Pop Up Ads in Space

modder writes "A Russian inventor has patented ads in space. Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?" Remember the first time your dad took you out at 1am into the backyard with a telescope? With Your kids the conversation will be something like "Follow the Swoosh to Arcturus, Drive a Spike to the AT&T Logo"

Re:radio

Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 20th century?
Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio. And in magazines...and movies...and at ball games and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts and written in the sky. But not in dreams. No siree!

Whoa. Deja vu. [slashdot.org]

Re:radio

That's just HORRIBLE. 'Nuff said.

As Bill Hicks put it:
"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising, Kill Yourself. Just planting seeds, that's all I'm doing. No joke here. Really, Seriously, Kill Yourself. There is no rationalization for what you do. You are Satan's little helpers. Kill Yourself, Kill Yourself, Kill Yourself Now. I know some of you are thinking there's going to be a joke coming up...There's no fucking joke. Suck a tailpipe, hang yourself, borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy - do something to rid the world of your evil fucking presence. Okay, back to the show..."

I don't think any more needs to be said on this :)

When will it stop?

Wait for the first "Want your willie to be THIS BIG??" spam stretching for hundreds of kilometers across the horizon.

Jokes aside, why do people put up with intrusive advertising as a given? How much of your money spent on a 1 litre soft drink goes directly towards advertising the product back to you? I read some time ago that "big 3" North American automakers spend approximately US$1500 (averaged) on advertising for each vehicle sold.

Ultimately you foot the bill & suffer with the barrage of adverts, they reap the sales & expense write offs.

Re:When will it stop?

Most of those "advertising" dollars are spent sponsoring things like sporting events, theatre, live concerts, etc..

Almost every major venue has a corporate sponsor these days. Staples Arena, 1st Mariner Arena, Air Canada Center, Ford Center for the Performing Arts, etc.. Because, by themselves, these arena's arent profitable.

Noone could afford to race Nascar if not for those company decals plastered all over the cars.

So the big corporations write it off as marketing dollars, we get our big stadiums and events.. They also pay for our free-to-air TV and radio (which is a relatively small amount of their advertising budgets).

Re:When will it stop?

With the notable exception that you can opt-out of this so called "tax" by simply not purchasing the product. I'd like to see you try that with a real tax. The advertising, the events, and the additional cost are more like by-products. As with anything else, if you are opposed to the by-product, you cease use of whatever creates it.

Re:When will it stop?

The problem isn't so much the ads, it's the intrusiveness of advertisers.

For example, ads in malls are fine by me. The mall is a place specifically built for commerce, so it's to be expected. The Radio provides programming in return for the listener accepting ads. For me, it's not a worthwhile trade, so I don't bother with the radio.

Billboards should be restricted to developed commercial/industrial zones. Billboards along a highway shouldn't be.

As a side note, I do not buy clothes with big logos and designer names on them. I prefer unmarked clothes, but will accept those with an easily removed lable.

Telephone solicitation and spam are right out. The national do-not-call list was IMHO an excellent step in the right direction, I just wish it had happened 10 years ago.

Re:When will it stop?

This is the same difficult issue as "Why should I pay taxes? Why should I pay insurance when I've never needed to use it? Why should I pay an 'activity fee' at my university when I don't use most of the activities for which it goes?"

It's kind of a collective effect thing, where some would argue that everyone paying a little bit benefits society as a whole even if there are some individuals who don't "get" anything for their expense. It's more an argument, I think, of selfish versus collective thinking. Granted, this is decidedly UnAmerican(TM).

That said, of course, the idea of ads in space (where I have no choice to not see them!) or "McDonald's on the moon" makes me want to vomit.

Re:When will it stop?

Fine, start a company that doesn't advertise. You'll be able to sell your product much cheaper.

Re:When will it stop?

I'm pretty sure your comment was meant sarcastically, but haven't you ever heard of generic versions? Go to a supermarket, any supermarket, but especially one that's not in the wealthiest part of town. Find a brand-name product like Oreos or Fruit Loops or Tylenol or anything else lots of people know about and purchase. How many alternative versions are on the shelf, for a little bit cheaper? You probably don't recognize the names of any of those other manufacturers. Yet the stuff sells fine.

Re:When will it stop?

how the #$%! do we avoid it and not end up in a mountain cabin being a recluse?

With this story's new development, being a mountain cabin recluse still isn't enough. You've gotta live in a cave.

Re:When will it stop?

And Osama gets the last laugh after all...

It won't. Americans need it.

Americans, by and large, have bought hook-line-and-sinker the idea of perceived value. With an entire nation of walking Gap ads, chatting up their "peeps" on a Nokia cell-shackle, how else can you arbitrate but with quality of marketing?

Trendster: Check it, Kiki. I got me an nGage.

Kiki: Eeew.

Trendster: Whatever.

[two weeks later]

Trendster: Yo, Kiki. I got me an iPod.

Kiki: Marry me.

Trendster: Solid.

Re:It won't. Americans need it.

You're putting too much thought into it.

My point is that the actual quality of the product is irrelevant. Its value, for most folks, is determined not by quality but by perceived value. What does everyone else think about this product? To wit, a Gucci/Versace/Prada bag is not valuable because of how long it lasts/how well it performs but because it will get you [insert laudatory expression] from your [insert peer-group expression]. Or, it will get you [insert copulatory expression].

Perhaps it would have been better to use a non-geek example. Geeks tend to go to the other extreme. They have a habit of wearing fringe products like medals, if there is any real quality to the product. I.e. quality (to the exclusion of perceived value) is king.

So, in geek circles, the nGage sucks because, well, it just sucks as a product. The iPod is cool because, well, it does its job, and then some. Within Geekworld, these products' perceived values are (as they should be) based on their quality. Geeks are hardly mainstream, though. Outside Geekworld you'd be hard pressed to find someone who could give you a substantial reason for saying that the nGage sucks. Or that the iPod is cool. For most Americans, value is based on the tenuous (and highly manipulable) network of popular consensus. In essence, the marketing world is providing a kind of spritual leadership for the public consciousness.

I may be missing the legal point.

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law [unvienna.org]?

Not that I can see, but the search feature [unvienna.org] was broken when I looked. I did browse around and find this:

The treaties control space-related activities of States. What about non-governmental entities active in outer space, like companies and even individuals?

The Outer Space Treaty states that States Parties shall bear international responsibility for national activities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, whether such activities are carried out by governmental agencies or non-governmental entities, and for assuring that national activities are carried out in conformity with the provisions set forth in the treaty. The Treaty further states that the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party.

Seems to refute the assertion, until other information can be found.

Even if it were some sort of violation of International Space Law, why would a patent violate that? Describing and protecting a method should not be a violation of a law, actually doing it should be a violation of the law.

Note: the views of some storm-troopers may differ from mine :)

Re:I may be missing the legal point.

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Whether launching one would violate any law or not, the existence of this patent is a good thing. Why, you ask? Because the patent (1) allows him to prevent other people from launching one and (2) doesn't give him any license to launch one himself.

Patents are a right to exclude others, not a right for you to practice.

No, I don't think so...

To paraphrase Lois Lane, I will *personally* lead the army that wipes space ads out of the sky.

Re:No, I don't think so...

While I agree with you in principle (anyone selling anti-satellite rockets, perchance?) I'd just suggest this: When the first company to take 'advantage' of this advertising strategy announces that they will do so, write them a very polite letter telling them that you will boycott every product they ever produce from now until the cold bitter end if they actually proceed. Tell them that you will then spend sizeable effort convincing friends, neighbours, your children's schoolmates, etc... to forever blacklist that company. Tell them that websites, protests, bad press and tv spots of little children looking up at the sky and saying "Why is pizza hut making it hard to use my christmas present telescope, daddy?" will be forthcoming. Granted, it'll probably take someone to actually do it, and then see massive loss in business before other companies really take notice.

Prior Art

I think Pizza Hut has some prior art from 1999 [flatoday.com] on this one unless that Russian was behind the deal.

Re:Prior Art

This is a very different device being claimed here, one that can project light down to earth, not just painting something on a rocket.

Re:Prior Art: I know, RTFA (Impracticality?)

This is a very different device being claimed here, one that can project light down to earth, not just painting something on a rocket.

So true. Mod me Embarassed!

But now that I look at this, I wonder about its practicality. The mirror constellation will either need some very large mirrors to project sunlight over "intercontinental" distances or only work for small areas at a time. (a flat mirror in GEO would only create about a 200 mile diameter cone of visiblity on Earth)

Also, he will have a bit of a trade-off on the orbit for the system. LEO will put his satellites in Earth's shadow soon after dark (his sats will compete with dusk and then go dark). LEO is also hit-or-miss on whether the sats are flying over the target audience at exactly dusk (perhaps a resonant orbit would work). GEO provides better light and is stationary above the target audience, but the constellation will need to be much bigger (span hundreds of miles) and the mirrors much bigger to create a visible sign.

They've Come A Long Way

From communism to advertisements in space :) Still a sad commentary on capitalism and society, when not even space is safe from advertisers.

Careful Now.

One foul up and we could all end up being told to "go stick your head in a pig"

Prior Art?

Can't Chairface Chippendale [thetick.ws] claim prior art on space ads?

Re:Prior Art?

I think there is "prior art on this ". I recall some flak with McDonalsd or someone like that looking to shine a golden arches up there somehow several years back.

Just a concept

Let's not get all worked up yet, it's just an idea some wacky russian had.

As if there weren't already enough evidence...

...that Matt Groening was a prophet. *shakes head sadly*

I wonder to what extent the patent is attributable to the numerous examples of this kind of behaviour in traditional science-fiction and popular media such as Futurama?

Re:As if there weren't already enough evidence...

Sorry, Philip K. Dick got this one decades ago (Sales Pitch, 1954). I'm always suprised at the lack of sci-fi exploration out of the 'top 5', even by slashdot readers.

Correction

He hasn't patented the idea of adverts in space, as the precis suggests, he's patented a device for displaying them. A fairly important distinction

Little Dipper...

By Pampered Chef, only $19.99.

A giant DLP monitor?

The article says it would use solar reflectors mounted on satellites to create the messages. In other words, each reflector could be considered a pixel in the display. I suppose it could work sort of like a giant DLP monitor [dlp.com]. Now we just need a giant color wheel that could double as a space station.

Re:A giant DLP monitor?

Imagine the rainbow effect you'd get if the refresh rate wasn't high enough; launch a new ad campaign, and half the planet calls in sick with a blinding headache.

Heh.

Aren't you actually required to have a prototype?

Did he just point to a Coke can and say "Like this, but big!"

Prior art already exists

Various forms of space art [spaceart.net] have already explored the concepts and while they haven't used them specifically advertise, they already use reflectivity and the blackness of space outside the atmosphere so that the works can be seen.

The Man Who Sold The Moon

This sounds like the "carbon powder rocket to the moon" perversity mentioned in Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold The Moon." I can imagine some companies running more discreet ads that they paid to keep the skies clear.

Reagan was right.

Antisatellite weapon have some uses.

Will This Really Be Useful?

"People would be able to see writing in the skies from the Earth no worse than they see the stars," he said.

I know I can barely see the stars at all in the city. Is this only going to work to advertise to rural areas?

Great!

Now AT&T can have finally have a Death Star circling the planet!

Letter to the Human Race:

Last night, I walked outside for a bit because it was such a beautiful evening (night). I looked up into the sky and just froze for about 10 minutes. The starlit night sky was just breathtaking and I couldn't help myself from just staring up and my flesh was acrawl with goosebumps. The ultimate humbling experience. For a moment, I left the confinds of my earthly hell and felt at peace amongst the bright pinpoints of light.
I get enough of the human race here on earth, let me have the sky as my own sanctuary, please keep your popup ads to yourselves.

Even if

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Even if if didn't violate a law, there are some things so repugnant that they shouldn't be done.

-Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]

Re:Even if

Since when has that stopped anyone?

Geeks in Space?

What does this have to do with Geeks in Space [slashdot.org], the long-dormant Slashdot radio show?

This is miscategorized! And here you got my hopes up that there would be a new episode after all these years...

IANAL

Shouldn't this violate some sort of International Space Law?

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it is permitted to have patent protection on an illegal invention.

-Sean

You'll get used to it.

I remember some friends describing a trip to the then USSR and saying that Moscow is very dull and gray but they couldnt put their finger on why. They eventually realised that there was no advertising. More recently when they saw some footage of some Moscow riots there were loads of adverts plastered all over the place they commented how much nicer the place looks with bright colours and lights.

Im sure we will have the same situation in the future where you go for a holiday in some poorer country and complain that the space just looks balck and boring.

TO HELL WITH THAT!

"black and boring?"

Have you ever SEEN a clear night sky, outside of some light-polluted city or suburb?

The awe and beauty of the night sky gets washed out by crappy advertising and you tell us "you'll get used to it."

"The walls of the Grand Canyon were so dull and stone-colored. Now these billboards for s%$tburgers and cheap hotels make it so colorful and exciting!"

"This unspoiled meadow was so boring. It's SO much livlier now that it's littered with colorful flyers from local chiropractors and 10 minute oil change places!"

Screw That. F$#k that noise.

Stefan

Eat at Joes?

This would be the equivalent of projecting an advertising image on a natural landmark or such.

Imagine taking a pic of the family with Niagara Falls or (insert landmark) in the background and having a momento for the rest of your life to 'Drink Coca Cola' hovering above your heads.

It's visual pollution.

War

The day some asshat decides to pollute the night sky with a pop up that cant be killed is the day we find out if war can be declared on a company. Several million slashgeeks will figure out a way to shoot this would be obscenity down from earth. Our governments our bound not to destroy each others satelites, but private citizens are not. Especially when they start shooting from international waters.

One good thing

about the Son of Star Wars program favored by GW Bush is that at the very least, it WILL have one use:

Shooting down space spam.

(probably not, but it's fun to imagine it)

Has to be said...

It would make one HECK of a Bat Signal!!!

Won't bother me

This won't bother me. I've installed Google atmosphere, which contains space popup blocking.

This has been a possibility

This idea has been around for some time, but noone decided to patent it. Considering the many different ways you can link satellites, this is probably not the only patent that could be used for space ads.

The reason no company has decided to put up ads in space is that it would deface the only untouched place man has in this world, generating bad publicity rather than revenue.

"Now Over To The Weather Forecast..."

The temperature today will be a warm 22 degrees centigrade with humidity at 85%...

There will be a South-Westerly breeze of 12 mph...

Pepsi-rise will be at 6:14am and Nike-set will be at 8:48pm...

Look at it this way....

The patent will expire before he's ever able to make it a reality.

Red Dwarf

This reminds me of a sub-plot in the _book_ Red Dwarf (as opposed to the TV series) where there was a ship that was sent out into inter-stellar space to make stars go nova, and create a giant, pixelated "Drink Coke" message in the sky.

This was the ship that Lister and Cat found on an asteroid/moon with Kryten waiting in it (and also the one that Kryten caused to crash by "washing" the computer).

Remember When?

Adverts were once banned from the internet, as well. Also (at least in the U.S.) there were never any commercials at the beginning of movies shown in a cinema, just coming attractions. There was just too much money to be made. Same applies to Space, or any other forum/medium once its use becomes more mainstream.

Bard says

CASSIUS
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.

BRUTUS
But yonder stars tell me wonderous Enzyte shall make us underlings no longer!

Saving Hubble?

What a brave new world we live in. With such people's in it.

When space itself is fair game for Spammers and the only way to see the stars is to be OFF THE F*CKING PLANET.

At least there's still day-time.

Coming Soon

Turn your Little Dipper into a Big Dipper.

Space trash

Ok, so we all know that trash in space is going to be a growing problem as we continue to reach out to the stars. Will we be able to get laws in place saying you can't litter, and this is considered littering? Or once we've got tons of space stations and every day space travel, is advertising in space going to just become as common as billboards while you drive?