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Comment: Re:Don't bet on it. (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40162695) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

Don't bet on it indeed!

http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2012/05/evolutionists-are-up-in-arms-over-real.html

Err, umm, how does he justify tossing the word "intelligently" in there in, for example:

But epigenetics falsified all of that. Science tells us that populations rapidly and intelligently adapt to environmental challenges. Such responses, for example, may be accomplished via modifications to the DNA sequence or via modifications to how genes are expressed. For instance small chemicals, such as methyl groups or hydroxyl groups (or one on top of the other!), may be attached to the DNA or to the histone proteins about which the DNA is wrapped. And such modifications can be passed on to subsequent generations.

So what about epigenetics says "intelligently"? Or did "intelligently" just come ex recto?

Comment: Re:Happy to reason with you from the Scriptures (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40162413) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

It's a punctuated equilibrium. Notice how the miracles have been spaced out throughout the roughly six millennia after the creation of man.

"Roughly" as in "a lot more than", presumably. Absent "God faked it all to test our faith", the evidence seems to be pretty good that both the universe and modern homo sapiens are more than 6000 years old.

Comment: Re:A logic error (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40162307) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

Quite true, so when will the evolutionists start to deal with the fact that the evidence doesn't fit the theory?

http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/search/label/False%20expectations

So when will the physicists start to deal with the fact that the evidence doesn't fit the theory? Oh, wait, it already happened. Sometimes a simple model works for a while and then, as more evidence shows up, has to be replaced. That's what's happening here; it's not as if "God created it all at once and nothing big has changed since then" is the only replacement (or even that it's a replacement at all, unless you have an alternative explanation for the fossil record blah blah blah).

Comment: Re:Christians view it as illogical (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40162175) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

You should probably read the Bible before you go paraphrasing it. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2022:1-15&version=NKJV

There wasn't a shred of inconsistency in that story.

No, just God changing his mind:

Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”

[Abraham prepares to sacrifice Isaac, and bullshits him with "trust me, we'll find a lamb to sacrifice somewhere around here"...]

And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

So, yeah, only the first 3 parts of El Fantasmo's paraphrase actually apply here:

God: Hey, Abraham! Go kill your son.
Abraham: OK.
God: No not really.

Comment: Re:The naivety of a young religion (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40160893) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

Modern science isn't that conceptually different to most religions (talking organised religions here). Its followers believe in empirical evidence (evidence collated by our senses alone). Most religions share this belief, but add further avenues of perception on top. More importantly, almost every religion (amongst other things): 1. Believes it deprecates all previous religions.

There are scientists who believe that science deprecates all previous religions. I have not seen any indication that all scientists do (there are, for example, scientists who identify themselves as Christian or Muslim, so...).

2. Insists it is incompatible with other religions (despite evidence to the contrary).

See my reply to point 1.

3. Claims to answer all the questions you have (and if not now it will in the future).

There are scientists who think science either can or will answer all those questions. There are also scientists who think "why does the universe exist?" are out of scope.

4. Hates being compared on the same platform as other religions.

Yes, I suspect most scientists would reject the notion that science is a religion. One out of four isn't good enough, though.

Comment: Re:Bias is sad (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40160801) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

OK, what causes a particular electron to go through the first slit, or through the second slit?

Damn good question. As far as it can be determined, the act of detection or thinking about the result changes the result.

Erm, well, I'm not sure the Copenhagen interpretation has been experimentally demonstrated to be the only valid interpretation of quantum mechanics (no, experiments showing that local hidden variable theories don't work don't demonstrate that detection collapses the wave function), and I don't think the Copenhagen interpretation says anything about "thinking about the result".

And, in any case, that just causes the wave function to collapse - it doesn't say which particular outcome it collapses to, i.e. the measurement causes the electron to appear to have gone through slit A or slit B, but doesn't choose which slit. For an electron that happens to go through, for example, slit A, what causes it to go through that slit?

Comment: Re:Bias is sad (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40160689) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

OK, what causes a particular electron to go through the first slit, or through the second slit?

Damn good question. As far as it can be determined, the act of detection or thinking about the result changes the result.

Erm, well, I'm not sure the Copenhagen interpretation has been experimentally demonstrated to be the only valid interpretation of quantum mechanics (no, experiments showing that local hidden variable theories don't work don't demonstrate that detection collapses the wave function), and I don't think the Copenhagen interpretation says anything about "thinking about the result".

A side note: There are numerous studies that show that humans have 6th sense like abilities. One study shows that human tension rose incredibly world wide just prior to 9/11, and they have tracked similar phenomena to other major events both natural and man made. There was a study that showed that humans had a spike in brain activity just prior to seeing erotic images, which hints at some type of precognition and ESP like abilities.

Citations, please? I'd like to see whether the data really points to your interpretations.

There is a distinct difference when thinking about a creator, which is that morals and ethics can become a requirement as opposed to the atheist view. Look at the state of the US legal system now compared to, lets say the 1850s and see how big the difference is.

Well, yes, we now have laws against, e.g., owning people as property, which is a definite improvement. Are you saying that this was, say, the result of a post-1850's Great Awakening, or something such as that? There were religious people on both sides of that "owning people as property" debate.

Now, laws are mere technicality that people in power can break. Survival of the fittest works in that aspect, just as well as what most people think of in the animal kingdom.

Well, perhaps the fittest might be the ones who don't just fuck other people over.

Comment: Re:Bias is sad (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40152915) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

Society is not harmed by people trying to do the right things according to Judea Christian beliefs.

Well, I don't see any benefit to society to some Biblical beliefs, such as these beliefs and the one given here and here, and there's definite harm to people as a result of the first of those.

Now, maybe you're not counting all the crap in Leviticus as "Judea[sic] Christian beliefs". If so, what are you counting?

The worst that would happen is that they would just die after living a life in a relatively peaceful and respectful society.

OK, you're definitely not counting all the crap in Leviticus, giving the pile of stonings to death, etc. called for there.

You on the other hand are doomed if you are wrong. Society is harmed by people that have no belief except for survival of the fittest, and that man is god.

Yup. Fortunately for me, and for society, even though I'm a nonbeliever, I'm not one of those people. I know plenty of other nonbelievers who don't believe that stuff either.

Comment: Re:Bias is sad (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40152863) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

That is the first the sane comment I've read on this topic in a very long time... And I happen to agree 100%. If you think about it, logic dictates that there must be a creator / supreme being. 0 + 0 = 0. Permanently. This does not change over billions of years. So if you originally have nothing, how do you get to the initial "something" / material / energy etc for the whole big bang? The answer is that

...you don't originally have nothing. I'm not sure what you have at t=0, other than "a singularity?", but I'm not sure any theories of cosmology have zero energy at t=0.

Comment: Re:Bias is sad (Score 1) 1145

by Guy Harris (#40152797) Attached to: Debate Over Evolution Will Soon Be History, Says Leakey

As an amateur Philosopher spanning about a quarter century, I can tell you that I have studied quite a lot of territory which includes a lot of Physics.

OK, what causes a particular electron to go through the first slit, or through the second slit?

I am not going to try and explain, but tell you to find the answer you need to think beyond any point which becomes uncomfortable to your beliefs.

Challenging your beliefs is a hurtful process.

Are you willing to challenge your beliefs - including any belief you have in a creator?

Belief in a creator could get you to a point where you have to think about morals and ethics beyond survival instincts.

I have yet to find any reason to believe in a creator, but have somehow managed to think about morals and ethics beyond survival instincts. Perhaps there are people who can't think about them without belief in a creator; that prospect is both sad and frightening (those folks might well think about them badly with a poor choice of faith - "the creator tells me to kill these people because they don't believe in him!").

When you make your mark in the world, watch out for guys with erasers. -- The Wall Street Journal

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