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DMCA Study Reply Comments Posted

Posted by Hemos on Thu Sep 07, 2000 12:50 AM
from the read-'em-and-weep dept.
richardbowers writes "The Library of Congress has posted the replies it received to comments collected about DMCA enforcement. Kudos go to several individuals who submitted comments, people who have also been strong contributors to the OpenLaw discussions on these topics. Big business is also represented. If you have missed the last fifteen Slashdot stories on the aim of big business to take away ownership and replace it with rental, you can see it again here. Since the reply period is now closed, you will need to take up your disgust with your Senator or Representatives, or just give something to the EFF to help them defray the costs of the inevitable and continuing lawsuits."
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  • Re:Is that it? (Score:3)

    by Pseudonym (62607) <ajb@spamcop.net> on Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:50PM (#799664)

    A lot of /., k5, advogato etc readers are not US citizens, and so can't really comment in that kind of forum. In addition, there is the IANAL problem. Many of the submissions (e.g. Time-Warner) contained legal argument (a lot of which turned out to be wrong; read the submission from the Copyright Office to see one example). The average geek cannot be expected to reply to such an argument because they don't know how. I'm sure that more than one bowed out precisely to improve the quality of the submissions past "Uhm... uhh... it's wrong! I don't know why, but it's just WRONG!"

    Sometimes people reason, rightly or wrongly, that it's easier to leave this sort of thing to the experts.

  • Re:You've got to vote by Dr.Dubious DDQ (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:07AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by poiu (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:12AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Mike Micelli (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:12AM
  • Call to Action? by _Mustang (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:15AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by ichimunki (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:12AM
  • another thing by ChadM (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:20AM
  • The DMCA replaces Title 17 with a plugin exit. by jms (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:13AM
  • Who exactly voted for the DMCA? by Orne (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:23AM
  • by bwt (68845) on Thursday September 07 2000, @06:18AM (#799673) Homepage
    I could've sworn that I submitted comments.

    There seems to be some confusion by several people saying "hey, where's my comment". There were several different opportunities to submit comments:

    1201(a) Rule Making Comments [loc.gov]
    1201(a) Rule Making Reply Comments [loc.gov]
    1201(a) Rule Making Post-Hearing Comments [loc.gov]
    Section 109 & 117 Comments [loc.gov]
    Section 109 & 117 Reply Comments [loc.gov]
    Encryption Research Comments [loc.gov] from July 1999
  • Re:You've got to vote by Steve B (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:34AM
  • The rest of the world can help with DMCA... by Dr.Dubious DDQ (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:26AM
  • Mine's not there either! by raygundan (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:39AM
  • Re:Then obviously, you're breaking the law. by Dr.Dubious DDQ (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:31AM
  • My reply comment isn't there either! by raygundan (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:41AM
  • What about anti skip memory in cd players.... by Vermifax (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:46AM
  • Re:Is that it? by Penrif (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:50PM
  • Hmmm... (Score:3)

    by BJH (11355) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:53PM (#799681)
    This is from the comment made by such illustrious organizations as the American Film Marketing Association, the Business Software Alliance, the Motion Picture Association of America, and the Recording Industry Association of America:

    B. Archival/back-up copying
    Section 117(a)(2), which allows the owner of a copy of a computer program to make an archival copy of it without the permission of the copyright owner under certain conditions, is a narrow exception to the exclusive reproduction right. Under no circumstances does section 117(a)(2) allow the
    creation of "back-up copies" of works such as sound recordings, music, audio-visual works, or databases. As at least two initial round submitters have pointed out, many pirates and distributors of pirate software products have actively disseminated misleading statements about this provision in order to give their operations a false air of legitimacy, see Interactive Digital Software Association at 5-6; SIIA at 3-4.


    If I read this correctly, wouldn't this forbid the ripping of CDs, let alone the copying of MP3s based on those ripped tracks to a player that you own?

  • Re:Quoth Time Warner by Eladio McCormick (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:56PM
  • You've got to vote (Score:5)

    by leereyno (32197) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:00PM (#799683) Homepage Journal
    The single most important thing that each of us can do is vote. Calling and writing your congressman may help, but ultimately it is what we do on election day that matters most.

    The majority of people in this country don't vote. The politicians know this. They keep very close tabs on what kind of people do vote because these are the people the politicians must keep happy in order to stay in office. Why do you think politicians from both major parties continuously pander to senior citizens? Why do you think Gore is proposing that the rest of us pay for their prescription drugs? Because senior citizens vote more than any other age group in america. Therefore what they want and need will always be represented and taken into account when any decision is made on capitol hill or the white house

    Laws like the DMCA get passed because we aren't holding our elected officials accountable for how they vote. The average person is oblivious to whats happening in their government. All they know is what they hear on TV, which most of the time is nothing but propaganda put out by rival political factions. Everyone knows that Clinton was getting it on with a 24 year old intern, but how many people know what bills he signed and vetoed last year? How many are aware of executive directives he issued and their effects?

    But whats really sad is the fact that we're all being had. Not voting has been covertly promoted for some time now. The idea that our vote doesn't count has been spoon fed to us by those who don't want to see us vote. Here we are in a country where the government is ultimately controlled by the people. Today most of them have been suckered into laying that power and responsibility down and walking away from it. Later, when that forfeited power is used against them, they do nothing but pout or maybe complain to each other and wonder what the world is coming to.

    It may not be possible to fool all of the people all of the time. But clearly it is possible to fool enough of the people enough of the time (or make them look the other way) to pass legislation which screws over everyone all of the time.

    Want to see it change? Want the DMCA and similar issues,such as the MPAA's desire to prevent you from taping TV shows, become nothing more than a bad dream? Then vote. Don't like any of the major party candidates? Vote for one from a "3rd party."

    To stand by and watch as our country is ruined makes you just as guilty as the ones doing it.

    Lee Reynolds
  • Re:Is that it? by iammichael (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:07PM
  • Re:Is that it? by iCEBaLM (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:09PM
  • Re:Sigh by Dr.Dubious DDQ (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:41AM
  • Re:Debates and /. by Flower (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:44AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Dr.Dubious DDQ (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:48AM
  • It's still (partly) their fault by Quincunx42 (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:49AM
  • by beagle (99378) on Thursday September 07 2000, @03:56AM (#799690)
    Yeah, a few comments. ;) Look [votenader.org] at what Nader stands for. I say: do NOT vote for that man! Libertarian is definitely the way to go this year.

    Check out Nader's views at his site [votenader.org]. He is very much more socialist than anything. (For a quick look at the five points in the political field, check out the libertarian party's main page [lp.org]. Quickly, though, they are: libertarian, authoritarian, conservative, liberal, and centrist.)

    In every one of his views, Nader supports giving government more control, and removing control from us. Want an example? Just pick ANY of his issues. Taxation: "we should tax things we don't like." WHO DECIDES the "things we don't like"? Government, that's who! On EVERY issue, he supports giving control to government.

    Please, please, dear Slashdotters, vote Libertarian this year. Our political system has been so corrupted by corporate influence that it barely resembles what our forefathers had in mind. They were a bunch of libertarians, favoring personal responsibility over government control. This is obvious in everything they did. Don't believe me? Go read the constitution of the United states [thefed.com] and other documents found there (the Magna Carta (on which our constitution is based), Federalist Papers, Bill of Rights, and the declaration of independence). These are amazing documents.

    Today, we have a two party system by design. We have been socially engineered to (as has been pointed out earlier) not vote. We have been socially engineered to think that political activism is wrong. Political activism is not wrong. It is not bad or immoral. Political activism is what got us our great country today, courtesy of George, and many others.

    For the first time in my life, I will not vote with my party (and will be changing my affiliation soon). I supported Ronnie in the 80s, and George after him. Most recently, I supported Mr. Bob Dole. This year, I do not support my party's nomination. Why? OK, I have changed somewhat, but my party and this political system have changed radically over the last few years.

    Today, (as I said earlier) our system is ruled by corporations. We must vote this year for a return to the land our forefathers built. We must vote the way they would have us vote. We must vote libertarian.

    Join me, dear Slashdotters, in a vote to send this message to our congressmen (and women). If we continue to vote for the status quo, status quo is what we'll get. And it seems that status quo is not what many of us here on Slashdot want. So there it is, Slashdotters. A call to action. Either vote your heart - let them know how you feel - or SHUT UP.

    There are more than two points of believe in this system (I mentioned them earlier), but that's not what the system has taught us to believe. We have more than two "choices," sure, but I see only one choice. And it's not one of the "big two" any more. The "big two" (republicans and democrats, which a friend calls republicrats) don't stand for us any more. They stand for corporate interests and their own interests.

    Let them know who is boss. Vote to return our nation to its great beginnings.

    Pshew. If you read this far, you have my thanks. If you vote with me, you have my sincerest gratitude.

  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by aardvarkjoe (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:53AM
  • Re:Who Are These Individuals? (OpenLaw) by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:59AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:02AM
  • Re:How did this RFC differ from the first? by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:03AM
  • It's nice... (Score:4)

    by DustyHodges (174738) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @07:59PM (#799695)
    It's nice to see that there are alot of expert opinions in an open forum that are actually on the Anti-DMCA. With the obvious open hostility of the judges of both the Napster and DeCSS cases, there need to be more well documented 'official' comments speaking out against the DMCA. Most of the public has blown off opponents of the DMCA as either morons or thieves, and it seriously lowers the respect people have for Anti-DMCA activists when we aren't really seen as having an official voice, except for, possibly, RMS, who is a bit too extreme to be a PR Guy.
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by SpyceQube (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:04AM
  • Re:Is that it? by Farq Fenderson (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:06AM
  • Re:Is that it? by Dr.Dubious DDQ (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:19AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Yamao (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:20AM
  • Re:Right... by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:08AM
  • Who Are These Individuals? by waldoj (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:02PM
  • Re:Who Are These Individuals? by Another MacHack (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:03PM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by Lonesmurf (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:11AM
  • ARGH! by La0tsu (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:14AM
  • Re:I don't get it. by luckykaa (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:13PM
  • Re:Is that it? by HiQ (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:14PM
  • Re:NO TRESSPASSING! by Bowie J. Paog (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:18PM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by Firedog (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:22AM
  • Re:Symptom of the vacuity of the USian spirit. by Enoch Root (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:27AM
  • Re:The DMCA replaces Title 17 with a plugin exit. by denshi (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:31AM
  • Re:An interesting comment... by rst (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:14AM
  • Libertarianism hurts big business by Sloppy (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:32AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by richardbowers (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:15AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Sloppy (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:37AM
  • Re:You've got to vote^h^h^h^h LOBBY by musique (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:37AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Ex-NT-User (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:15AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Masem (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:18AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by MindStalker (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:42AM
  • Digital audio extraction is legal by Tom_N (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:49AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by Lonesmurf (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:19AM
  • Re:Digital audio extraction is legal by Tom_N (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:56AM
  • Are you sure it doesn't apply to you (us)? by superdoo (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:23AM
  • by bwt (68845) on Thursday September 07 2000, @07:57AM (#799723) Homepage
    I just sent the email below to my House representative. It's pretty easy to do this online at the sight
    http://www.house.gov/writerep/
    __________________________________

    To the Honorable Lamar S. Smith:

    I am an Oracle database consultant in your district. I work at Randolf Air Force Base in San Antonio, supporting the Air Force Recruiting Service.

    I write to you to express my very strong concern that the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, which passed in 1998, is a bad law that urgently needs to be revised or even repealed. I believe that the law does not adequately reflect the "delicate balance" that several hundred years of copyright jurisprudence has created. The troublesome section is 1201 of the Copyright Act (Title 17).

    My objections to this law are as follows:

    - It guts "Fair Use" completely
    - It stiffles competition, especially that of "open source" software
    - It risks antitrust abuse by creating two separate rights "access" and "copyright" that industry trusts exploit through tying and collusion
    - The reverse engineering 1201(f) exception is too narrow and is unclear
    - The encryption research 1201(g) exception is too narrow and is unclear
    - Despite 1201(c)(4) and 1203(b)(1), the law is being used to chill open discourse and free speech on the science of computer security matters
    - The law is ambiguous if copyright owner authority to access can be retained after "First Sale" of the copy, contradicting the "just rewards" purpose of the copyright monopoly and diminishing property rights
    - Protecting insecure systems with laws fosters insecurity not security; Most computer scientists support "full disclosure" of security flaws.

    I do not support piracy, and recognize that authors deserve financial reward as inducement to create. I note however that there is no "intent" language in the law: it reaches far beyond piracy into the realm of legitimate activity. The attempt to create enumerated exceptions fails miserably to address this. Just as fair use must be judged on a case-by-case basis, so too would a claim of "fair access".

    This bill appears to go beyond what is needed by granting wholesale control of the use of sold works to the copyright holder, who all to often isn't even the actual author, but is a corporate mammoth. I am not willing to sacrifice my intellectual property rights as a consumer to line the coffers of the MPAA and RIAA. I am certainly not willing to stiffle the free speech rights of open source programmers, who give generously to the intellectual commons, and exemplify copyright's calling "to promote the progress of science".
  • by richardbowers (143034) on Thursday September 07 2000, @04:24AM (#799724)
    The single most important thing that each of us can do is vote. Calling and writing your congressman may help, but ultimately it is what we do on election day that matters most.

    There's something even more important that you can do. It isn't fun and it takes more time than beating Diablo II on Hell level. Here it is: Run for office.

    How many times have you complained about the idiots we have running the country? What would it take for you to do better?

    One nice thing about Slashdot readers is that we tend to move in herds. There are geographical regions that are packed with nerds (nerd-herds?), and could probably support city council or state legislature positions for people with brains. If we get enough of a critical mass at the lower levels, it shouldn't be too hard to move up.

    Even if you won't run, or can't, try finding those candidates that can and helping them out. It could be financial help, or it could be coding them a new web page. It could be offering to speak at a party fundraiser, if you are well-known enough, putting a link on your home-page, submitting stories about their good works to Slashdot, whatever - just do something.

    ============================================
    Law is whatever is boldly asserted and plausibly maintained. -- Aaron Burr

  • Re:Is that it? by borzwazie (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:25AM
  • Re:Is that it? by BJH (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:21PM
  • Re:Is that it? by PotatoHead (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:27PM
  • Re:Hmmm... by Chagrin (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:27PM
  • Re:Hmmm... (Score:3)

    by cpt kangarooski (3773) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:32PM (#799729) Homepage
    IANAL, but no, curiously. While you can't back up music for the sake of having a backup, you can space-shift it in order to use it with other devices (e.g. taping a CD to listen to it in a car that only has a casette player; ripping a CD to use on an mpeg player)

    So while you probably can't make a backup set of CDs (although I wouldn't worry about it - one of the important things that has to be looked at is how you've harmed the copyright holder. In the case of backups, probably not at all) you can rip stuff to mpeg players... as long as you're really gonna listen to it.

    Funny old world, huh?

    Of course, while pirates make a lot of misleading statements, it's also well known that groups like the RIAA and MPAA make their own fair share of misleading statements. You want something more clear? Don't trust any of 'em - read the decisions of the relevant court cases.
  • Re:You've got to vote by maraist (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:14AM
  • Re:another thing by Tom_N (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:16AM
  • Re:Who exactly voted for the DMCA? by Tom_N (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:18AM
  • Re:Is that it? by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:31AM
  • Are you frigging kidding?!! by cosmosis (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:24AM
  • Logic and 117(b) by maninblackhat (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:42AM
  • Public Education by Booker (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:34AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by jafac (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:53AM
  • $100 = EFF by eries (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:34AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by jafac (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @08:56AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by leereyno (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @09:24AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:41AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by leereyno (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @09:38AM
  • by LordNimon (85072) on Thursday September 07 2000, @04:43AM (#799743)
    Please, please, dear Slashdotters, vote Libertarian this year. Our political system has been so corrupted by corporate influence that it barely resembles what our forefathers had in mind.

    I was under the impression that Libertarians favor a very small government, and this means more of a hands-off role with business. If so, then a Libertarian government is just going to give businesses more freedom to screw us over.
    --

  • Re:You've got to vote by kd5biv (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:44AM
  • Re:Hmmm... by BJH (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:48PM
  • by Lonesmurf (88531) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @11:01PM (#799746) Homepage
    but the rest of the world is watching to see how the DMCA is going to hold up in court and what the corporations intend to do with it. I already know of some bills that are being drafted in a number of countries in the EU that are suspiciously akin to the DMCA. The backers of the DMCA have a lot of power and their reach is certainly farther than the shores of the US.

    I do, however, agree wholeheartedly with you that the responses the government (in the US, now, perhaps in the future, otherwise) recieves should be courteous and well-informed. I would personally like to see hundreds upon hundreds of well-written, thoughtful, and though-provoking letters pile up on the desks of the politicians in the US. Unfortunatly, the simple fact of the matter is that there is a distinct lack of informed and (this is the sad part) intelligent people that have the knowhow, ability, and urge to write to congress and their representatives.

    I have read through this thread a few times, and I have come to the conclusion that the problems at hand won't be solved by votes. They will be solved by public awareness (do I hear a drum beating?) and a large campaign that is in the spotlight. There are thousands of kids out there that not only buy CDs (and they do, en masse) but downloads MP3s. It is in their best interests to be aware of the problem and at least take a stand. This is particularly important because we all know that most people over 30 DON'T CARE. (Fire? No, I don't smell fire. Flames? What? What?). Personally, I am writing to the papers and the media in the hopes that I can get in the editorials of maybe be able to get a reporter to do a good, honest, and unbiased story on the DMCA and it's repercussions.

    Write your politicians,
    Write your local media,
    Vote,
    Organize the young and untainted,
    DO SOMETHING!

    Rami
    --
  • Where are our heavyweights? by kwclark (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:54PM
  • Re:Who Are These Individuals? by eclectro (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @11:04PM
  • Sue sue sue ! by bytesex (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @11:04PM
  • An interesting comment... by Schwarzchild (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @11:09PM
  • by iCEBaLM (34905) <icebalm&icebalm,com> on Thursday September 07 2000, @09:51AM (#799751)
    While this is mostly true, if we really wanted we could do what New Zealand and other countries have done.

    Outlaw any and all region code honoring DVD devices, as they do infringe on the GATT (WTO).

    It is ILLEGAL to sell a region code honoring DVD device in New Zealand, and it should be the same way in every nation which has signed the UN charter.

    -- iCEBaLM
  • Choice nugget by discHead (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:03AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Levien (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:09AM
  • by bee (15753) on Thursday September 07 2000, @04:45AM (#799754) Homepage Journal
    What we really need is approval voting. What this means: you get a list of all the candidates for office, and you vote yes or no on each one. The candidate with the highest number of yes votes wins the election.

    This lets people express their vote much better than standard methods. Do you like Nader but don't think he has a chance to win, and would rather not see Bush win? Vote yes to Gore and Nader and no to everyone else. Hate the major parties? Vote no to Bush AND Gore, and yes to everyone else. Fed up with the whole process? Vote no to everyone. This last option actually has influence under approval voting-- imagine how it would look if the winning candidate was approved by less than 30 percent of the voters. A side benefit is that it encourages candidates to not engage in negative campaigning, since it's easier to increase their own approval than decrease everyone else's.

    The best part is that implementing this doesn't require changing the Constitution, or anything so drastic. Local voting laws are all that need to be changed. Personally I believe that all we'd need is one state to implement state-wide approval voting, and the natural publicity from that would take it from there.

    ---
  • Re:Approval voting is what we need by bridgette (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:14AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by Lonesmurf (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:46AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Levien (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:31AM
  • Re:You've got to vote (You've got to participate!) by Danse (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:34AM
  • Preferential Voting, Compulsorary Voting by DHam (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:55AM
  • How to post comment to LOC by whitemouse (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:34AM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by Lonesmurf (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @04:55AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Anonymous Covard (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:38AM
  • Excellent letter... by Danse (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:40AM
  • Re:Who Are These Individuals? by bwt (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:06AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Fesh (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:11AM
  • Re:Call to Action? by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:12AM
  • Re:It's nice... (Score:3)

    by tuxedo-steve (33545) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @09:59PM (#799767)
    The tendancy of the general public is always to go with what they've been brought up to believe as "right" - in a sense, the mass public reaction to the DMCA issues (mainly DeCSS) reminds me very much of the reaction to 'net censorship (especially here in Australia), the hype around any given Doom-'em-up, even Ninja Turtles back ten odd years ago. Censorship protects the children, Doom & Ninja Turtles make people hurt each other, the DMCA is about fair play. Are Joe and Jane Citizen more likely to side, prima facie, with the Government and the Media, or the morally-questionable extremists who disagree with them?
  • Re:Is that it? by Talonius (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:21PM
  • "USian" vs. "American" by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:26PM
  • Re:Buy or rental? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:28PM
  • by Skald (140034) on Thursday September 07 2000, @12:07AM (#799771)
    The single most important thing that each of us can do is vote. Calling and writing your congressman may help, but ultimately it is what we do on election day that matters most.

    I must respectfully disagree. I believe that the most important thing you can do, in a case like this, is to educate the candidates.

    As leyreno points out, politicians like to know who's voting, and what they care about. As the case presently stands, most of them know little about these issues, and have no idea that some of their constituents care strongly about them.

    Think about it... do you have an anti-DMCA candidate running in your district? Probably not... so simply voting won't likely do any good. Besides, if all you do is vote, the candidates don't know who you voted for or why. But if you write a few letters, or explain the issue on the phone to a staffer, the issue begins to pop up on the fellow's radar.

    Some politicians, if they come to understand the issues at stake, will tend to agree on their own accord. All of them take notice when a significant number of people tell them about the issue that will decide their vote. It's different dealing with an incumbent than with a challenger, but the basic tactic is the same: bartering your promised votes for their promised votes.

    For the highly motivated, there are local party platform committees. Not to mention simply running for office yourself... state legislature seats are often uncontested. Yeah, I know, not the most pleasant prospect, but somebody's got to do it.

  • Re:You've got to vote by Baki (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @12:16AM
  • International readers? by Kublai (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @12:20AM
  • Yeah, I noticed that too by eclectro (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @12:53AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by pnkfelix (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @01:04AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by dlgree1 (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @10:48AM
  • Re:You've got to vote (You've got to participate!) by Skald (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @11:12AM
  • Re:International readers? by richardbowers (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:16AM
  • Re:ATTN PONCE BRITS by Bowie J. Poag (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @11:56AM
  • interesting stuff in Time Warner's reply by jbridge21 (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:18AM
  • YRO: What would Scot McNeely say? by paled (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:23PM
  • Re:Are you sure it doesn't apply to you (us)? by RickHunter (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @12:18PM
  • by Carnage4Life (106069) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:24PM (#799783) Homepage Journal
    How is it that they've been chosen to be included in this?

    Remember all those highly moderated posts on the numerous DCMA articles on slashdot exhorting us to write congress, etc.
    These are the people who actually wrote and called instead of karma whoring on slashdot and preaching to the choir.



  • Re:Is that it? by Eric Seppanen (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:29AM
  • Re:Is that it? by FFFish (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:30AM
  • Is that it? (Score:4)

    by vertical-limit (207715) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:27PM (#799786)
    Out of all the Slashdot, kuro5hin, and advogate readers, fewer than ten bothered to submit comments on the most important act of Congress in our generation? If that's it, that's a pretty sad commentary on how empty most of our rhetoric is. We rant and rave on these threads all day, but never take a moment to explain our views to the outside world. You there, reading this post -- have you done anything about DMCA? If you're a typical Slashdot reader, probably not.

    It's time for the anti-IP community to put its money where its mouth is. Contact your Congressmen, write some editorial letters, stage a demonstration, e-mail the Library of Congress -- just do something. We can't win this fight by sitting back and bragging about how much smarter we are. Is there any sort of organization devoted to opposing IP? An organized resistance with some key spokespeople -- RMS, or Linus himself, or Shawn Fanning, or some other household name -- would do wonders for our cause. Right now, we're suffering from a PR problem: Big business has successfully spun this into an issue of thievery. We need to put the issue back in favorable terms; convince people that this isn't about stealing, but freedom and the right to fair use. And what about a catchy slogan?

    Remember, all that is necessary to evil to triumph is the absence of good. Let's put aside our elitism and bring back the forces of good. Stop talking about what you could do and do something.

  • Re:You've got to vote by crtreece (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:57PM
  • Re:Preferential Voting, Compulsorary Voting by Steve B (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:32AM
  • Re:It's nice... by psyfir (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:37PM
  • Re:Maybe not citizens, .. by GodOfHellfire (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:35AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Steve B (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:38AM
  • Re:Walter Charles Beckett... by wnissen (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:38AM
  • Sigh by The Cookie Monster (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:28PM
  • by Talonius (97106) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:30PM (#799794) Homepage Journal
    is the fact that most of the corporations are attempting to have the LOC throw out prior comments based on the fact that "they are not applicable" and that Congress had not ordered a complete review of DMCA apparently; only certain sections. See http://www.loc.gov/copyright/reports/studies/dmca/ reply/Reply006.pdf for one particularly disturbing instance.

    Since the replies they are attempting to throw out are lucid and well thought out, I'd wager they feel threatened by the logic. This is reminescent of the "if I can't see them they can't see me" mindset.

    The DMCA and UCITA are starting to remind me of the Salem Witch Trials. "IF THEY'RE NOT PROVEN INNOCENT, THEY'RE GUILTY!" When did the golden law only become used in a criminal court, and when you're not guilty there you get sued in a civil court because the requirements for "liable" are less than "guilty"?

    Yes, I am an Elite Hacker (sorry, 3l33t 4ax0r or whatever). I rip MP3s to my HD for distribution to the world. No, really, I do. With my 128kb upload rate, I welcome the world to my 20GB of MP3s! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT MY STEREO IS IN THE OTHER ROOM AND THE SPEAKERS ON MY COMPUTER ARE BETTER THAN MY STEREO (sad, but true).

    My wanting to play DVDs has *nothing* to do with an unsupported box. Do I have access to Windows? Yes, but that doesn't mean I want to slap a DVD drive in that box!

    BTW, I didn't submit to the LOC (as stated below or above depending on how you thread) but I can say I've written my congressman. That doesn't require legal ability; it only requires me to express my opinion in a lucid manner. Whether the information I "think" I know on the DMCA is FUD or not, the perceived can be as powerful as the reality.

    -- Talonius

  • Re:Is that it? by Claude Debussy (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:36PM
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:41PM (#799796)
    For who?

    This is a common argument, but it always fails in the same way:

    Who are you supposed to vote for?
    In most elections, when you look at most any issue, both of the candidates (eg., the ones with a possibility of winning that is not exactly zero) will act the same on that issue. You might say, "Well, they'll vote the same, but candidate B is less of a scumbag" but that's still dodging the issue.

    In a representative democracy, you're supposed to vote for the person to represent you. If neither candidate represents you, then there's little point in voting. You can basically:

    1. Pick one at random
    2. Pick an irrelevant candidate (any third party, write in, whatever)
    3. Not vote
    The first is essentially being dishonest, while the second means that your vote is basically useless: You voted, but you will not under any circumstances be represented. The only advantage to this over not voting is really just to artificially enhance the voter turnout numbers, to no particular advantage to your position.

    Perhaps some will hope that the winning candidate will give the poll results a quick glance and say, "Oh! 2% of the people voted for the Wurlitzer Party! I must pay attention to their needs." But of course, this is ridiculous. 40% voted for the Other candidate, so under that logic their needs would be nearly the most important. In reality, the winner always takes winning as a vindication for their own ideas: they won, so they must be right.

    There are ways to influence politicians, but just arbitrarily increasing the voter count won't do it. It's not like anyone monitors the number of Voters Who Require Sensible Copyright Laws, nor would anyone care if such figures existed. Most people are happy as long as they don't get arrested, aren't starving, and don't think they're less well off than the next guy. Abstract things like rights? Pah. And Civil Liberties? Damn those new-age punks, always trying to take their indecent liberties and such!

  • Re:You've got to vote by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @10:49PM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Comedian (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @01:05AM
  • Store it, but DON'T ACCESS IT! by Happy Monkey (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @01:15AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by nevets (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @01:49AM
  • Re:You've got to vote -- not neccessarily by flimflam (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @01:58AM
  • Debates by kmem (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @02:00AM
  • Re:International readers? by kurokaze (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @02:01AM
  • by The G (7787) on Thursday September 07 2000, @02:13AM (#799804)
    In a representative democracy, you're supposed to vote for the person to represent you. If neither candidate represents you, then there's little point in voting. You can basically:

    1.Pick one at random
    2.Pick an irrelevant candidate (any third party, write in, whatever)
    3.Not vote


    You always have the option to spoil your ballot, or to go into the booth, don't pick anyone, leave the booth. This is recorded as not voting for anyone -- a fairly clear mandate if enough of us were to do so.

    They'll know that you care enough to vote and that you reject the system. That's about all you can hope for.
    --G
  • Re:Who Are These Individuals? by Saint Aardvark (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:27PM
  • Re:Is that it? by BJH (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:10PM
  • Re:Right... by BJH (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:16PM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Pres. George W. Bush (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @07:25PM
  • How did this RFC differ from the first? by Chagrin (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:32PM
  • Quoth Time Warner by CynTHESis (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:33PM
  • Re:Preferential Voting, Compulsorary Voting by DHam (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @09:48PM
  • Token Freak by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:35PM
  • Re:Preferential Voting, Compulsorary Voting by Steve B (Score:2) Friday September 08 2000, @12:54AM
  • Silly Walter Charles Becktel! by Captain Pillbug (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:37PM
  • Re:ATTN PONCE BRITS by Bowie J. Poag (Score:1) Friday September 08 2000, @06:12PM
  • Right... by BJH (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:40PM
  • Re:YRO: What would Scot McNeely say? by mkldev (Score:1) Monday September 11 2000, @11:30AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by EricEldred (Score:2) Monday September 11 2000, @05:23PM
  • Re:Who Are These Individuals? by waldoj (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:38AM
  • SIAA comments by kindbud (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:47AM
  • Then obviously, you're breaking the law. by Jeff Reed (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:50AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by Masem (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @02:19AM
  • by Nezumi-chan (110160) on Thursday September 07 2000, @02:32AM (#799823)
    Pick an irrelevant candidate (any third party, write in, whatever) ... the second means that your vote is basically useless: You voted, but you will not under any circumstances be represented. The only advantage to this over not voting is really just to artificially enhance the voter turnout numbers, to no particular advantage to your position.

    I suppose that if you're force-fed lies all your life, you'll come to believe Lies are Good Food.

    I've noticed since I was a child that the media, particularly in the US, spends a great deal of time discouraging votors from voting for third party candidates. As such, most Americans seem to have come to the conclusion that third party candidates are a wasted vote and nothing will change that.

    I've never been sure what underlies this sort of misinformation. Is it that the media has a vested interest in keeping the same sorts of parties in power and thus have little potential change to the playing field they have mastered? Is it that they don't wish to offend powerful corporate interests that may well be harmed by the policies of third party candidates, should they be successful? Perhaps it could be the long-standing "US Number One" myth that holds that the US political system is superior to all others and thus has no need for change? I really don't know. It could be none of these, yet the myth persists.

    Others have pointed out exceptions to this spurious rule (or rather, self-fulfilling prophecy, when spread witht he weight of the American Media Machine) such as Jesse Ventura. Let me add the entire Canadian system. At one point no one took the New Democratic Party seriously. Nobody thought the Bloc Quebeqois would evern amount to anything outside of Quebec. The Reform Party was just a regional party full of reactionary rednecks. Yet they have all prospered on the Federal stage. rightly or wrongly, whether I agree with their policies or not, their presence, and their use of votes which have definitely not been wasted, has stimulated debate on political issues in this country on an unprecedented level.

    Personally, I believe the US political system has a great deal of potential, if only you can abandon your cherished myths against third party candidates and allow new voices into the mix.

  • Re:My reply comment isn't there either! by bwt (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:53AM
  • Re:You've got to vote by semprebon (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @02:33AM
  • Re:Store it, but DON'T ACCESS IT! by Soruk (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @02:34AM
  • When nobody fits.... by The Queen (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:55AM
  • Re:Debates and /. by jhines (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @02:50AM
  • Here's a list of examples by whitemouse (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:55AM
  • Re:It's nice... by tuxedo-steve (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @05:59AM
  • by totoro (81409) on Thursday September 07 2000, @02:58AM (#799831)
    > For who?

    If the choice is really so bad, write in "None of the Above'. There is a movement about to make this a valid choice for elections. If the 'None of the Above" wins, the election if forfeited and new candidates are selected. It is a novel idea, if nothing else, and it guarantees that the person in office is who the people really think that they want.

  • DMCA Votes by BLKMGK (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:09AM
  • Re:Store it, but DON'T ACCESS IT! by bwt (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @06:03AM
  • You are all missing the point by moopster (Score:1) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:12AM
  • Re:International readers? by schon (Score:2) Thursday September 07 2000, @03:15AM
  • Re:Is that it? (Score:5)

    by aqua (3874) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:46PM (#799836)
    These aren't all the comments. Leastways mine isn't there, and I endeavoured to be as calm, polite and rational as possible. Most of the comments appear similar to the ones submitted back when slashdot ran the original article on this specific issue. I'd be interested to know what portion of the comments submitted by both sides were published; the big-money media companies seem fairly well represented. Is this even the right page?
  • Walter Charles Beckett... by vertical-limit (Score:1) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:47PM
  • Re:Is that it? (Score:3)

    by BJH (11355) on Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:47PM (#799838)
    Please remember that around half of "typical Slashdot readers" can't comment on the DMCA through the methods you give because they don't live in the US.

  • Buy or rental? by Kierthos (Score:2) Wednesday September 06 2000, @08:48PM
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