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Comment Re:What do we do with all the people though? (Score 1) 888

Nobody likes the idea of paying somebody to sit around and do nothing. They want that for themselves.

Which is, perhaps, why these sorts of ideas have to be discussed in the context of fantasy and science fiction, where it is "safe" to discuss radical ideas. I've recently started re-watching Star Trek TNG and am surprised at just how anti-capitalist, anti-death penalty, pro-human rights, pro-socialism it is - but it works, because it is people in the twenty-fourth(?) century on a space ship.

The idea is, to quote First Contact, that "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives, we work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." Their society has got to the point where they don't care about money or ownership of stuff; they have recognised that it is meaningless. Or something like that.

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 1) 377

Under English law, if someone is asleep there is a presumption that they have not consented to the sexual activity, and that the awake party (or parties) are aware of this.

However, it is just a presumption. If a defendant can raise some evidence to say that the other party had consented before (impliedly or explicitly), or they reasonably believed they have, the prosecution must then prove that there wasn't consent, and the defendant didn't believe there was.

So in most cases where someone is asleep and sex starts, it never gets reported to the police (even if it is, actually, rape). Alternatively, if it does come to the attention of the police, the victim might give evidence that they had consented (which might happen in Assange's case). In my limited understanding, these issues only go to the police when it is clearly rape, or there is some other factor. In Assange's case, it was they allegedly went to the police to ask if they could force him to take an STI test, and the police recognised that what was described could amount to rape etc. Which makes me wonder how many other women around the world have been in similar situations with him, but not felt able or willing to go to the police.

Being incapacitated with drugs etc. works similarly; there is a presumption of no consent, but the defence can try to remove it.

So in general, if you are likely to engage in any sort of sexual activity with someone, it is best to get a signed consent form filled out in advance (possibly witnessed) - at least, that's what I picked up from studying sexual offences...

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 2) 377

What those quote are saying is that if the Swedish courts say he can be extradited, the Government can say he can't be.

However, that decision still has to be made legally; i.e. in accordance with the law. So the Government couldn't (I hope) refuse an extradition because it was one of their ministers and they liked him. They would need a reasonable ground (or whatever their legal equivalent is - I don't know much about Swedish extradition procedures, but I do about English ones). While I disagree with this article's conclusions, it has some stuff pointing out how the Government would have specific grounds for refusing an extradition request... but to me it seems perfectly reasonable for them not to give hypothetical guarantees - particularly if those guarantees are enshrined in law anyway (such as not extraditing people for political crimes, or in cases of discrimination and persecution). If they get an extradition request, they can dismiss it immediately if it is manifestly unfounded under one of these grounds (or any other ground) but until they receive a request, they can't know if that's the case.

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 2) 377

If he is in Sweden, having been surrendered, then the UK's permission will be needed to extradite him further. That's in Article 28(4) of the Framework Decision on the European Arrest Warrant:

...a person who has been surrendered pursuant to a European arrest warrant shall not be extradited to a third State without the consent of the competent authority of the Member State which surrendered the person. Such consent shall be given in accordance with the Conventions by which that Member State is bound, as well as with its domestic law.

It doesn't matter if Sweden drops the charges or accusations, they couldn't extradite him to the US without permission from the UK.

On the Agiza and al-Zery issue, to me that is an argument against extraordinary rendition happening from Sweden; it was well over a decade ago, and caused such a huge scandal nationally and internationally, with changes to rules and laws, that it is unlikely to happen again, in an even higher profile situation, with a new government. Iirc there was likely to be a major investigation with legal action against the relevant Swedish officials, but that wasn't likely to go anywhere as the foreign minster at the time was murdered between the renditions and the scandal breaking.

Were Sweden to break the law and extra-judicially surrender Assange to the US, there would be a major international scandal, as they would be almost certainly breaking Swedish, EU and ECHR law, to help the US in what is probably already an unpopular situation. I don't think it would end well for the Swedish government - not least because they'd struggle to ever get an extradition or surrender warrant in similar circumstances ever again.

Comment Re:Extradition from Sweden is easier (Score 1) 377

I think the person who wrote that page may have been a little confused. If you read a bit further down they copy the relevant part of the US-Sweden supplemental treaty:

If the extradition request is granted in the case of a person who is being prosecuted or is serving a sentence in the territory of the requested State for a different offense, the requested State may:

b) temporarily surrender the person sought to the requesting State for the purpose of prosecution. The person so surrendered shall be kept in custody while in the requesting State and shall be returned to the requested State after the conclusion of the proceedings against that person in accordance with conditions to be determined by mutual agreement of the Contracting States.

That's the temporary surrender procedure - but if you note the first 6 words, it only apples after the normal extradition process has been successful; it is for situations where extradition is approved by the suspect is already on trial or in prison in the extraditing state. So it still has to go through the traditional tests and so on.

Anyone asserting that extradition from Sweden to the US would almost certainly happen should be treated with scepticism, as there is little evidence to support this either way - until there is evidence that the US is actually charging Assange with anything. What we can be pretty certain of is that he will get his full due process in Sweden, then the UK, then the ECtHR, before he ends up in the US.

Comment Re:He will (Score 2) 377

The thing is, Sweden have a proven history of being active in extraordinary renditions---sending people to be tortured by the CIA---and the Swedish authorities refused to confirm that he wouldn't be bundled straight off to the US.

And the UK has also been implicated in the extraordinary rendition stuff. And there was a big scandal about it in Sweden (over the 2 people who were subject to it), and a big international investigation, and chances are that some people in Sweden would have got in a lot of trouble had the responsible minister not been assassinated. The European community in general is somewhat ashamed of its involvement in the US's extraordinary rendition operations, and has taken steps to prevent further breaches of law.

The two renditions happened in 2001, over a decade ago, and since then Sweden has significantly changed its rules on renditions (causing something of a diplomatic incident with the US in 2006). The fact that Sweden was proven to have been involved, and came out and put a stop to it arguably makes them safer than other places which haven't put the same sort of restrictions in place.

As for not confirming that they wouldn't bundle him off... iirc what they didn't do was say that they would refuse extradition (which is perfectly fair), rather than saying they wouldn't bundle him off (which would be illegal anyway).

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 1) 377

The problem is that the guy in that video apparently hasn't read the actual treaty. Nor, it seems, have the people who wrote this page on Justice4Assange which has the video embedded and even quotes the relevant passage of the treaty.

VI. If the extradition request is granted in the case of a person who is being prosecuted or is serving a sentence in the territory of the requested State for a different offense, the requested State may:

b) temporarily surrender the person sought to the requesting State for the purpose of prosecution. The person so surrendered shall be kept in custody while in the requesting State and shall be returned to the requested State after the conclusion of the proceedings against that person in accordance with conditions to be determined by mutual agreement of the Contracting States. [emphasis added]

Yes, there is a temporary surrender provision, but it only applies if the extradition has already been approved, i.e. if the Swedish (and English, and European) courts have approved it.

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 1) 377

For the US to extradite him from Sweden they'd also need permission of the UK (under the EU Surrender/Extradition Framework). Which means the case would first have to go through the Swedish courts, then the English courts, maybe the CJEU and probably the ECtHR.

In contrast, extraditing him from the UK would require just the English courts and ECtHR - so would be significantly easier.

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 1) 377

According to the English High Court, the rape allegation comes from him having sex with someone while she was asleep - the non-use of a condom being an aggravating factor.

The not-using-a-condom is a separate offence of sexual molestation, with the other woman. He's also accused of a second count of sexual molestation against her (for rubbing himself against her, against her will) and one of unlawful coercion for using force against her.

And yes, from my understanding of Swedish law, they do have different degrees of "rape", and even if they don't, they will almost certainly have different levels of sentence.

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 5, Informative) 377

It seems that every time Assange comes up I have to paste this, so here goes. From the English High Court judgment, he is accused of 4 offences, as follows:

1. Unlawful coercion

        On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm. Assange, by using violence. forced the injured party to endure his restricting her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party's arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body weight preventing her from moving or shifting.

2. Sexual molestation

        On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge.

3. Sexual molestation

        On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body.

4. Rape

        On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state.

        It is an aggravating circumstance that Assange. who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used. still consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her. The sexual act was designed to violate the injured party's sexual integrity."

So what he is is alleged to have done (whether or not he did so) is definitely rape under both Swedish and English law.

Comment Re:or stop hiding... (Score 2) 377

The UK - US do not have a bilateral agreement to hand over an individual without a court case...

Nor does Sweden. The suggestion that Sweden had such an agreement came from a misreading of their extradition treaty; the same term appears in the UK law and is about extraditing people temporarily after the extradition has been approved.

Comment Re:Not nonsense (Score 1) 364

This isn't a political group. It is a group of law enforcement + technical experts. Their programme says that they are looking into the technical aspects, starting from the assumption that it isn't technically feasible, and seeing if they can think of a way of doing it.

Once they've done that, they'll report back to the politicians (well, the civil servants first) to say whether or not it can be done proportionately, and then it becomes a political issue if their answer is that it can be done, and those in charge still want to look into it.

Comment Re:Not nonsense (Score 1) 364

I don't think the group is in a position to actually come up with any actual technology; just theories. They're starting from a point of "there is no way of doing this," not "there is nothing on the market that we could use", so they are being asked to come up with concepts, and asses their feasibility. I think, based on that, the other stuff I've read about ENLETS and the BBC's version of the story.

Even if the 8 of them did somehow invent a major piece of technology and be able to build it, that wouldn't be that different from any random inventors coming up with it, aside from the fact that they are being funded partly by the EU budget. And I don't see a problem with people seeing if this is possible, or could work. The decision as to whether it should be used or mandated is for the elected politicians and so on, not the technical experts.

Comment Mostly nonsense (Score 4, Informative) 364

This story is mostly nonsense.

There's a thing called ENLETS (or European Network of Law Enforcement Technology Services), which is meant to be "the leading European platform that strengthens police cooperation and bridges the gap between the users and providers of law enforcement technology." From what I can tell it is a sort of advisory committee of law enforcement technology experts, working through Europol, who brainstorm how to use technology to help law enforcement stuff. Currently it gets about €600k in funding, mostly from the EU, some from the UK and the Netherlands. They're asking for that to be increased to €915k. Most of that seems to be in hiring some new full-time advisers; from their personnel costs, they want about 8 people working full time; a leader, a policy officer, and admin person and 5 senior advisers. So if they don't get their budget increase, there's a good chance none of this stuff will happen.

This article is based on a "secret" document (which I think is this one), which is a (draft?) work programme for the group for 2014-2020; so what they're supposed to be looking at.

This document stems from a recommendation by the Council of the European Union that ENLETS look into this kind of thing - the instructions etc. can be found here (or if that doesn't work, search for document 12103/13 on their search page). They asked ENLETS to monitor and coordinate the development of new technologies.

The actual "secret" document is listed on the Council's website (do a search for 17365/13) as "Law Enforcement Technology Services (ENLETS) 2014 - 2020 - Work programme", but the document itself isn't accessible. I don't know whether that's because it's such a minor report (and not really an official EU thing) that they haven't bothered uploading it, or if they are claiming it should be withheld; I'm tempted to make a formal request for it to see what they say.

The five short-term goals they have been asked to look at are in some places a bit scary:

  1. Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) - ANPR is well established in many MS. In 2013/14 ENLETS will support those MS who feel the need to enhance their capabilities by sharing best practices. The ANPR systems will be measured by its maturity, capabilities and their deployment.
  2. Open Source Intelligence - Open source intelligence is a prioritized topic due to the evolving internet and wireless communication systems. For law enforcement it is a source of information as well as a method of communication. Open source intelligence relates to frontline policing (events, crowd control) and criminal investigations (search for evidence, monitoring and surveillance). In this project the handling of open sources will be assessed and ranked.
  3. Signal Intelligence - Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) deploy many kinds of sensors, mostly connected to their IT systems. The sensors need to enhance the operational capability of the LEAs, but often the integration of these sensors and IT systems cause technological problems. Frequently sensor data cannot be integrated, stored or displayed due to the design, protocols and construction of IT systems. What kind of signal intelligence is the most operationally effective and open for integrating the sensors in the EU? What kind of concept will be needed as ever more data is forwarded for processing and more information needs to be analysed?
  4. Surveillance - Surveillance uses many types of technology. In this topic focus will be on sharing the best video systems (quality, performance in several scenarios). The purpose of this topic is to match the best standards in video used by the industry to the end user requirements. Privacy enhanced technology and transparency are key issues.
  5. Remote Stopping Vehicles - Cars on the run have proven to be dangerous for citizens. Criminal offenders (from robbery to a simple theft) will take risks to escape after a crime. In most cases the police are unable to chase the criminal due to the lack of efficient means to stop the vehicle safely. This project starts with the knowledge that insufficient technology tools are available to be used as part of a proportionate response. This project will work on a technological solution that can be a “build in standard” for all cars that enter the European market.

To me, 2 looks a bit worrying, but the rest seem to be about finding the most efficient way of doing what is already done, and getting different EU organisations using similar standards. The 5th, which is the one that has caused all this fuss, seems the most theoretical; noting that there is no way of doing this sensibly, so seeing if they can think of a way. Actually coming up with something, and convincing the politicians and parliamentarians to implement it will take quite a while.

So, "EU Secretly Plans to put a back door in every car by 2020" is pretty much nonsense; an advisory committee of a thing that sometimes works for the EU has been asked by a bit of the EU to look into technological solutions for law enforcement issues, and as one of their agenda items, had decided to see if there is a way to achieve this in a proportionate and practical way.

I have a feeling that it is "secret" in the sense that the Telegraph has only just found out about it, and has decided it is a great way of generating outrage at the EU. Like their nonsense story about EU plans to put GPS speed limiters in all cars, or the Daily Mails story about the EU planning a "soviet-style brainwashing" education campaign for children.

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