You know, you hit the nail on the head. I have 21 years with my company and I personally started on a help line for Point Of Sale equipment in the Credit Card dept (proprietary card), moved from there to LAN administrator, and on to programming and system images. That POS help line? It is in Manila now. The Credit Card department? Outsourced. Oh, there is still a card with our company name on it. It just isn't handled at all by our company anymore. I wouldn't have even been able to start with the company today without moving overseas and working for peanuts. Low Cost Geography they euphemistically call it. In the same way those of us who are technical experts in the design departments no longer have any internal source to draw on for new hires. The lower end jobs where the best of the workers could have moved up are all overseas. The middle of the road jobs are mostly gone too. It's only the top end design groups that are left in the US. And we have nobody to pull from when folks retire, switch jobs, or get laid off. We supposedly hire from colleges, but those that come in are woefully unprepared. They would have been fine after spending a couple of years in those middle tier jobs - but they just don't cut it for the ones where you need a lot of experience. They will someday, but not right away. It makes long term succession planning for your group more a "rob from Peter to pay Paul" game of musical chairs where you try to poach from other groups.