Definitely some solid points there. Anybody can indeed make mistakes that's for sure. I guess my main point was that I saw a couple people commenting saying that the certs are bullshit, but I really don't think they are, it's more about the person who has them. I have some friends that took the old MCP exam and the first 100 pages of the book they were reading was all about hyper threading. So there's definitely more than just clicking Next, Next, Next, like some people are saying on here, so you can't just hire any idiot. In my own personal experience with MS tests, you really have to read and apply best practices. Sometimes there are 2 right answers, but one is just a *little* bit more right than the other. I think those who can distinguish the difference between a partly correct way to do something and the 100% MS way to do something comes from learning their tried and true methods. I agree with you about the kernel dumps too. Those simple skills are crucial even when you work in a simple repair shop. Surprised the MCITP's didn't know how! But not too surprised ;-) *back to my dark and dingy UNIX cave*