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Comment: Re:THIS IS NOT NEWS (Score 5, Informative) 182

by Grond (#40012257) Attached to: Gene Therapy Extends Mouse Lifespan

The Harvard researchers didn't use gene therapy to lengthen the telomeres. They engineered a knock-in allele encoding a 4-hydroxytamoxifen (4-OHT)-inducible telomerase reverse transcriptase-Estrogen Receptor (TERT-ER) under transcriptional control of the endogenous TERT promoter. Basically, the mice had short telomeres and the researchers could reactivate telomerase by administering 4-OHT. That's genetic engineering, not gene therapy in adult mice.

Furthermore, the Harvard researchers showed the reversal of artificially-induced aging, but not an increase in lifespan. The researchers in this study demonstrated an increase in lifespan in normal mice.

The Harvard study showed that improving telomerase activity could reverse or slow aging, but it didn't show how to actually accomplish this in normal, adult organisms. That's what the researchers in this study have done, at least in mice.

Comment: Re:THIS IS NOT NEWS (Score 1) 182

by Grond (#40012115) Attached to: Gene Therapy Extends Mouse Lifespan

No, the Harvard researchers didn't do the same thing. They genetically engineered mice to have short telomeres, inducing faster aging, and then reversed the process by reactivating telomerase. The mice didn't actually live longer than normal. By contrast, the researchers in this study used a single application of gene therapy to extend the lifespan of normal mice, and they did so using techniques that have already been used in humans to treat other conditions.

Science

Gene Therapy Extends Mouse Lifespan->

Submitted by
Grond
Grond writes "'Researchers at the Spanish National Cancer Research Centre have demonstrated that the mouse lifespan can be extended by the application in adult life of a single treatment acting directly on the animal's genes. Mice treated at the age of one lived longer by 24% on average, and those treated at the age of two, by 13%. The therapy, furthermore, produced an appreciable improvement in the animals' health, delaying the onset of age-related diseases — like osteoporosis and insulin resistance — and achieving improved readings on aging indicators like neuromuscular coordination.' Notably, the therapy did not cause an increase in the incidence of cancer."
Link to Original Source

Comment: Re:A serious challenge (Score 1) 171

by Grond (#40006093) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

That would mean that, as a practical matter, no patent that included a software component would ever be infringed. The all elements rule requires each and every element of a claim to be present in order to find infringement. Thus, a patent on a new, useful, and nonobvious machine that happened to use a microcontroller would be worthless because it would never be infringed. A competitor would simply sell the machine and the software separately. The machine by itself would not infringe the patent, and selling and installing the software would not infringe the patent under your proposed rule. Trying to patent the machine without the software installed would not work either, since without the software the machine would not function and thus would fail the utility requirement.

This is an example of why, even if Congress were prepared to ban software patents, it would not be very easy to do so. Until there is a workable definition of "software patent," calls to ban software patents are equivalent to saying things like "we should stop crime." It may be a laudable goal, but without a workable plan for accomplishing that goal, it's not very helpful.

Comment: Re:A serious challenge (Score 1) 171

by Grond (#40006007) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

Right here.

Okay, great. Now turn that into a definition of "software patent" that is neither under- nor overinclusive, can be easily and unambiguously applied, and cannot easily be gamed.

(Yes, including 1. Think about it: could you patent both the machine in example 1, and the instruction manual for curing rubber using it, separately? Not really).

Actually, you could. Consider a simple rubber curing machine that has only one control: a thermostat. One coud patent that machine and one could patent a method of curing rubber using the machine, which gave various temperatures and hold times that produced a good product.

In the case of 5, why should that software be patentable? Any actual useful results from the software WOULD be patentable, provided they could be physically implemented. There is no need whatsoever to patent the software itself.

Sure there is. Such a program would be highly useful to the designers of rubber curing machines, as it would allow them to test new designs without having to build physical prototypes. For example, the Boeing 777 was the first aircraft designed entirely on computer, which was apparently a great improvement over the old design process. Why wouldn't we want to encourage such innovation?

Comment: Re:Exactly (Score 2) 171

by Grond (#40005909) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

I very much doubt he was seriously involved in the development of software products, except at a very high level.

Actually, Jobs was famous (some might say infamous) for involving himself in the tiniest details of user interface design and software features. See, e.g., this article: "The design process behind OS X 10.0 and Steve Jobs’ remarkable level of involvement".

Comment: Re:A serious challenge (Score 1) 171

by Grond (#39998083) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

But your example has nothing to do with software patents. It has to do with curing rubber.

Even number 5, which is strictly a patent on a computer program for modeling the rubber curing process and thus involves nothing physical, apart from the computer itself? What about a patent on a computer program for simulating the behavior of objects made of rubber (e.g. in a 3d modeling program)?

In this case the software is just a piece of the process, a tool. This is a lot different than, "patent a cursor by using XOR"

How is that different? The software is just a piece of the process for displaying a cursor. What's so different about a cursor on a computer screen and a piece of cured rubber? They're both useful, physical applications of a mathematical idea.

Comment: Re:The usual anti-patent mistakes (Score 1) 171

by Grond (#39997447) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

Programs ARE math. Yep, they are abstract things that you can't hold on your hand (didn't you notice it?). You'd better define better what you mean by "pounder", because depending on your definition, that'll indeed make a search result appear on your head/paper/computer.

Then allow me to be more clear: I mean programs in the context of software patents, which is the context in which we are discussing the issue. A software patent does not claim an algorithm by itself (i.e. the claim does not begin with "An algorithm, comprising ..."). It claims either a computer programmed in a particular way or a computer-readable medium on which the program is stored or a method for programming a computer or some other connection to a physical artifact. In the context of software patents, a program is tied to a physical device in a way that makes it both useful and concrete.

By "ponder" I meant to consider a program or mathematical algorithm in one's mind. The point is that one can "do math" in a way that is not covered by a software patent that claims a useful application of the same mathematical idea. This demonstrates that such a software patent is not a patent on the underlying mathematics.

Comment: Re:The usual anti-patent mistakes (Score 1) 171

by Grond (#39997399) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

No, programs ARE math buddy. Nothing else.

But software patents claim more than just a program. They claim a program running on a computer, or stored on a computer-readable medium. Consider, for example, this hypothetical claim: "A method for calculating a sum comprising a user entering two numbers into a computer followed by the computer calculating the sum of the numbers and displaying the sum on an output device." No amount of math (in the abstract sense) will cause a user to enter numbers into a computer or for the computer to display the sum. I can do math (e.g. prove theorems, use formulas to calculate results, etc) all day and never cause that to happen because it requires input from a person and output on a physical device. Neither of those are math.

And, to address your analogy, patenting software isnt equivelant to patenting a new wing design. It's equivelant to patenting to the math which you used to develop the new wing design.

You've only stated a conclusion, not given reasons for it. I gave reasons: both are embodiments of mathematical ideas that have useful applications in the physical world. The curve of an airplane wing is defined by physics, which is in turn defined by math. A patent on a wing design is, in that sense, a patent on an application of the equations that define an optimal wing. A computer program is defined by math, and a patent on software is a patent on the application of that math to achieve a useful result.

Comment: A serious challenge (Score 2) 171

by Grond (#39996971) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

In order to ban software patents, one must first define software patents. I challenge anyone in favor of banning software patents to come up with a definition of the term that is neither under- nor overinclusive, can be easily and unambiguously applied, and cannot easily be gamed. Here are some example technologies to think about as you develop your definition:

1. A machine that cures rubber by heating and cooling it, controlled by hand.
2. A machine that cures rubber by heating and cooling it, controlled by a computer program using a new, nonobvious, and useful application of a mathematical equation.
3. A new and nonobvious kind of rubber curing machine that uses such a complex curing process that only a computer could control it, resulting in a significantly superior product.
4. A computer program for controlling the rubber curing process using a new, nonobvious, and useful algorithm that could only be carried out by a computer, resulting in a significantly superior product.
5. A computer program for modeling the rubber curing process using new, nonobvious, and useful applications of mathematical equations.

If you want to ban software patents, where do you draw the line?

Comment: Re:The usual anti-patent mistakes (Score 2) 171

by Grond (#39996813) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

All programs are math. If it isnt math you cannot run it on a COMPUTER.

No, programs use math. Math, in the abstract, is not useful. No amount of thinking about math will ever cause something to happen in the physical world. I can ponder the Page Rank algorithm all day long but that won't cause internet search results to spontaneously appear on my computer. Software patents cover using math to achieve a useful result. They satisfy the utility requirement of patent law in a way that math in the abstract does not and cannot.

Software engineers use math to achieve useful results in the same way that engineers in other fields use math to achieve useful results. There is no meaningful distinction between a novel algorithm leading to a more efficient program and, for example, a novel wing design (created using physics simulations based on math) leading to a more efficient airplane. They are both embodiments of mathematical ideas that have useful applications in the physical world.

Comment: Re:Opt Out? It's illegal to grant patents on math! (Score 1) 171

by Grond (#39996697) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

Software patents are not patents on math because they are tied to machines, networks, sensor input, and other physical artifacts. No amount of thinking about matrix transformations will cause three dimensional graphics to appear on a computer screen. No amount of thinking about the Page Rank algorithm will cause internet search results to appear. A patent on an algorithm or a data structure is in no way a patent on the underlying math.

Just because some idiot lawyers redefined "software" as not being "math", because they couldn't grasp the math isn't enough reason to not ditch illegally granted patents.

I'm a lawyer, and I also have both bachelor's and master's degrees in computer science. I get the math just fine. The problem is a lot of engineers who don't understand the law.

Comment: Re:Exactly (Score 4, Informative) 171

by Grond (#39996573) Attached to: Federal Patents Judge Thinks Software Patents Are Good

nobody who is seriously involved in the development of software products can claim that software patents are a good thing

Would you consider Steve Jobs "seriously involved in the development of software products?" When he announced the original iPhone, he noted "and boy have we patented it." It's right there in the presentation as a bullet point, alongside "works like magic" and "no stylus." Later he pointed out that "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."

Comment: Re:What happened to innocent ? (Score 3, Informative) 205

by Grond (#39935877) Attached to: The Patent Mafia and What You Can Do To Break It Up

The patent system works the other way around it is up to the defendant to prove that they have not violated a patent. Guilty until proven innocent.

That's not accurate. Patents are presumed valid by statute, but they aren't presumed infringed. The plaintiff still has to make out a prima facie case of patent infringement, which the defendant can then rebut or defend against in some other way (e.g. by showing that the patent is invalid or unenforceable).

Comment: Re:The FIX (Score 1) 205

by Grond (#39935811) Attached to: The Patent Mafia and What You Can Do To Break It Up

Because slavery was abolished at the constitutional level. Prior laws abolishing slavery typically did so gradually in ways that avoided takings claims. When Congress abolished slavery outright in the District of Columbia in 1862, it compensated slaveowners loyal to the Union. See George Rutherglen, State Action, Private Action, and the Thirteenth Amendment , 94 Va. L. Rev. 1367, 1373 (2008).

I suppose a takings claim could be avoided if software patents were abolished by constitutional amendment, but that's incredibly unlikely.

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