> for crying out loud manufactures shouldn't even need to be told to do this.

They shouldn't need to be told to put the price up so that they'll end up selling fewer phones (hint: if your phone is stolen you need to buy a new phone) ? I think there's a chance they already know this...

> Ah, right, that is UK, so they are likely busy detaining journalists as terrorists, there
> is no time to fight petty theft and muggers.

Given enough of an outcry they'll turn their attention to this particular crime, which will result in a large reduction in this particular crime, and the police can announce the last year vs this year figures (whilst not showing the increase in some other crime which isn't being targeted) before moving their focus elsewhere (with the corresponding increase in this particular crime). Happens again and again.

No, I am in the position of saying that whether or not there is an illiteracy issue in the US or not, you, Karmashock, are full of shit.

Personally, I think the evidence, as far as I have seen *is* ambiguous and scant. I'm not sufficiently interested in this argument to go digging for sources to back up the opposing point of view, since I'm not sure I even hold it - at least to any great extent.

My bone in this debate (as a professional statistician) is simply to point out that the specific data source you quoted is not what you presented it as. Thus it's deeply offensive to me that you misrepresent a statistical estimate and then have the temerity to go:

Assert as you wish. But without actual evidence, your claim is a mere assertion. I don't have to prove the opposite of your assertion to show that.

Careful there.

Those values you quoted are *not* education statistics. They are estimates from a model built on national data, only a very small number of which actually came from Montana. In short, these are *specifically* driven by demographic data, and for especially low population, unusual demographic states like Montana, can potentially give very inaccurate results.

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estima...

Specifically, the estimate for 2003 uses the following set of predictors:

- Percentage of the county population who were foreign-born and who had stayed in the United States for 20 years or less years;
- Percentage of county population age 25 and older with only a high school education or less;
- Percentage of the county population who were Black or Hispanic;
- Percentage of the county population in households with incomes below 150 percent of poverty level;
- Indicator variable identifying the New England and North Central census divisions; and
- Indicator variable identifying the SAAL states.

Seriously yes. Most of the above skills are nice and all, but the likelihood is that not any one person will have all of the above. Which means you need to work with other people. In fact if one guy has a particular skill, you need to be able to educate the rest of the group in it. It's no use building a group where if one guy dies everyone is fucked.

Yeah, if you had cattle, the last thing you would want to do is shoot them, anyway. You have there an animal that converts useless grass into all sorta of diary products. Turning that into a steak will probably fuck you in the long term, and you'd better be thinking in the long term.

In most parts of the civilised world, there's very little to hunt. Whole herds of wild animals are not going to magically appear, and in terms of land area hunting would require far greater an area of decent unpolluted soil than agriculture to feed any given population.

Perhaps they're using Android, which has had a problem connecting to certain routers for years which apparently is an intractable problem, fixable by neither Google, the router or the handset manufacturers. Somebody clearly isn't following the standards. But who?

I think we need to take a serious look at the "many eyes" theory because of this. Apparently, there were no eyes on the part of parties that did not wish to exploit the bug for close to two years. And wasn't there just a professional audit by Red Hat that caught another bug, but not this one?

I have to say I'm even less confident in the plan to couple it to DNSSEC.

Sure. We're better. But we need to be even better than that.

I'd say more than just the "community". We have a great many companies that incorporate this software and generate billions from the sales of applications or services incorporating it, without returning anything to its maintenance.I think it's a sensible thing to ask Intuit, for example: "What did you pay to help maintain OpenSSL?". And then go down the list of companies.

OK guys. We've promoted Open Source for decades. We have to own up to our own problems.

This was a failure in the Open Source process. It is just as likely to happen to closed source software, and more likely to go unrevealed if it does, which is why we aren't already having our heads handed to us.

But we need to look at whether Open Source projects should be providing the world's security without any significant funding to do so.