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Enlightenment

FortKnox's Journal: Eugene's Moment of Triumph! 39

Journal by FortKnox
This JE has a religious undertone, so if that bothers you, just read the last half of eugene's comment to appreciate the michael zinger ;-)

Here's a science article thats hidden from the front page: Praying Doesn't Help.

Now that you are finished reading that, please read eugene's reply (and the correlating parent makes a good point).

Way to not only have a GREAT point, but the added michael zinger made me laugh so hard. Way to brighten my day, eugene :-)
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Eugene's Moment of Triumph!

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  • by Otter (3800)
    I've got to agree with Numinous -- that's the whole point of doing a statistical analysis. Even if prayer or seat belts don't provide 100% efficacy, if they have a meaningful effect it should be detectable given a large enough sample. Either prayer has a detectable effect or it doesn't.

    SuiteSisterMary had an interesting JE [slashdot.org] on this topic a while ago. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with religious ideas that focus on what gets done for _me_ rather than what I need to do.

  • You don't get much further from religion than me. That being said, I thing Eugene is 100% on target, and the article is 1000% bullshit.

    (From a scientific perspective, the effect of "good vibes" on terminal people is well established; while a Positive Mental Outlook won't cure cancer, the connection between a happy mind and happy body is apparent.)

    I wonder why Sengan got canned after everyone hated him, but they leave Michael around...
    • That being said, I thing Eugene is 100% on target, and the article is 1000% bullshit.
      Thanks for your thoughts & support. I totally agree with what you said in that thread. I don't mind seeing people test their theories, as long as they aren't presumptious. Anytime we are dealing with living beings there's always a trump card that throws everything out the window.
  • Who decides what God wants?

    For the sake of argument, let's grant that the afterlife is a better place. Here's a scene from God's office:

    -----

    [ring ring]

    God: I knew you'd call.

    Praying Person: God, please protect the soul of Bob Jones as he has his surgery and make it as successful as it can be.

    God: Jones? Lessee, got his file right here...ok, right, gotcha, no problem. Thanks for praying.

    Praying Person: Amen...(click)

    God picks up the phone.

    God: Reaper! How's it hangin, Bud? Listen, tap Bob

  • Can anyone read this? I can't seem to post.

  • What this study really misses is the emotional/spiritual benefits one might reap from prayer. It also seems to completely miss half of the equation: what about the people who were being prayed for? What do they believe? Were they religious at all? Did they believe that the prayer would help them? Did they know that they were being prayed for? This kind of thing can't be studied under a microsope. But, scientists will try.

    What is more interesting though is the largely predictable responses that you

  • Slashdot user page : Preferences : Homepage : Exclude Stories from the Homepage : Authors : michael. I don't disagree with the statement that that guy is a tool (how is that for poli-speak, huh?) but there is no need for the moderation option. If you don't like his stories (and he seems to be the legitimate successor to John Katz on that front) then you don't have to see them. If enough people do that he might eventually go away. If you want to rally then put it in your sig (something like: Have you disable

  • My comments [slashdot.org] were posted to that story, although more people read FK's journal than the front page anymore.
  • first they would need to know what makes for effective prayer. many religions have different ideas about this. some ideas may be correct, others could be misguided. the bible has some things to say about the quality of prayer in many places. we have no idea how prayer was conducted, how much people who prayed meant it, or something i think is very important, how receptive the patients were to the aid of prayer. let alone the whole "thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" thing that the study ignores.

    si
    • why would he have to abandon it? why not expand it? what about the physical universe does it conflict with? none of it, except that it would mean that there is something more than just the physical universe. that is, unless he is claiming that humanity already understands the question that leads to 42. otherwise there are still plenty of variables, enough that there is room for something other than chemical and physical reactions.

      This is the real heart of the "religion" debate. Many people try to make

      • "i believe in something beyond what we perceive with the senses."

        "ha! i can't see or hear it, so that proves you're wrong!"

        i could never see what was logical about that argument.

        • Brilliant, I love it. Thanks.

        • Heh.

          "i believe in something beyond what we perceive with the senses because a bunch of people with exactly the same senses as mine told each other that it exists and then went on to tell me."

          "you make a strong case for its existence."

          Well, that's just my perspective. Everyone knows I am a loon.:)

          Anyways, a lot of modern science handles things that we can't see or hear quite well...

          :P
          • that is a much more fair argument.

            i wouldn't classify my belief in God as the result of others telling me about Him. the reason i can't just instantly convert you to my way of thinking (even if i wanted to, which i don't) is that my reasons have to do with a personal sense. i sense God's presence without the 5 physical senses. i "feel" God's presence. it is a feeling similar to an emotion. it's the same as i can't prove to you that i am in love with my wife. i can show you evidence of my feelings, bu
          • i believe in something beyond what we perceive with the senses because a bunch of people with exactly the same senses as mine told each other that it exists and then went on to tell me

            I've read a story about how somewhere in Southern America, when Magellan's ships passed the coast on their way around the globe, the indians on the land just didn't see them, as their minds weren't used to seeing such big "boats". Only the tribe shaman saw it, as he was used to seeing weird things, and taught the others to s

If you hype something and it succeeds, you're a genius -- it wasn't a hype. If you hype it and it fails, then it was just a hype. -- Neil Bogart

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