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FortKnox's Journal: Angry About Page Widening? 21

Journal by FortKnox
Well, here's a reason to get even madder! Addendum: Link removed to save StarshipTroopers Inbox. It has been fixed now.

Its a link to the sourceforge page with the fix.
Yeah, but here's a few points jamie brings up:
1.) Not high on his priority list (I'm sorry... this is a bug. Bugs should be more important than features. If you don't think so, they go talk to that "evil corporation" you hate)
2.) No slashdot editor uses windows to test the fix (*BUZZ* wrong. Its been proven OVER and OVER again that you all have windows partitions to play games, and watch QuickTime vids. PLUS - being someone that works in the internet industry, I can say that you ALWAYS test with ALL MAJOR BROWSERS (IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, and even Konquerer))
3.) Why make a fix that only supports such a small userbase (heh... I guess he doesn't realize that in the "real world" were people work in "non-dotcom" companies, we usually have to work on windows. In fact, I'd be tempted to see the real statistic. If he truely believes there is only a small percentage that uses IE, then I want to see his reaction to the truth)
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Angry About Page Widening?

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  • We have a certain system that REQUIRES ONLY IE 5.5 or above to even be usable! Anything less will absolutely not work because their Java code is using proprietary IE coding or some such nonsense.

    And this is in a company with hundreds of users using this system. Ha!

    • I've written systems that require IE 5.5

      Not because I'm a fan of it, but because

      A: everyone in the company had IE 5.5
      B: the DHTML editing control makes a lot of things stupidly easy

      Not every project has to be cross-browser and cross-platform.

      But /. should be. If there's a bug with rendering in IE, then fix it. Can't be that hard - the lameness filter is already doing a lot of work.

      .
  • If any of the people working on brewnix see this, they'll figure that I'm a complete asshole. Oh well... BTW, the response and 'you' is directed to jamie.

    You don't mind screwing up links, which are posted in nearly every story, yet you don't want to mess up someone's ability to enter a list of dotfiles?

    Priorities...

    "I can see that words are coming out of your mouth, but all I hear is 'blah, blah, blah'"

    How about CT use some of that magic mojo that he uses to tell us what percent of users read comments, and tell us what percent of users use IE?

    How about at least being honest and putting a "Page best viewed WITHOUT IE" link on the pages?

    How about not being such a collection of twats? I'm gonna buy something from VA, when they don't have a single machine with a Microsoft OS available? Here's a hint: take a ratty old box, buy a copy of Windows '98 from one of the vendors on pricewatch for ~$100. You can do the occasional page view from a Pentium 133 or thereabouts. Certainly somebody must have a collection of old computer parts that would let you put together a system for no other reason than to view a page with the most popular browser in the world. Or are you 1337 uber-hax0rs incapable of putting together your own box and installing Windows? Now we know where all of the comments about the difficulty of installing Windows comes from (FWIW, I just walked my *mother* through a Win'98 install over the phone.)

    I no longer feel the slightest twinge of remorse over ad-blocking.

  • As opposed to a reply to the sourceforge page.

    You say in point one that this has a 'low priority'. Wasn't the old saw 'send us a patch and we'll put it in'? Doesn't this demonstrate the (lack of) veracity in that statement? Oh, sorry, it's not a proper diff.

    Christ, what a bunch of wankers.

  • Regarding #2, #3- I think we are talking about arrogance here. Why would anyone NOT test in IE 5 and above? Someone needs to check the slashdot logs. I'd be willing to bet at LEAST 50-70% of readers are using IE 5+. Lets face it, the browser wars are over and have been for a while now :)

    First the subscriptions, and now this. Wonder what else is coming down the pike...
  • by Starship Trooper (523907) on Thursday March 14, 2002 @07:16PM (#3165311) Homepage Journal
    I would like to humbly request that you send matters pertaining to this bug directly to Jamie [mailto], CmdrTaco [mailto] or Krow [mailto]. The SourceForge bug system is filled with crapflooders and I doubt the editors give comments there much credence. Also, as the bug report's author, every comment gets mailed to me directly, and the massive flux of new comments being attached recently is spamming my inbox and becoming a burden.

    The Slashdot editors are surprisingly receptive to e-mails (assuming you're polite, of course), and if you show that you care about this problem enough to open your email client and send them a mail instead of just ranting into an HTML form, they may take more kindly to repairing it. And you'll make my mailbox more manageable too :-)

  • by squiggleslash (241428) on Thursday March 14, 2002 @10:15PM (#3166213) Homepage Journal
    Seriously... 0.9.8 rocked. 0.9.9 has a few bugs in it, but you should be able to download 0.9.8 if you look around.

    A vast improvement over IE, renders just about everything IE does (if not more, thanks to the "compatability mode" and support for Netscape-style plug-ins), and no 31337 h4x0r can widen your page by, well, what the hell is that thing? Starting each word with a period? I don't even get why it would widen a page, and I can say without reasonable fear of contradiction that the bug is in MSIE.

    And that's the crux. Someone is making use of an IE bug and you're telling Slashdot they should fix it. Slashdot aren't exactly my favourate people at the moment, but blaming them for an IE problem, which is easily circumvented (you DO have a choice in browsers) is a little unfair, even by my standards.

    Download Moz. You'll like it, honest.

    • you DO have a choice in browsers

      Why should anyone make any Linux software at all (you DO have a choice in OS's)??

      Think about what you said in reverse...
      What if the problem existed in Mozilla? Maybe that's a bad example (open source projects are, because once someone is annoyed enough, they fix it), but the point is, when I'm at work I have no other choice in the matter.
      I'm a contractor at a company, so I don't have local admin to just start installing software, and Slashdot *is* in the internet biz (being in the internet biz, myself, I can tell you that you make it so you page is working on all popular browsers). Sometimes, when I code up JSP pages, I need to do something special with Netscape pages to get them to look right. I don't EVER tell my clients "You do have a choice in browsers, ya know".

      Slashdot IS a business. Don't forget that.
      • Think about what you said in reverse... What if the problem existed in Mozilla?
        Then I'd tell the Mozilla people to fix it. Either way I wouldn't expect Slashdot to fix a problem which is in Microsoft's browser.

        Sometimes, when I code up JSP pages, I need to do something special with Netscape pages to get them to look right. I don't EVER tell my clients "You do have a choice in browsers, ya know".
        And I agree that it's a good thing, a great thing and a central principle of web development that you code to be cross platform. However, cross platform != fix other people's bugs for them, and work around every cosmetic blemish caused by a bug. The Slashdot crew have put in code to ensure that any reasonable browser will not widen pages. Unfortunately, MSIE is being unreasonable. Perhaps if you direct your complaints to MS, the authors of MSIE, they'll fix it. It's their bug.

        That's all I'm trying to say. Just thank the walls I'm not a Slashdot Pseudo-Libertarian otherwise I'd probably have disagreed with your comment about your employer too and made some anal "If you don't like your job, you should work for someone else" comment.

        I blame the Tories.

    • A few??

      HA! It's funny too, someone said 0.9.9 rocked while 0.9.8 sucked.

      IMO, 0.9.8 sucks, while 0.9.9 sucks less.

      Konqueror (and maybe Galeon) are the only browsers I would think about using if I could not use IE
    • you DO have a choice in browsers

      Not where I work. All computing is controlled quite tightly, and because I use a Unix box (HP AIX to run high-end CAD), I can't even take advantage of MS's occasionally lax installation restrictions on non-admins.

    • Reasons I still don't use Mozilla (it has greatly improved, I'll admit):

      1) It still doesn't render a small but sizeable portion of websites correctly. A few examples I found in the first hour of use with 0.9.9 were msnbc.com and the page at my university that has courseguides for upcoming terms (it uses java and doesn't seem to work right with Mozilla).

      2) My password filler inner doesn't work with it. I have about 100 sites of login data in there, so this is an issue for me....anyone know one of these that does?

      3) How could I live without google toolbar???

  • If only I could take Slashdot seriously anymore. But Rob barely being able to restrain himself from bashing the very people who make Slashdot what it is(us, the posters of Interesting comments) was the final of several straws for me. I can no longer claim to have any respect for the creators and maintainers of this site.

    The stories are interesting and the people who come here are interesting. But just look at the difference between how say Rusty on kuro5hin treats his readership and what goes on here. Night and day my friend.

    So I will humor the place while I'm here. I'll enjoy the good stories submitted and the good comments posted. Before The Post, before I was $rtbl'd for no reason, before I learned of Taco's condescending attitude towards contributors, before I learned of Jamie's callous indifference to fixing an easily fixable bug - I was planning on subscribing.

    Not only was I planning on subscribing, I was planning on promoting the idea of subscriptions. I bet I could have influenced quite a few people to consider signing up. I believed in this site, and at one time I would have hated to see it die. No longer.

    I'll enjoy this place while it lasts, but I certainly won't cry when its gone.

  • 3.) Why make a fix that only supports such a small userbase (heh... I guess he doesn't realize that in the "real world" were people work in "non-dotcom" companies, we usually have to work on windows. In fact, I'd be tempted to see the real statistic. If he truely believes there is only a small percentage that uses IE, then I want to see his reaction to the truth).

    Umm, what kind of crack is that? Most dot-com companies I know of use Windows internally. Most companies I saw that started during that era that had real products and goals that made some vague business sense where Linux companies. Conflating the two is stupid.

    As a counter-example, I work at a company that has profitably produced software for close to 15 years. I use Linux exclusively on my desktop, and have, quite productively, for over 3 years at whatever job I worked at.

    You're right, that if Slashdot has a bug, it ought to be fixed, even if it exclusively affects IE users. But, throwing around those kinds of stupid opinions isn't going to win me over to your cause.

Testing can show the presense of bugs, but not their absence. -- Dijkstra

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