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Comment: Re:Does this mean Java really is free? (Score 5, Informative) 234

by Forever Wondering (#40096665) Attached to: No Patent Infringement Found In Oracle vs. Google

That depends on whether they assigned the copyright along with the submission. If they had already assigned the copyright to Sun (as I believe was required to have it accepted), then they would no longer have the right to submit it anywhere else. Such is the stupid world we live in, which is why I can easily believe that a developer would have forgotten they did it, especially on such a trivial function.

Your point is well taken, so I did some checking. openJDK submissions require that you accept the "Oracle Contributor Agreement" [nee Sun]. From that document:

2. With respect to any worldwide copyrights, or copyright applications and registrations, in your contribution:

- you hereby assign to us joint ownership, and to the extent that such assignment is or becomes invalid, ineffective or unenforceable, you hereby grant to us a perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, worldwide, no-charge, royalty-free, unrestricted license to exercise all rights under those copyrights. This includes, at our option, the right to sublicense these same rights to third parties through multiple levels of sublicensees or other licensing arrangements;

- you agree that each of us can do all things in relation to your contribution as if each of us were the sole owners, and if one of us makes a derivative work of your contribution, the one who makes the derivative work (or has it made) will be the sole owner of that derivative work;

- you agree that you will not assert any moral rights in your contribution against us, our licensees or transferees;

- you agree that we may register a copyright in your contribution and exercise all ownership rights associated with it; and

- you agree that neither of us has any duty to consult with, obtain the consent of, pay or render an accounting to the other for any use or distribution of your contribution.

The first two clauses appear to cover it. The joint ownership clause seems mostly concerned that any submission grants rights to Sun/Oracle to use the code. But, the original submitter retains parallel rights [as long as they don't try to revoke Oracle's right]. The derivative work clause implies that either party may make a derivative work without consulting the other and gets full rights to the new work.

Thus, giving the rangeCheck function to Android is allowed by this agreement under either of these two clauses.

Comment: Re:Does this mean Java really is free? (Score 1) 234

by Forever Wondering (#40094337) Attached to: No Patent Infringement Found In Oracle vs. Google

That wasn't the Jury deciding whether they were copyrightable; they'd been asked about their opinion assuming it was (juries are supposed to determine facts, rather than law). That was the jury (failing to) decide whether Google were nonetheless allowed to use the API under fair use, even if it were copyrighted.

Yes. It was prudent of Alsup to ask the jury to decide this because it removes one of the grounds for appeal (e.g. if he hadn't and subsequently rules that the law is that the API itself [rather than the API document] is copyrightable).

Given that he evinced an interest in the recent EU ruling that a program [even one that is copyrighted] may be dissected (e.g. disassembled) to support clean room recreation, it seems likely he will rule that the API is not copyrightable. That is, if disassembly is okay for clean room, merely reading the API document [a lesser offense] to clean room implement Dalvik would be okay.

To rule that the API itself is copyrightable, would probably make anybody who has ever written a Java program guilty of infringement [if they didn't have an explicit license]. This would have severe negative implications for software development on any platform, open/free or commercial, Java or not.

Comment: Re:Does this mean Java really is free? (Score 3, Insightful) 234

by Forever Wondering (#40093375) Attached to: No Patent Infringement Found In Oracle vs. Google

It doesn't matter anyway. There were only nine lines of copied code and the only reason it was there is because the guy that submitted it originally to openJDK is the same guy that put it in Android.

IANAL, but if this is so, this would indicate the original submitter would be the copyright author for the code ("rangeCheck"). If s/he was not a Sun employee at the time (e.g. the submission was done as free software), s/he would be free to submit to both code bases. This person would be the only person in the world that has such right. Thus, rangeCheck is not even copied from one code base to another. Ergo, even if the code is identical, there is no copyright infringment.

Comment: Re:How is this a representative sample? (Score 1) 171

The story dwells on one person's story. There are any number of people (both Americans and immigrants) who take any available job and try to work their way up, but opportunities never appear.

The story also has a link to a [105 page] PDF titled "Silicon Valley's New Immigrant Entrepreneurs". But, it's from 1999 ... I skimmed it. Part history of immigration and some statistics and a few case studies. But, as far as I could tell, it offers no comparison to American entrepreneurs [hence the title, I guess].

Comment: Re:Where's the incentive? (Score 1) 134

by Forever Wondering (#39946275) Attached to: Controlling Bufferbloat With Queue Delay
The algorithm can probably be retrofitted onto some/most equipment [via a firmware upgrade]. Since it's not a protocol change, it doesn't affect other routers in the path (e.g. mandate that it be implemented as an all-or-nothing). The incentive is that after you charge your premium for QoS, you actually have to deliver it.

Comment: Re:Strangely Relevant to Oracle vs. Google? (Score 3, Insightful) 215

Isn't this different? Google recreated/copied that language and still call it Java. To use car analogy Oracle Java(TM) is like Ford Mondeo(TM) and Google created their own unlicensed Mondeo and even named it Mondeo, Microsoft for example branded it J++ instead of Java. Google is using the word Java all over in their documentation. To me this look is more like trademark and design patent (Java syntax) problem then a copyright issue.

This ruling says that Google was within its rights to reverse engineer Java and create Dalvik (the VM). While you're correct about the possible trademark angle, trademarks are a funny thing.

For one, "java" is a slang term for coffee. This was true before the language. That's why the java logo is a steaming cup of coffee. Thus, because it's a common term, it may not be eligible to be trademarked.

Unlike patents [where you may selectively pursue infringers as you choose without losing any rights], trademarks must be vigorously enforced. You must take legal action against just about anybody using the trademark improperly.

If you don't, you lose the right to the trademark (e.g. Kleenex for tissue, Thermos vs vacuum bottle, Sanka for decaf coffee). All these trademarks/brands allowed a usage (and it only takes one) in a generic way and lost the right to the trademark. That's why aspirin is a trademark [of Bayer Pharmaceuticals] in Europe, but in the U.S., it's a generic term for a pain reliever that any manufacturer may use.

I suspect that Sun/Oracle has been too loose about this and we'll be able to strip them of their trademark readily enough.

Comment: Re:Illegal... (Score 1) 149

by Forever Wondering (#39873945) Attached to: BART Defends Mobile Service Shutdown

You are not a common carrier simply because you install a cell repeater to serve your own customers in your own premises. They aren't disputing being a common carrier because nobody said they were such.

BART is a common carrier. You're confusing it with a private business. They're not disputing it because they want to be one to get the safe harbor provisions [which I mentioned in my last message, but you chose not to read].

Cell repeaters are not illegal, and you can go here and buy one for yourself:

It's not illegal to buy one. It is illegal to use one unless you have a license. Particularly, if you've set it up incorrectly [and are causing interference], you'll have a representative from your local cell phone company showing up on your doorstep. You must have the consent of the licensee.

The FAQ you cited [cleverly] omitted any reference to legality of operation. You got bamboozled into thinking that just because you can buy one, it's legal to use it. It's also legal to buy a cell phone jammer but it is not legal to use it.

Once I got this far, I realized you don't have a clue what you are talking about and lost interest

Absolutely I do know what I'm talking about and everything I've said is verifiable on the web if you had taken the time to check it yourself [using a source that is a tad more credible than a site whose sole purpose is to sell you something].

Comment: Re:Illegal... (Score 1) 149

by Forever Wondering (#39873471) Attached to: BART Defends Mobile Service Shutdown

It has yet to be established that the cell service in the subway was common carrier.

If you provide these services to the general public [which BART did], it is common carrier. Not even BART is disputing this. Their argument is more along the line of the circumstances justified an exception to the rules.

It may have been simple off the shelf cell repeaters operated by Bart itself.

It is illegal for individuals and businesses to install/use cell repeaters. Only a licensed carrier may do this. That is, if you're a business/individual, the carrier/licensee must install/maintain the repeater for you. A rogue repeater subjects the owner to possible equipment forfeiture, fines, and/or imprisonment.

After all, you don't find Verizon suing Bart do you?

That's because [in all probability] Verizon set up the repeater system for BART.

And further, there was no discrimination. Simply a system wide outage.

An outage due to technical reasons/failure is vastly different. Deliberately pulling the plug [because of the potential speech/content] violates basic rules for common carriers.

The reason for this is that common carriers enjoy a "safe harbor" from the actions of their users. That is, if person X decides to kill person Y and uses BART to travel to Y's residence, BART enjoys immunity. Without such immunity, BART would an accomplice before the fact. In exchange for such safe harbor immunity, BART may not discriminate. If it does, it risks losing its common carrier status and exposes it to all sorts of liability.

However, in the above example, if a person Z (rather than BART) transports X to Y's place, Z is an accomplice [because Z is not a common carrier].

This safe harbor is also true for telecommunication carriers [common carriers]. If X uses the carrier's network to discuss/plan the murder of Y with Z, the carrier is not liable for their actions.

Comment: Re:Illegal... (Score 2, Interesting) 149

by Forever Wondering (#39865077) Attached to: BART Defends Mobile Service Shutdown

Apparently its illegal to jam cell phone transmitters

A felony if I'm not mistaken.

but not technically illegal to unplug them. Its entirely possible the FCC will find itself powerless in this fight, because there is no mandatory "must operate" regulations in place.

Uh, no. Cell phone operators [and telcos] are common carriers, subject to Title II regulations, under the Communications Act of 1934. Common carriers [by definition] are prohibited from discriminating service, based on the content of messages (e.g. voice, data). The FCC has complete authority to regulate this matter [from this Act].

If you are going to rush in and pronounce something "illegal, plain and simple" please provide your credentials, and what year you were appointed to the bench.

Et tu, Brute?

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