, RJ45.

Data Link (Layer 2)

At this layer, data packets are encoded and decoded into bits. It furnishes transmission protocol knowledge and management and handles errors in the physical layer, flow control and frame synchronization. The data link layer is divided into two sub layers: The Media Access Control (MAC) layer and the Logical Link Control (LLC) layer. The MAC sub layer controls how a computer on the network gains access to the data and permission to transmit it. The LLC layer controls frame synchronization, flow control and error checking.

Layer 2 Data Link examples include PPP, FDDI, ATM, IEEE 802.5/ 802.2, IEEE 802.3/802.2, HDLC, Frame Relay.

Network (Layer 3)

This layer provides switching and routing technologies, creating logical paths, known as virtual circuits, for transmitting data from node to node. Routing and forwarding are functions of this layer, as well as addressing, internetworking, error handling, congestion control and packet sequencing.

Layer 3 Network examples include AppleTalk DDP, IP, IPX.

Transport (Layer 4)

This layer provides transparent transfer of data between end systems, or hosts, and is responsible for end-to-end error recovery and flow control. It ensures complete data transfer.

Layer 4 Transport examples include SPX, TCP, UDP.

Session (Layer 5)

This layer establishes, manages and terminates connections between applications. The session layer sets up, coordinates, and terminates conversations, exchanges, and dialogues between the applications at each end. It deals with session and connection coordination.

Layer 5 Session examples include NFS, NetBios names, RPC, SQL.

Presentation (Layer 6)

This layer provides independence from differences in data representation (e.g., encryption) by translating from application to network format, and vice versa. The presentation layer works to transform data into the form that the application layer can accept. This layer formats and encrypts data to be sent across a network, providing freedom from compatibility problems. It is sometimes called the syntax layer.

Layer 6 Presentation examples include encryption, ASCII, EBCDIC, TIFF, GIF, PICT, JPEG, MPEG, MIDI, HTML.

Application (Layer 7)

This layer supports application and end-user processes. Communication partners are identified, quality of service is identified, user authentication and privacy are considered, and any constraints on data syntax are identified. Everything at this layer is application-specific. This layer provides application services for file transfers, e-mail, and other network software services. Telnet and FTP are applications that exist entirely in the application level. Tiered application architectures are part of this layer.

Layer 7 Application examples include WWW browsers

As defined above, the HTML rendering engine is clearly a layer 6 component AKA "Presentation", while IE is clearly level 7 AKA "Application", as any decent architect, designer, or programmer would tell you. Now I'll leave as you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Comment: Re: Hard to believe (Score 1) 166

by KingMotley (#49152573) Attached to: Microsoft's Goals For Their New Web Rendering Engine

Or perhaps you think that MSHTML contains more than it does when you say the user interface survives. The standard File/Edit/View/Window menu is not in there. None of the bookmark stuff is in there. The UI to add/clear cookies is not in there. The menu, dialogs, toolbar, window tabs, print preview, print dialogs, URL bar, favorites, back/home/forward buttons, status bar, and pretty sure the debugger are not in MSHTML. Pretty much anything you could consider any part of the user interface (aside from rendering HTML onto a window) is not in MSHTML.

Comment: Re: Hard to believe (Score 1) 166

by KingMotley (#49152559) Attached to: Microsoft's Goals For Their New Web Rendering Engine

I know exactly what a browser is, but apparently you do not. A html rendering engine is not a browser. A browser may use a system supplied rendering engine, or it may use it's own rendering engine in order to browse. Much like it may also use the networking components of the OS, or it may bypass some (or nearly all of) the OS components and do it's own networking stuff. Saying that you can't delete IE because you can't delete one of the components that it uses is just plain silly. What if IE decided to no longer use MSHTML.DLL and do it's own rendering engine, like MS is currently doing with windows 10? MSHTML.DLL is one component that is independent of the browser, but one that IE may or may not use.

Firefox on iOS uses the webkit rendering engine. As does chrome. Are they not browsers? Should I complain that I can't uninstall firefox or chrome on iOS because it leaves behind the OS supplied webkit rendering engine? Maxthon and a number of other Windows browsers use MSHTML, are they not browsers then?

The window help system did (not sure if it still does) used MSHTML.DLL to render help files, but it is not a browser. Do you see? A HTML rendering engine is one component. Just like the network stack, the display API, the user input API, and a host of other components that the browser uses, but aren't part of the browser.

Comment: Re:Hard to believe (Score 1) 166

by KingMotley (#49149679) Attached to: Microsoft's Goals For Their New Web Rendering Engine

As a developer who recently had to contact google, I can confirm they are worse. Dropped complete support for an underlying technology we used from them with 6 weeks "notice". From "we recommend using this".. "to this won't work at all in 6 weeks". In fact, they haven't had time to remove their recommendations from their own dev areas yet. Thanks google.

Comment: Re: Hard to believe (Score 1) 166

by KingMotley (#49149631) Attached to: Microsoft's Goals For Their New Web Rendering Engine

That depends on your point of view I suppose. So you think that a HTML parser, renderers, FTP parsers are part of IE. At what layer is it no longer IE, and part of the OS? Why stop at the layer and dig down another layer and say you can't delete IE because the OS still can create TCP sockets? Or down another layer and it can do IP? Or down another layer and it knows how to handle ethernet packets? IE was and is only the top layer... The application. If you want to refer to the entire HTML parser and renderer, say that, but those aren't "IE".

Comment: Re:Simple methodology (Score 1) 347

by KingMotley (#49149481) Attached to: The Programmers Who Want To Get Rid of Software Estimates

You realize you just said exactly what gr8apes said, right?

Most teams following Scrum ... keep the top (most valuable) items in their backlog up to date, clear, well-estimated, and ready for inclusion in a sprint. Work that's further out than 2-4 sprints ... can't accurately predict the state of things anyway, so there's very little point or value in trying.

So, you have no plan other than for a few weeks, and you are just sitting down and banging code out since "there's very little point or value in trying"...

Nowhere in any agile framework will you find something that says "lack of a plan is just fine - bang out that code and ignore everything else."

Yet, that is what you JUST said.

Comment: Re:Net Neutrality (Score 1) 112

by KingMotley (#49097637) Attached to: AT&T Patents System To "Fast-Lane" File-Sharing Traffic

And I would counter that ALL my VoIP traffic needs a lower latency than your netflix. Netflix can buffer for 60+ seconds if it needs/wants to and you won't even notice, while delaying VoIP traffic for 60 seconds makes voice calls useless. Not all traffic requires the same type of handling for optimal usage.

Some traffic requires low latency and low bandwidth (VoIP). Some requires high bandwidth but tolerates high latency (Netflix). Others, like email and downloads of any type (FTP, HTTP, bittorrent) are tolerant of both.

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