As an application programmer I don't care. I don't want to implement remote display in individual applications and I am not going to.

As a user I want my remote display. I've been to the Wayland website. I've read the FAQ. I don't see ANYTHING that gives me the idea that I will be able to keep using remote login sessions when Wayland has replaced X.

Who cares? That seems to be all that Wayland supporters can talk about.. how things should work internally. Users don't care! We care THAT it works! For the user, correct questions to be answering are:

Will I be able to do what I do now when my favorite distro switches to Wayland?

Will I be able to do what I do now when my favorite apps stop supporting X?

Will I be able to do what I do now when new apps come out that I want to use and have no legacy support for X?

These are kinds of questions that matter to users. The correct answers are either Yes or No. They do not involve compositors, APIs, protocol names, etc...

Shortly after these questions are answered comes the next one.

Can I just get ahead of the curve and do it using Wayland now?

If yes then the correct answer is a manual. Something the user can read that says install X, Y and Z. Edit config files 1, 2 and 3. Or run ... configuration utility, etc... Actual information one can use to get what they are after, not treatises on which network protocol is better.

Thanks but the point of my post which you replied to wasn't really that we need more explanations of what a compositor is or what all these other terms that the Wayland developers like to talk about mean. My point is that for Wayland to be acceptable we need actual instructions, T FM to R that gives us actual steps to take to get Wayland to do the things we are using X for now.

X users (not developers) don't need to know all the debates about different protocols or why Wayland makes things easier for low level developers. We need to know how, in a post-X world we can make our computers do what they already do for us today. Furthermore, we don't need reassurance that we can just run X under Wayland. That's been established. What good will it do us if the applications we use stop supporting X?

Telling us that X isn't already supporting remote display because the Compositor or something is doing the actual drawing is assenine. As a user what I know now is that I can have an X terminal connect to my Linux computer and use it just as though I was on my PC. Everything I read says I can't do that if I switch to Wayland.

Wayland supporters need to just tell us how to make Wayland run remotely. I know there have been patches submitted towards that end. Does it work? Or, admit to us that it doesn't. Then tell us that our feature will be available long before we HAVE to use Wayland.

Or tell us that the features that we use today are going away and will never be supported. In that case though, Wayland is a regression and should never be allowed to replace X in any normal Linux or Unix distribution.

So a patch was submitted. Was it accepted? Can a USER now simply RTFM, type some magic commands and then it works, just as easily as with X? All I see is a bunch of talk about protocols and how things might work behind the scenes. The only reference I see for an end user is the statement on the Wayland FAQ which remains unchanged, remote display is outside of the scope of Wayland. Someone can implement it themselves if they want it.

"Wayland is exactly as network-transparent as X11 is in actual use these days: not very but you can make it work. Everyone is pretty much asking X11 for a drawing canvas, drawing on it, then giving it to a compositor to display. See above comments about beautifully anti-aliased fonts."

From the perspective of a low-level programmer working on Xorg and/or Wayland this is probably true. They certainly say it enough. As a user I'm not even entirely sure what a compositor is. However, I can create an X terminal in a few minutes by just doing a bare-bones Debian install with X but no desktop manager. Then a quick rc script edit makes it automatically start X and connect to my XDMCP server. From that point on all I have to do is hit the power button and I have the illusion of being at my main desktop PC. I don't really care how X is or isn't making this happening so long as it works!

Knowing nothing about compositors, 3d or 2d APIs or the source code of Weston how the hell will I do this when Wayland has replaced X? Do I have to learn write my own compositor? I already do aplicaiton programming for a living but when these Wayland guys talk I have no idea what the hell they are going on about. What will I have to learn to make Wayland work remotely? Where would I even begin?

Or.. until the applications I want to run no longer support it I can just keep using X. But what then?

Maybe Potering and his other buddies at RedHat are great, the best thing since sliced bread.... but... they are working on the wrong OS. These guys don't belong in Linux. They belong working on ReactOS! Imagine ReactOS with all of RedHat's resources behind it. It could quickly be a better Windows than Microsoft's! Meanwhile those of us who like Linux as Unix and aren't in the market for "Free Windows" can go on enjoying a better Unix than Unix. We could all be happy!

I don't know what you want your OS to do but I think we live in very different worlds.

You mean Los Zetas?

And somehow force all the travelers they encounter to sample their bodily fluids? You know the virus isn't airborne.

Use a seven or eight word password made from common words. Actually, just make it a sentence. That will make it much easier to remember. So the password crackers can 'limit' their search to valid words. So what? If you had a seven character password of random, hard to guess characters a password guessing script would have to get seven positions correct with about 70 or so possible characters for each position. If you had seven words AND even if the password guessing script was written to expect words it would stil have seven positions to guess. With how many possibilities per position? How big is the dictionary?

Can we please stop supporting these "license plate" passwords already. They are just a pain in the ass.

Oh, and password managers? Really? So you can spend all that time making separate passwords for every place you need them just to place them all behind one password that gives an attacker the keys to everything. Yup, that makes a lot of sense!

escapist fantasy please!

>>It's expected to be a big hit.
Yah, it's a real blast!

It's a government organization. Well balanced people have never been allowed there. Next you will realize that exactly the kind of people who are attracted to politics are the ones who should NEVER EVER be given any power. I dub thee Captain Obvious.

And tomorrow they will ask.. have you ever masturbated. If you do they won't hire you. If you lie they won't hire you!

Speak for yourself, who's we?