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Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

The NES version looks low res with about three colours, that is if you count black as a colour.

16 actually, I've counted.

How about a real comparison with more than just a single screenshot.

Lots of text on black on those NEC PC88/PC98 screens. The NES version does look better. You'd be able to see the difference better in battles with multiple opponents, and while outdoors. There are no screenshots of the NES version for that.

(Deus Ex)And yes, the PC version still looks miles better than that blurry, low res mess with crap lighting on PS2.

Miles is an exaggeration. The PS2 version compares favorably with the GOTY version, which I do have. Want to know why I have it? To actually put the statements made by guys like you to the test. I've done the same for the PC versions of Diablo 1, Diablo 3, and Fallout 3.

(Half-life)Yeah, I wonder why it never released for Dreamcast. Oh, that's right, it was too weak to handle it.

It was two weeks from gold when it was canceled...because of changing market conditions. Meaning the PS2 was stomping the Dreamcast in sales.

The PS2 version is still so low resolution that any "enhancements" that they made are effectively hidden behind huge, pixelated blocks.

What huge pixelated blocks. did you see it on a PS2 connected to an old TV over RF or something? Try playing it in widescreen mode (yes, it has it.) over component cables. While I don't have a capture card...I could take a screenshot.

(Deus Ex)Want to have a guess at why game companies segregate PC and console players in FPS games? It's because all FPS game are unplayable on gamepad. Watching someone try to do it is hilarious and sad at the same time. Even the very worst PC FPS player can spank the best console FPS player because it's such a horrible means of control.

That issue is not relevant here, since DX is a single player game and any purported control issues are not relevant because the PS2 version supports PC style control schemes. Though again, I recommend hybrid control, analog for movement, mouse for aiming, the game supports it.

(Sacred 2)As someone who played both games on PC, it is definitely a mouse oriented game.

It's quite possible to design an interface that doesn't require a mouse. You've played the PC version, it's designed for the mouse. The PS3/Xbox 360 versions have a nicely designed control system.

Have fun navigating every single menu option, inventory item and on-screen buttons with a gamepad.

You do know that it's possible for a game to use different interfaces on different platforms right? So the PS3 version is designed to work well on the Dual Shock.

Basically you cannot refute the true statement that I made, so you cry troll.

I can take screenshots if you want, or point to video.

Surprised you didn't mention the real fault of PSone Diablo, the saved games eating up 10 blocks on a memory card.


They are trying to sell their PC to console port, so of course they are going to try to spin it as though gamepads aren't crap for this style of game.

Gamepads work well with Diablo clones, we've known this since 1998. That's why there have been many such games since then on various consoles. Diablo, Darkstone, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 and 2, Champions of Norrath 1 and 2, X-Men Legends 1 and 2, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1 and 2. Hunter the Reckoning, Sacred 2, Dungeon Hunter Alliance, the 3 Untold Legends games, D&D War in the North, Diablo 3, the upcoming Sacred 3.

Head to the D3 forum and you'll see PC players wanting gamepad support with the PC version. I have the PC version by the way, bought it so I could post on the forums, but I don't play it because a gamepad suits ARPG's better and the PS3 version is simply more fun to play.

Google it yourself, every media outlet and reviewer out there says that D3 works very well on a gamepad. Lots of them said how surprised they were. I found their surprise, surprising, didn't they play Diablo on the PSone, or Champions of Norrath?

(War Thunder) "The console version looks like shit compared to the PC version"? Of course they would never admit that about their own game.

But it looks the same! Any differences are minimal.

Lossy compression

That can't be helped, but you can always watch someone play the PS4 version.

Nice cherry pick though.

It's not cherry picking, even the PC users over on the war thunder forums say it's the same game, which is why all users play together on the same servers.

Look, maybe you're a "PC Master Race" sort of guy, but that sort of attitude needs to go the way of the dodo. Why do "PC Master Race" bash the consoles so much? Why the vitriol? Is it justification for the extra money you spent sort of thing? A "I grew up in Hungary/Romania/Russia/Poland/Brazil/Thailand where consoles were for rich people and everybody pirated PC games because we had no money thing"? Is it the "I'm upset that there's more focus on console games these days." thing?

We're all just gamers, we're even playing mostly the same games these days.

Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

You linked to a machine that you specifically chose that would support your argument. If you want a real comparison, feel free to price out parts.

No, the PS4 is an off the shelf item, that's why I picked an off the shelf machine to compare it with. If you can find a machine that costs $399, has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM, an octocore CPU (of any kind), and an AMD 7870 or Nvidia GT750 or better, point a link.

Nope, that's a dedicated GPU. Try looking at the shitty integrated GPUs that they stuff into their "APUs" because that's what the PS4 and Xbone use.

Ah, you're confusing PC style APU's with the custom ones the consoles use. The PS4's APU uses a GCN based GPU, same architecture as the desktop HD 77xx-79xx. Basically it's a 7870 with 2 CU's disabled, it has 1152 GPU cores with 1.84 teraflops of performance, look it up.

No, more like $100. For $120, I could get a 750Ti. I don't know where you shop, but it's overpriced. You must get ripped off a lot.

Does the word "average price" mean anything to you?

and the PS4's GPU is significantly weaker than a 7870.

Slightly weaker yes, because of the two disabled CU's it's less than the full 7870, but more than the 7850. It's nowhere near as low powered as the "intel HD style" graphics you're implying it is.

I've only been programming and doing component level hardware diagnostics and repair for 30 years, 20 of them professionally.

Doesn't mean you actually know anything about gaming consoles does it? Especially if you have the usual "PC Master Race" biases.

Like I said, if you can find a pre-built machine for $399 as I describe above, you can get back to me.

Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

The Apple version looked much better than the NES version. The PC-88 & PC-98 version absolutely demolish the NES version.

Citation needed...oh wait, I have a citation for you that proves you wrong:


Deus Ex on PS2 had crap textures, low quality soundtrack and tiny levels

They're not tiny, they're split in pieces, the port house didn't know the trick of streaming levels. But take a look at the screenshots...

and the comments at the end about the nice soundtrack and how it looks a touch nicer than the PC version. And this is people on Steam saying this, one of the more anti-console forums on the net.

Half-Life on PS2 came out three years after the PC original and still looked worse than the PC version with Blue Shift,

Do you know why I'm laughing. The graphical upgrade Blue Shift brought to the PC version was provided by the never released Dreamcast version. the High Definition pack are the textures the Dreamcast version used. The PS2 version has enhancements beyond that:

The PlayStation 2 remake of Half-Life saw even further improved models to the game, also created by Gearbox. This included full facial animation and individually-animated fingers.[4] As such, they're considered a continuation of the High Definition Pack. The PlayStation 2 port took advantage of a "Level of Detail" system, allowing these very detailed models up close without sacrificing performance. Health and H.E.V. Chargers have been converted to 3D and have special animations during use. These extra HD features were never officially released for the PC version of the game.

Both had crap controls on console, rendering them unplayable.

Really, you have copies? Played them? Citation needed, because I have both within 10 feet of me and know how they support effective dual shock controls, and also support keyboard and/or mouse. I personally recommend a hybrid control scheme, using the left half of a dual shock for movement...but mouse for aiming.

Sacred 2 looked like shit on PC, but far worse on console.

What? A game that runs at true 1080p with no upscaling tricks? Even digital foundry, notoriously partisan for the PC, said that.

It was also a very mouse heavy game which again renders it virtually unplayable on a gamepad.

That's not what Sacred 2's developers say. That's not even what people on the PC version say either. Some of them actually wanted gamepad support as well.

Diablo I on PSX came out two years after the PC version and runs at such a low resolution that you can't tell what it happening on screen.

Troll. It's one of the PSone games that runs at 240p. Yes it's low but you can easily make everything out. You can easily find video or screenshots.

Diablo III on console looks like shit compared to the PC version.

That's not what notoriously PC partisan Digital Foundry said:

On the technical scale, both the PS3 and 360 are running at the equivalent to the PC version's high settings for texture assets, physics and effects - with smoothed dynamic shadows almost a match for PC's highest preset. Quibbles with internal resolution and field of view aside, this is a pristinely presented take on a year-old game that targets 60fps on both platforms, and largely succeeds in nailing exactly that.

Again, mouse centric games that are horrid on gamepad.

That's not what all the PC version players wanting gamepad support on the PC version are saying. That's also not what Jay Wilson said:

"One of the reasons why weâ(TM)re exploring the idea of a console version of Diablo 3 because we feel that the controls and the style of the game lend itself to a console," he admitted. "With some of our early experiments in putting a direct control scheme into the game via a 360-like analogue controller, Iâ(TM)ve been âOh this feels even better, with direct controlâ¦'"

(War Thunder)Still looks like ass compared to the PC version.

That's not what Gaijin entertainment says

That's not even what the screenshots and video say.

Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

but it will have 8GB of DDR3 RAM and *dedicated* GDDR5 VRAM.

I'm sorry but I linked to machine that is in the same price range of the PS4, and it doesn't have either of those. Having main memory be high speed GDDR5 is an advantage you know.

More cores != faster. A dual core Pentium G series is just as powerful as an eight core Jaguar CPU and 1.6GHz is a joke for such an anemic CPU.

Oh really? Then what about those PC gamer master race guys like you who were claiming that having more cores was more important than clock speed when talking about the PS3's CPU. You guys can't have it both ways.

The integrated GPU in the PS4 is *exactly* the same as the ones used in AMD's PC CPUs.

Why yes, the standalone 7870....which still costs about $150 right?

A low-end GPU like the Geforce 750 will provide the same performance and only costs $100.

More like $120, but that's a very recent GPU, just came out didn't it. The 7870 still has more GFLOPS than it... I checked.

And that $379 machine doesn't come with one of those does it?

And you're thinking like a clueless console moron who knows nothing about PCs or technology.

Really. You're going to do that know nothing console peasant thing on someone who has been running LInux for 12 years? One of the reasons I play games on consoles is so I don't have to use Windows.

Get back to me if you can get an octo-core machine with 8GB of RAM and a 7870 or GT750 for $399. But you can't.

Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

I can get a PC that is more powerful with the same amount of RAM for that price.

it won't have 8GB of GDDR5 RAM will it.

The CPU in the PS4 is the performance equivalent of a low end PC processor, such as a dual core Pentium.

BS. That's 8 1.6 GHz cores in the PS4.

The GPU, being integrated, is also pretty low end.

You're thinking like a Filthy PC Gamer bourgeoisie philistine. Integrated doesn't mean the same thing in console land. The PS4's GPU is is a customized version of AMD's 7870 GPU, with 2 CUs disabled.
That's not a traditional "integrated" GPU like you're implying.
It is most certainly better than the GT640 I've got in this Fedora machine.

Let me find a machine to compare:

Lets see that costs $379, has a dual core CPU, 4GB of RAM and intel HD graphics. Can that thing even run Watch Dogs?

Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

All of which had much worse graphics and horrible, unplayable controls compared to the PC versions, among other problems. Disasters.

Really? All of them? Which ones have you played?

  M&M 1 on the NES has enhanced graphics and sound over the Apple 2 and C64 versions.

The PS2 ports of Deus EX and Half-life, are also enhanced over the originals and support mouse and keyboard as well.

Sacred 2's developers said themselves that the game plays better and is more fun with a gamepad.

Diablo 1 on the PSone has graphical enhancements over the PC version. Diablo 3's developers said that the game worked well and was more fun with the gamepad.

War Thunder on the PS4 supports the exact same control options the PC version does and also supports using the PS4 camera for head tracking just like TrackIR.

Comment: Re:Lockout chip is a big part of the problem (Score 1) 542

by CronoCloud (#47419197) Attached to: Normal Humans Effectively Excluded From Developing Software

I think part of the problem is that lockout policies enforced by code signing, as used by Apple on iOS and by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo on their respective consoles, are designed specifically to prevent this sort of "casual programming".

They're not there to stop casual programming, they're there to slow down every "wannabe" with a puzzle game clone who thinks he's the next Shigeru Miyamoto from publishing his tetris clone.

You can program all you want, what your'e talking about is actually "publishing for sale" not programing.

Comment: Re:Cry Me A River (Score 1) 542

by CronoCloud (#47419119) Attached to: Normal Humans Effectively Excluded From Developing Software

In 1980, a kernel or driver developer was entering data into a mainframe using punchcards in binary

They most certainly weren't using vim/emacs 1976 also 1976

Comment: Re:Unless you've spent $300 on a GPU... (Score 1) 205

Diablo, Diablo 3.
C&C, Red Alert, RA Retaliation, Dune 2000
Deus Ex
Half Life, Portal
Sim City (various versions)
Civ II
Wing Commander (various versions)
Might & Magic-foo, Wizardy-foo, Ultima-foo
Quake (various versions)
Sacred 2
IL-2 Sturmovik, Wings of Steel, War Thunder
Don't Starve
You don't know jack.
X-com (the original)
Panzer General

Comment: Re:Multiple PCs and multiple copies (Score 1) 205

Someone needs to explain to Valve and everyone that if

SteamBoxes are to be the "next big thing in consoles" that they need to cost like one. And to be stuck with it because people don't want to upgrade it yearly - if I spend $500 on a SteamBox, I expect to be able to play the latest games on it for 5+ years at 1080p with the same quality (or better - console graphics typically improve through its lifespan as people optimized).

This is why I think that the Steambox will end up as basically vaporware. Sooner or later someone is going to lay the facts on Gabe on how he can't always have what he wants...because it's just not practical.

Comment: Re:because it fucking is (Score 1) 205

I think Sony actually had a good idea with adding a chip to the early PS3's for backwards compatibility. I think that current-gen would do better if this concept continued.

And that was one of the reason the PS3 deluxe launch model cost $599! Don't you remember all the complaints about the price, and how they should have left backwards compatibility out because people buy a new console to play new games, not old ones? Saw that right here on Slashdot.

This universe shipped by weight, not by volume. Some expansion of the contents may have occurred during shipment.