Or the left wing scream. When the patriot act extension was passed, Harry Reid was busy with comments like "When the clock strikes midnight tomorrow, we would be giving terrorists the opportunity to plot attacks against our country, undetected," speaking about those evil tea party republicans holding the law up trying to amend it while tea party candidates like Rand Paul was asking whether the nation "should have some rules that say before they come into your house, before they go into your banking records, that a judge should be asked for permission, that there should be judicial review? Do we want a lawless land?"

Of course Obama has taken Bush's programs to new heights while arguing legal interpretations of wording to justify the bulk collection of data. One outraged republican said "the suggestion that the administration can violate the law because Congress failed to object is outrageous."

Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Especially when it is pretty easy to find examples that cause them to fail. Plenty of republicans as well as democrats appose this crap. The tea party members actually attempted to limit it at one time but were ignored and scoffed at out of spite. Obama is not running for office any more. If he actually thought the programs some of which were created under his watch, some were expanded from the previous administration, were wrong, then he would not defend them and simply not care about what the republicans or democrats thought and end them as the chief executive officer of the land.

And with the senate controlled by democrats, none of those bills have ever been passed and became law.

Oh wait, reality just called and wanted to know if you would be home in time for dinner.

lol.. and the chief executive officer in the US has absolutely no power to change or stop the programs that the former administration set in place basically by using the executive powers of the office? These programs were in the lime light when Obama was running for office the first time and he campaigned against them.

The minute Obama failed to act on the programs, they became his. The minute he took office and did nothing, he took responsibility for them. This is his second term and even if you claim he couldn't do anything about it, he wasted his first term not trying and even signed the patriot act extension from France using an auto-pen technology to stop it from sun-setting.

I'm really getting sick and tire of everyone blaming Obama's failures on Bush. Stop scape goating him and hold his feet to the fire if you expect any change. Holding on to your political ideology just isn't worth it. Especial when you can claim he was just a liar and not what he lead you to believe and escape with your political ideology in tact.

woosh...

Do they need more then one hand for that?

lol.. Universities have existed long before the 1900's. Why do you think the church had pull over Galileo? It was because he worked at one when he came up with his concept on a heliocentric universe (expanded from copernicus'). When it was first circulated, the only restrictions they placed on him/it was to disclaim it hadn't been proven and not to teach it until it had been. He later went on to insult the pope and church clergy which got him house arrest until he died.

Of course that is over simplistic but it captures the events accurately. The church had never attempted to squash information, it demanded evidence of the validity of it. This evidence would soon be found but squashed only to spite someone who attacked specific members of the church- not to hamper the flow of information.

The poor could attend universities by getting jobs with the church. It wasn't uncommon. But as you said, they didn't start getting wide access to education until the 1900s but that was more of a application of resources then the church doing anything with the flow of information. I'm certainly not aware of any church stances saying universities or even public education was not christian like or anything. Please enlighten me if you are.

It means his control c got stuck and pasted twice.

I imagine this happened because the keys got sticky from a couple one handed sessions in the middle of the night which might also explain the lack of attention on the actual post and the lapse in editing.

I've heard stories about people putting their keyboards in the dishwasher to clean them but I'm not sure I would ever want to eat at the editors house after that unless it was a BBQ and we used paper plates.

Yes, they did. Like your reply, where they attack the people who didn't want Eich as CEO because of his support for legally denying rights to gays, by trying to make them out to be bigots.

Ok, first, lets stop inflating everything to some emotional epoxy that wouldn't hold itself together. No one was trying to deny gays any rights. Gays always had the same rights as ever other human- the right to marry someone of the opposite sex and of legal age and sound mind. No one ever attempted to take that right away from anyone because they were gay. And no, love is not in the law so it doesn't matter who loves who which is another emotion that millions of people fail to understand or define. When Gays attempted to get marriage rights, they were looking for a right in excess of that which everyone else had. If someone was against that, they weren't denying anyone any rights, they were stopping the creation of additional rights.

I understand why you post anonymously. You are afraid that your comment will someday become associated to some online identity that might follow you and you might face political repercussions for your stance now that you want to back doing so on others. But it is you who fail, your hyperbole and exaggeration is only making you look silly when examined logically.

So you think there was a witch hunt now? There was no witch hunt. Eich got a position. A very prominent one that exposed his past actions to further scrutiny. There was no threat of harm, no threat of punishment.

Just a refusal to do business with Mozilla. An action you support, when it is advancing your own agenda.

Yet you oppose it in others.

What I saw was a vile witch hunt meant to target a man's financial life for something that over 80% of the country at the time, including a sitting president and several former presidents agreed with. No one to this day, and I have been asking for the evidence, has ever been able to show that his loose political affiliations or this one donation has ever crossed from his personal life and into any professional actions he has taken or was responsible for.

Yes, a company does not have the right to exist. A person however does and whenever a company persecutes a person for their free speech, that company needs to go away. This is not hypocritical unless you somehow think a company has a right to exist and impose it's religious, political, and any other belief of the day onto the private actions of employees.

No, he donated to a cause attempting to deny legal rights to same sex marriage through a campaign of fear and deception. This was a very public attempt, and not in any way, was it private conduct.

Which is why the donations are a public record.

And what Eich did was participate in the political system where he funded those who said, if you want to get married, it better be with how we agree or you will not be allowed to marry here, or anywhere we have influence over.

And you are supporting it. Not just defending Eich, but explicitly supporting it.

So you are endorsing use of the legal system to compel others in their actual private conduct.

lol.. supporting it? I support the right of anyone to address their government and make their cases heard. I support the right of anyone to go to the people and make their positions heard. I support the rights of anything that deals with free speech and I am against anyone trying to punish people for doing so.

Now, there you go with exaggerations again- his donation was to a group that said 200+ years of history and centuries of precedent mean something- marriage is between a man and a woman only. all gays had the right to marry just like anyone else, they just had to marry someone of the opposite sex just like everyone else. And the law was not that these donations were public record at the time it was made, that law was created after prop 8 passed and retroactively applied- presumably just so the gay community would have the chance to retaliate on specific people.

But imagine if what happened at Mozilla was the general practice all across this country at the time this was going on. How many people would risk their jobs donating to pro gay campaigns, how many people would lose their jobs for standing up and saying "I think this is right" or even risk it in the first place. You would be nowhere but back in the closet right now because most people did not until recently accept the homosexual lifestyle and that acceptance we see now came specifically from people being able to stand up and say this is not right or that is wrong.

And it was participation in the political process, the freedom of speech, that made it possible for anti-gays to oppose civil rights, and use the legal system to deny acceptance. For centuries.

Besides, you're the one sucking up to centuries of traditional behavior, as if that excuses the abuse and discrimination involved.

Sorry dude, but being practiced for a long time does not make something more right. It just means more time for wrongs to have occurred.

Being practiced for a long time most definitely does make a position someone holds rational. You would have to be an idiot to think otherwise. But with time, people change and you have no evidence whatsoever that this person attempted to discriminate against anyone in their professional life- just that he held to something that was the norm since before he was born. The problem here is that retaliation in his professional life was over something in his personal life. If he had advocated firing all gays or not giving them raises or something of the sorts, I could agree. But what we have is a past action that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever at all on his professional life being brought in as retribution and causing his dismissal in his professional life. It is disgusting and if it happened when gays were trying to get extra rights, they would have failed because they would all be unemployed as until recently, most Americans did not accept them.

That is the norm already in many places. Have you done a thing about that? But tell us where the retaliation is here. Has Eich been personally threatened or endangered? Has he been denied his rights? Being employed by Mozilla isn't a right you know.

Bullshit. His employment, his professional life has been threatened and caused him to lose employment over political speech from years ago. You are here trying to defend that retaliation so don't act as if it didn't happen.

Which is why he's not in court facing a legal complaint for employee discrimination. So what? You've already stated your opposition to going to court anyway.

BTW, you do know that firing somebody because they're homosexual is still entirely legal in most states. Right? Are you working to change that?

lol.. So I get it now. If it could happen and it might be bad, then it is acceptable when you do it because others do it too? When is this going to turn into a I killed him because some dude killed a queer 3 years ago. We already saw how that played out with the black community and it didn't bode well for them. Because other people do it is not a justification I can accept. If you point specifically to where it happened in other times, I will gladly say you shouldn't be associated with them either.

But as it is now, anyone who cares at all about free speech should be avoiding Mozilla like the plague. Their recent actions of retaliating on someone for political speech outside of work is disgusting to freedom.

Hence you're showing you don't value free speech, because you're denying it to them for opposing Eich's actions which were deliberately supporting an attempt to legally deny rights to a class of people for reasons that courts have already found suspect. But no, Proposition 8 was a very public affair, not a private one.

OMG.. A private donation with private funds to a political campaign is a private affair. If it was public, he would be using public moneys, if it was professional, he would be using the company's money. Just because something is in the public doesn't change the category of ones actions.

Many people who values equality and tolerance questioned whether someone who supported Proposition 8 was appropriate as a choice for CEO.

Then the focus should have been on his works within the company not the fact that he supported prop8. But because you could find absolutely nothing incriminating or even impugning his good name within his works with the company, you were left retaliating for the actual cause- political speech made in the past.

But all you care about is denying them the right to say their piece, and to make their wishes known.

Those people involved can say anything they want. It is when the company acts because of someone's political speech is where the problem is.

Why? Why do you hate their free speech?

Yes, again I can see why you are posting AC. This has to be one of the most stupid comments you can make given the context of what has transpired. Perhaps you should stop, take a deep breath, and relax a little before you continue. Perhaps wipe a bit of that spital from your chin before you go off again saying stupid things.

You must be confused. You are now using the same language I was using "support".

The big bang has never been verified, there has never been with "the use of empirical data, observation, test, or experiment to confirm the truth" There has been well supported observations and evidence as you mentioned in your first statement but nothing has ever verified the truth of the big bang.

Thanks for playing though, please stop moving the goal posts then returning once the subject matter moved on.

And you think the internet is any different? ..lol

Yes. Tbe church has always done that which id ehy they created universities and high education.

Well, created is a stretch but they started quite a few of them and are directly connected to most of thr more prominent ones.

And of course that answer would be yes.

And of course that answer doesn't change anything because he can will himself able to lift it any time in the future if he decides to.

Unless someone is editing wikipedia, you are lieing.

It evrn starts out using support over verify. I suppose you are going to also claim that the big bang if fact and can never change too.

According to the article, i think you should take your psudoscience and go home if you hold those beliefs.

You are correct, ehen the bigoted mob at mozilla got its way, they come up with flimsy excused. This entire article is one of them. Its entire premise is an argument to justify the action because it might be maybe possible that a source of funding that was never in conflict the entire time Eich wotked at mozillia or the four previous years they knew of the conttibutions could possibly dry up because of his job before the political which hunt forced him out.

  And your attemp to claim i am doing the same thing when i say no one should be using or associating with mozilla if they value free speech. You couldn't be more clueless. First, all Eich did was donate privately to a cause that attempted to preserve the law and tradition that has been part of the US for more than 200 years snd the norm in every civilized society fore centuries longer which the majority of the country supported. What mozilla did was say if you ever participate in the political system, it better be with how we agree or you will not be employed here or anywhere they have influence over.

It was participation in the political process, the freedom of speech, that made it possible for gays to appose centuries of tradition and gain acceptance not only among their peers but legally in the majority of the states in the US. But now it seems that it is fair game to retaliate on people youpolitically disagree with. Imagine if that was the norm when people were donating to pro gay rigjts efforts across the countty.

That is nothing of the same thing. No one has ever shown that anything Eich did under his employ harmed gays. All his political views were private and separate from his employment. However, railroading him was very public and very much the actions of a company whos employees used the very same free speech process to change more than 200 years of precedent in the US. It is completely disgusting and no one who values free speech should have anything to do with mozilla!

You cannot believe that with a straight face. Go troll somewhere else where people are idiots or something and you might get somewhere.

I guess you never heard of radio free Europe.

This has happened since the start of the cold war. The US has done this with Cuba in some form or another since castro confiscated private industry and expelled the foreign owners and workers.

And yes, closing down twitter in a country is about the same as jamming a radio signal with the added benifit of hampering opposition communications.