If an oil company had did this "hide the decline" then the climate science community would have said it was obviously unscientific behavior. But climate scientists are so biased they cant even admit the rules of good science. If your oppinents say the data is not irrelevant, then you are not supposed to leave it out of the graph to make it cleaner. If the trees are giving falsely low temperatures then that is important information about their credibility. If his opponents say contray data is not fully explained then a scientist is not supposed to decide for himself that contrary data is fully explained. He is supposed to include it and explain it. If the trees weren't giving falsely low temperatures then there would have been nothing for Phil Jones to hide in his own words. The decline wasn't in plain sight or he wouldn't have used the word hide. He left it out of the graph for a reason. He hid it because people would realize his tree rings were unreliable. He hid it because he knew many people wouldn't dig in far enough to realize what he had hidden.

DeadCatX2 wrote:
"wondering whether you agree with the fact that I was modded down to -1 for providing evidence contrary to your post."

Although you shouldn't have advocated breaking the moderation rules, you still shouldn't have been moded down. My partial rebuttal is above.

There is no -1 incorrect mod choice because it is against the rules to mod down for that.

"I'd say "Overrated" works well for someone who really is wrong."

No. If I admitted a simple mistake of fact or something then you could go back and mod me down, but the moderation rules prohibit moding somebody overrated on a controversial topic just because you think you have solid reason to say somebody really is wrong. Large majoriies of scientists have been convinced of wrong things before. They're not infallible. On a controversial subject you are only supposed to post a rebuttal not bury with downmods. You will lose your moderator privileges for that.

Your source contradicts itself

DeadCatX2 quoted some source:
"Tree-ring growth has been found to match well with temperature ... However, tree-rings in some high-latitude locations diverge from modern instrumental temperature records after 1960."

If the tree rings are showing falsely low temperatures after 1960 then it is questionabe at best if they were not giving falsely low temperatures back during the medieval warm period. It is a rule of science that you are not supposed to hide such evidence especially if your opponents say it is significant.

To say it was not hiding is rediculous since the alarmist Phil Jones himself described what he was doing as hiding. Burying data deep in an academic paper the public won't see is still hiding. Sure the experts were debating it, but it was hiden from the public who wouldn't look deeper than the graph.

I would have replied earlier but my battery died and i lost my post. I'll have more.

It is against the moderation rules to mod somebody down even if they REALLY ARE wrong. Especially if it is a controversial issue. I'll address the argument in a minute.

The whitewashes explicity decided not to invetigate Mann's "hide the decline" because he did it and it couldn't be denied. Hiding contrary evidence is a no no in science, Especially after your opponents have made it clear that they think that contrary evidence is significant. You have to include it in your graph and explain it, not leave it out. Worse, nearly the entire climate science community has defended this unscientific conduct, destroying the credibility of the entire community. And they continue to put forth the deception that he was exonerated from this misconduct. One of their leaders was quoted by Discover magazine as saying that they had to choose between honesty and effectiveness. We now know what they chose. It was not defamation because it was an opinion based on at least arguable, if not obviously true evidence. Remember it is against the moderation rules to mod somebody down just because you think they are wrong. It is also not flamebait if it is a sincerely held belief put forward for honest discussion.

US law now allows the military to imprison you for life without trial. See the NDAA. or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKaTxjxnYfE This was signed into law by Obama. There is an exemption for American citizens from the requirement that the military take them to Guantanamo Bay, but the exemption is only to the requirement, the military still has the OPTION to imprison you forever without trial. The law says it is only for suspected terrorists, but the law only requires suspicion, not proof, and anyone can be suspected of being a terrorist. It has been claimed that there is a requirement for one hearing before a judge but I haven't seen that in the law. It boggles my mind that Congress and Obama think it is a good idea to make it legal for the military to secretly snatch you in the middle of the night and imprison you for life without trial on mere suspicion.

Disturbingly they seem to have considered not wiping and reinstalling.

System is being verified from backups, signatures, etc. As of right
now things look correct, however we MAY take the system down soon to do
a full reinstall and for more invasive checking.

(emphasis added) John 'Warthog9' Hawley
Chief Kernel.org Administrator http://pastebin.com/BKcmMd47

It appears that the chief kernel.org system administrator is so naive about security that he doesn't even realize the absolute necessity of a full wipe and reinstall after compromise of such an important site. It also appears that there was no routine booting from read only media to check system files and startup scripts for changes. And no daily rootkit scan. If it was me, I would trash the motherboard for fear of BIOS or other firmware contamination. Exploits living on the firmware of network cards and other places have been demonstrated.

>voice rec dont work if you are drunk up on vodka

Voice recognition of lies doesn't work at all. So it seems these bankers have fallen prey to a kind of ATM ripoff before they even deployed these ATMs.