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$$$$$exyGal (638164)

$$$$$exyGal
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Journal of $$$$$exyGal (638164)

Thanks and meat.

[ #37695 ]
Saturday June 28 2003, @12:31AM
User Journal
Thank you so much for all of your comments and suggestions last week. It was important for me to write out those thoughts. Occasionally, my brain repeatedly dances around a topic over and over again, and the only way to finally tackle the issue is to force myself to coherently write it all out. Writing out those thoughts here on Slashdot was an opportunity for me to quickly garner feedback from all you smart folks. I'll post similar thoughts in the future.

Here is one entry, among many, that I considered particularly insightful. Yes, I am in my 20's, but not for much longer.

A _slightly_ less serious issue to discuss: Do non-vegetarian people know they are eating animals ;-) ? I read this article about the FDA likely not seeking to label cloned animal meat in a special way, and it got me thinking. What if all meat was required to be labeled with the animals it contained? Would that labeling effect the sales of meat in a negative way?

Here's a poll! (for more polls, check out Em Emalb's journal)

==================================
I would not purchase meat labeled with:

A) A listing that said "Animals contained within this package: ". For example, ground beef would be labeled as "Animals contained within this package: Cows". Assume a one half inch tall font.

B) A cartoon rendition of all the animals contained within the package.

C) Stock photography of all the animals contained within the package.

D) A specific picture of the exact individual animals contained within the package. Assume a 1 inch black and white photo.

E) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they are being killed.

F) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they looked as babies.

G) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they looked while they read pornography on the toilet.

H) "This product contains animals that had a penis and/or vagina".
==================================

Assume we are talking about farmyard mammals like pigs, cows, etc. Whatta ya say!?

Signed,
Someone who is a vegetarian, but who also happens to have a deep respect for the philosophy of Ted Nugent.


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  • My feeling about eating is that if I can eat it, I can kill it, and I don't have a lot of respect for the attitude that killing is gross or whatever, unless you also don't eat dead animals. Therefore, I don't care what's on the package. Show pictures of cows being killed if you like, I'll still eat it. And yes, I have killed to eat. Not a cow or even a deer or anything, but I've done it, I didn't have a problem with it, and I'd do it again if the need arose.
    • Every individual has their own idea of what is gross to kill and what is gross to eat.
      1. Some people revere bugs.
      2. Some people kill bugs.
      3. Some people kill and eat bugs.
      4. Some people only eat bugs that have been killed by other people.
      5. Some people revere cows.
      6. Some people kill cows.
      7. Some people kill and eat cows.
      8. Some people only eat cows that have been killed by other people.

      After being a vegetarian for about 10 years, most meat looks the same as bugs to me. When someone orders a pizza wi

  • No offense, but none of those labeling systems would stop me from eating meat. A picture of the cow having sex with Billy Joe Bob Farmer might stop me. A picture of its behind after the goatse.cx guy finished with it might stop me, but not the ones you mentioned. I also think (D) is a good idea, but in color. Then I may be able to tell if they give the creature a bath. I like my meat clean! :-)

    Maybe I'm the wrong person for this poll. I have seriously considered if I ever get enough money, I'll have a nic

    • I would like to see a labeling system where they show a picture of the cow after it was slaughtered. If it's a picture of an animal which has been rotting in the sun for days covered in flies, then I'm not buying it.

      If such a labeling system were developed and enforced, I bet less meat would be purchased in the short-run. In the long-run the conditions of the live cows would probaby improve. This experiment will never take place, however, because it would make the price of meat go up. If meat prices go

      • If such a labeling system were developed and enforced, I bet less meat would be purchased in the short-run. In the long-run the conditions of the live cows would probaby improve. This experiment will never take place, however, because it would make the price of meat go up. If meat prices go up, people will freak out instead of just eating something else.

        Expect to see them go up quite a bit by the end of summer. Beef prices usually go up in grilling season, because people tend to buy much larger and more e
    • Maybe I'm the wrong person for this poll. I have seriously considered if I ever get enough money, I'll have a nice wide pen where I can chase and kill the animals with various bladed weapons, then throw them on the BBQ. I was thinking cows, but they would be to slow and not fun. Maybe deer? I like to fight for my food. I haven't tasted deer meat though...is it any good? I know, I'm evil. You may now mark me as 'foe'. Move along.

      Have you ever dealt with a threatened cow? Specifically, a Black Angus? If yo
      • Most humans will never eat deer, because deer are not docile enought to be mass-produced on factory farms. I contend that the predatory instinct in humans is something that most people prefer to suppress:
        1. Most people prefer that their meat be given to them in pre-cooked bite-sized proportions.
        2. 99% of the meat eaten by modern humans is grown on a farm.
        3. The majority of meat eaters would be perfectly happy to eat good tasting meat if it were grown on a tree.

        If you prefer to embrace your inner preda

        • Nah, that's just cause we're lazy. I don't have the time or equipment to butcher my own meat, but i bet it would be fun as a special event. Earlier this year i got to eat venison that came straight from the hunter, and there was a certain thrill to being "closer" to the hunt.

          Great point about pepperoni/bugs, btw. It goes a long way towards helping me understand vegetarians.
        • Most humans will never eat deer, because deer are not docile enought to be mass-produced on factory farms. I contend that the predatory instinct in humans is something that most people prefer to suppress.

          Deer, along with ostrich, buffalo, emu, etc. is actually farm raised in the US. Almost any venison in a restaurant was raised on a farm. I've actually seen venison steaks for sale in a market before. Generally you only see this in fancy gourmet markets or in exotic meats stores, but it is there.
          • And I contend that someone here is misinformed. A quick google would find the following list right at the top ...

            I should have been more clear when I said "factory farm". I didn't look at all the places you mentioned, but the few I looked at appeared to be relatively small family run farms that raise deer for meat. When I use the term "factory farm", I'm talking about the huge industrial farms that produce thousands and thousands and thousands of animals. I don't think there are any "factory farms" tha

  • The only thing any of those might stop me from eating is a hot dog. They tast good, and I really don't want to know what is in them.
    • You already know what is in them, but you still eat them ;-). Trust me though -- nowadays, the difference between the contents of a hotdog and a McDonald's Hamburger is very minimal.
      • Trust me though -- nowadays, the difference between the contents of a hotdog and a McDonald's Hamburger is very minimal.

        You assume most of us will actually eat hamburgers at McDonald's. I will admit to getting breakfast there when I'm on the road, but only because they have decent coffee and Starbuck's isn't everywhere yet.

        I do like a good hotdog, however I usually either get sausages (Johnsonville, a local italian brand, etc.) or kosher beef franks. While I'm sure there are things in there I'd rather n
  • Having said that, I will happily tuck into 'veggie' meals. Even tofu holds no fear for me. Oh, and I go for free-range or organically-produced meat wherever possible.
  • Are you trying to tell me that if you buy (for example) sausages in America, that it does not list in the ingredients what type of meat is contained within?

    Pork Sausages, ingredients:
    Sawdust, flavour-enhancer, spices, salt, mutton, mutton, mutton, pork.

    I don't know about you, but around here EVERYTHING contains mutton. Yuch. I'd be thrilled if they would put pictures of the relevant animals used on the packaging. It would explain a lot. (I'd also expect a fair few products to end up with pictures of cat a
    • Are you trying to tell me that if you buy (for example) sausages in America, that it does not list in the ingredients what type of meat is contained within?

      I'm not completely sure it is listed (I don't buy meat), but I suspect it is. I know for sure, though, that it isn't usually written in a half-inch size font.

      "Hey kids look, today we are eating Bessie the cow! That's her in the picture there, see how healthy and fat she looks!"

      The healthy and fat looking cows would go for a premium that most cons

      • The healthy and fat looking cows would go for a premium that most consumers wouldn't be prepared to pay. Most parents feed their children the cheap meat, and only eat the premium meat when the children are with the babysitter.

        I think that depends somewhat. The cheap meat isn't always the lowest quality either. Very often it is simply a less-popular cut or in a form considered less convienient. For example whole chickens are typically cheaper than boneless skinless breasts. Also consider the cost differenc
    • Are you trying to tell me that if you buy (for example) sausages in America, that it does not list in the ingredients what type of meat is contained within?

      Pork Sausages, ingredients:
      Sawdust, flavour-enhancer, spices, salt, mutton, mutton, mutton, pork.

      Looks like a typical US hotdog label except it would be chicken instead of mutton, and would have "MSG, high fructose corn syrup, preservatives, artificial color, artificial flavor, and nitrates" as well.
  • I guess I'd be completely unaffected by extra labeling.. I grew up on a farm, so we had animals that we raised from birth to slaughter. It's part of what gets done. Instead of hunting the food down, like our ancestors did, they grow up on the confines of a small farm. Well, small as farms go, large for the space they wander.

    Every time someone asks me how I can eat rare steak, I try to help them understand, in our not too distant past, there were no nuts&berry vegetarian's. Tribes of humans (y
    • I guess I'd be completely unaffected by extra labeling.. I grew up on a farm, so we had animals that we raised from birth to slaughter.

      If I grew up on a farm such as you did, I'd probably not be a vegetarian today. In most likelihood, I'd have grown accustomed to the slaughtering method, and it wouldn't bother me. Humans can get used to and accept anything, especially if they are introduced to the concept at an early age. If I was born on a farm that regularly slaughtered humans, cats, and dogs for hu

      • I agree with you there. In modern times, though, if you don't cook your meat, you are much more likely to be infected by bacteria. So I'm told by the media.

        Yes and no. If you kill meat yourself and butcher it properly there is very little risk of anything other than trichinosis from certain animals like bear(btw most trichinosis cases in the US are from game and not pork nowdays).

        You can even eat pre-packaged meat from the store raw depending on the meat and the cut. With seafood or whole cuts of meat th
  • Here it is, WHY VEGAN? [vegan-info.com]
    Note, the first page is okay, but once you click the "Transformation of animals into food" link, it get graphic- just a warning for the squeamish.

    So I had that pamphlet sitting in my room all through college (I used to run with the Vegetarian crew, cuz they were cool and MOSTLY because they would cook scrumptious things for me!)- cuz I thought it was incredible in its graphicness. That didn't stop me from eating COw, pork, tripe, tendon, and chickens feet, but it balanced out my awa
    • In regards to the website you mentioned, factory farming animals is certainly disgusting.

      I rarely attempt to persuade anyone else to become a vegetarian, because I consider it to be a personal choice. There is no perfect diet for humans that causes absolutely no suffering to anything else. Every single vegetarian/vegan/etc that says that their eating habits are somehow better than someone else's eating habits is living in a fantasy world. In the real world, things aren't black and white. The real worl

      • that reminds me...
        Whole foods (a.k.a. Fresh Fields) has cruelty free veal- no shit. Well, I mean, they kill 'em in the end, BUT they don't keep them in boxes!

        My Sisters Fiance is a store manager and he's even been to the farms.
  • Thanks for the article on the Nuge! Although I've only met him a few times (he has an incredible memory for people!), he's basically treated like family.. within my family. lol

    Everyone loves him, but my dad, who is major anti-hunting for some unknown reason.

    Obviously Ted stands for a lot more than just hunting though - he is about the right to bear arms, he is about freedom in many different ways - not just about killing animals for sport. In fact, he's not about that at all.

    And I'm very impressed th
    • Thanks for the article on the Nuge!

      You're welcome :). To be honest, I read the article about a year ago, and I don't remember all of it. But I do remember that I agreed with a lot of stuff that he said. He hates McDonalds for all the right reasons.

      Quite a remarkable person. I do not agree with everything he says, but he makes really really good arguments.

      • Sometimes he can just be an absolute pig of a man (see if you can find sometime, the story he tells about the night he wrote the song Wango Tango), but he's definitely taken his part of the world in his own way. Charismatic as all get out, I think my dad would even like him, but the step-brother can't get my dad to meet him.. lol

        (my step-brother works at a gun shop and sells guns to Ted.. this is how I know him.. and he owns a house that my ex- used to live next door to, so she knew him as well.. it's r
  • I doubt any of this would dissuade me from eating any form of meat.

    I might buy free-range and organic meats more often but that is about it.
    • I respect your opinion and appreciate that you want to know what goes in your body. Many people do not know, and do not want to know.

      I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it? How far could we go with this ;-) ?

      How far are diehard meat fans willing to go to eat meat daily?

      • Your assumption is based on another - and very wrong - assumption that people actually pay attention to pictures on labels. Many (especially men) don't. As long as my label on meat confirms that it's kosher (i follow the laws of my culture) and doesn't contain french flag or "made in france", i don't care if it has a picture of a cow having lesbian sex with a chicken ;)
        Although, i'd probably be more likely to buy meat if it had real lesbian porno label on it ;)

        Cheers,
        DVK
        • But wouldn't you look through the labels so you could find a picture of a cow that looked tasty? I bet the healthier / cleaner cows would be more palatable.
          • I'd have no proof that the cow on the picture is the source of that meat anyway...
            Reminds me of an old russian joke:
            A guy in the store asks about some meat: "what is that stuff?"
            Store Worker: "Dog meat, 4th grade of quality"
            Guy: "Why's there wood in it?"
            SW: "4th grade dogmeat is ground together with the doghouse".

            As for healthier cows, that's one benefit of only eating kosher meat - LOTS of the things that would make the meat unkosher are specifically various unhealthy states of the animal or even its part
            • The intent of kosher slaughter is to keep animals that were not "healthy and moving" off of your plate. This is great in theory, but like much religious doctrine in the world, has been perverted to increase profits. While non-kosher cows are stunned before they are killed, their kosher counterparts are not stunned before they are killed (in most countries). If the general public were to see a kosher slaughter and a non-kosher slaughter, they would conclude that the kosher slaughter should be banned.

              Ple

              • The intent of kosher slaughter is to keep animals that were not "healthy and moving" off of your plate. This is great in theory, but like much religious doctrine in the world, has been perverted to increase profits. While non-kosher cows are stunned before they are killed, their kosher counterparts are not stunned before they are killed (in most countries). If the general public were to see a kosher slaughter and a non-kosher slaughter, they would conclude that the kosher slaughter should be banned.

                You ar
      • I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it?
        The toilet wouldn't bother me, and the pornography wouldn't bother me. However if cows actually did read stuff (i.e. they were sentient) that would probably bother me.
      • I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it? How far could we go with this ;-) ?

        Hell yeah! I grew up on a farm, worked on another. I have slaughtered animals, and then eaten them out of the freezer months later. I have slaughtered animals that not only had faces, but names.. (George, for example) and eaten them.

        I avoid certain things.. organ meats.. an
    • Regarding your question, I have small hopes for labelling to affect the choices non-vegetarians have made.

      I'm not so sure. The non-vegetarian slashdotters that have posted so far say they would eat meat regardless of the labelling, but I don't think the general public would agree. I'm not suggesting the general public are all closet vegetarians, I'm suggesting that the general public fear changes on their meat labeling. In the short-term, the general public will choose non-cloned meat over cloned meat

        • However, going from this to giving up meat completely is a task too steep for the majority of people to undertake, I'd think.

          Agreed. It's also a bad idea for anyone to just outright stop eating meat. It's something that people should gradually do at their own pace. Start off by skipping McDonalds hamburgers.

    • You assume in error that the vegetarians are the educated ones, and the carnivores are ignorant. Well, most of us know exactly what we're eating, and those who don't probably wouldn't change.

      I'm against animal cruelty as much as the next guy, but it comes down to this: through the entire existence of Life itself, those creatures that have cared more about themselves than others have done a better job of not dying. Skip ahead a few years, and you arrive at me. Sucks to be those animals, but I'm not going to
      • Whoops, I read "small" as "some" in your post. Guess I look like a condescending ass now.
      • Most of the vegetarian arguments are full of holes, and the only one I honestly support is "I don't like meat." Fair enough.

        Here's a few reasons I'd prefer for you to be a vegetarian:

        1. Less cruelty to animals.
        2. The more vegetarians there are, the more vegetarian choices there will be at restaurants.

        If you truly abhor the choice of vegetarianism in your life, then I still request that you avoid animal products "grown" at factory farms.

        Any diet will be healthy or unhealthy depending on how much ef

        • Well, does my being sverely partial to organic, free-range meat make me any less of a terrible guy? I really have no idea how much difference that makes in the consumed animals' lives, but they are certainly far more tasty.
    • It's all a matter of personal opinion, which has usually been shaped by your personal experiences. IMO, growing animals for food should be done differently than growing plants for food.

      By all means, if you kill it yourself, and you grill it yourself, then you are in many ways a better person than I.

    • Ted Nugent is the man!

      I just love how his pro-gun, pro-hunting, pro-meat views seem to give many others in the entertainment industry fits.

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