...the only quotable I've ever liked or ever will like:

Words learned by rote a parrot may rehearse; but talking is not always to converse, not more distinct from harmony divine, the constant creaking of a country sign.

I don't have to be correct. I just don't want you to be mistaken.

Hmm, have you still not read the OP and other comments in this thread? You are correct, and I'm not mistaken. Have you ever heard the expression, "Preaching to the choir..."?

You will note that I used the singular form of the word "insult". This form and usage of the word does not mean what you think it does. If you really need the English lesson to clarify your understanding, I will happily provide it. Let me know...

No problem... I had a pretty good idea that you were coming from there, but I felt the need to defend my honor all the same.

I think years of reading and commenting on Slashdot has made my comments a little more confrontational than I intend sometimes.

Me too. I try to keep a handle on it, but when the urge becomes unbearable, I'm ashamed to admit that I'll check the post anonymously box.

Great reference, wrong thread. The problem you've highlighted is exactly what this "$100,000,000" thread is about. I recommend reading the OP before commenting:

What does that amount to? A month? A week's worth of revenue? Show some teeth dammit! Revoke their charter...

You're right, but you shouldn't be.

Interesting commentary. Yea, I've always felt this way... Couldn't you have skipped the wall of text laced with insult and just posted the quote above....or at least just skip the lacing? You're not an AC. Show some tact.

Yea, that's pretty close to "plain evil." It's unfortunate for your argument that it's a terrible analogy. You should use a crime like profiting from market manipulation as a media mouthpiece for stock market commentary. Something like that... AT&T knew they were misrepresenting their product with doublespeak. The chorus of keyboard commandos in the ol' tubes calling them out for it made 100% sure of that. They just knew they could get away with it, and you know what... They did. 100,000,000 is nothing.

First, everything you said is completely irrelevant to anything I said. Maybe you misread a bit of condescension into my post and thought I was expressing a one-sided opinion? In truth, I was merely pointing out the obvious.

Second, we all know the superpowers of the world have been doing this kind of garbage since the beginning of time. The simple existence of a terrible precedent does not make it OK to repeat it.

Third, your bottom line and its apparent definition of "west-backed" is a little flimsy. You're treading dangerously close to relegating your opinion to the scrap heap with all of the other harebrained conspiracy theories you can read about over at infowars. Other than that, you seem to have some interesting insights.

Side note: I noticed another reply accusing you of being a paid Russian shill, but that kind of criticism is just no fun....sooo... I've enjoyed watching and rooting for "The Americans" on FX, and I've got this amusing image of you as an aging/irrelevant former sleeper who still believes and trolls the internet picking fights for Mother Russia. Please don't kill me.

AT&T assumed that their advertising was fine until told otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

It doesn't matter how long they evaded law enforcement with double-speak. They were violating the law and should be held accountable for the full magnitude of the crime they've committed. That's how justice works in this country.

Why should they lose convenience from and waste time/money on OPSEC/COMSEC when there are no broadly imposed consequences as long as they simply lie about it?

Well, in that case, perhaps you should have read the whole conversation, since I had already responded to the arguments you made.

You're insufferable in your willingness to mis-characterize my commentary. Once again, I wasn't making arguments. I was helping another poster with a misunderstanding by sharing a few scientific facts with him. You don't own the entire discussion thread just because you made an elderly post, so in that case you should mind your own business or at least pay closer attention to the contextual basis of mine.

I also think the distinction between "consumer-level products" and other products is invalid.

This is very true, but it's a straw man. I didn't draw that distinction. My post included a qualifier constraining my commentary to products whose existence amount to "basic littering" because they are intended for our wastewater systems. I can't believe you wasted 3 paragraphs of text explaining something so painfully obvious. The only thing missing is a citation about how pornography drives advanced technology development and adoption.

For example, water treatment plants could be changed to be more efficient.

Ahh, finally, something relevant... Is it realistic, though? Getting there is probably gonna require federal regulations and a lot of government spending. We'll see a lot of litter before we get anywhere close to that ideal. Maybe a tax on these companies to raise funding for these efficiency upgrades, eh? No, that's more ridiculous than a ban. Tough one, I guess... I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Why are you beating around the bush? Why are you not stating clearly what your definition actually is?

I joined this conversation specifically to address the broad accusation that folks participating in this conversation "can't articulate a single problem with them." I'm really not interested in the semantic distinction or argument for/against banning that you're focused on, but since you've asked; I think the way you're calling it a theoretical possibility is overtly dismissive and stifles rational discourse. You asked the same question twice, so I'll ask you to re-read everything up to this point. Fair's fair.

California votes to ban microbeads. I ask for evidence of harm. People get abusive and hostile.

Don't take it out on me. I'm not fear-mongering, and I'm not being evasive. I just didn't join this conversation with the intention of addressing your argument. I'll wait here while you go back to take another look at my original post in this thread.

Since you've asked, even though I don't really give a shit that they've enacted a ban, it's fair to say the ban is definitely not supported by the environmental science we've discussed.

All of that environmental science aside, it seems to me that selling plastics intended to enter our wastewater systems and likely unable to be captured by many such systems amounts to basic littering. I can't think of a good reason to allow that in consumer-level products other than to avoid inflicting economic harm on the industries that sell those products. Maybe you can help me out there...

I guess the take-home lesson from all the non-responses is that there is next to no evidence of actual harm

What we've got is evidence of a mechanism that can cause harm by concentrating compounds into our food chain that shouldn't be there. That is to say, we know compounds bind to the surface of these plastics. We know animals are consuming the plastics. We know these harmful compounds are absorbed into the animal when the plastics are consumed. If that's what you call, "next to no evidence of actual harm", then I a guess we agree.

...and no plausible way in which the ban will significantly improve the marine environment

First, you shouldn't mistake my simple recognition of the facts as tacit support for the ban. I'm happy to acknowledge more research is needed before taking a drastic step like banning the microbeads, but I don't think this perspective should impede a rational discussion about the potential impact of these beads on our enviornment and food supply.

Second, it's most definitely plausible that banning the beads could ultimately result in less of the compounds we've been discussing entering our food chain. Maybe that doesn't fit your definition of significantly improving the marine environment? Fine, I'll also agree with you on this one.

Finally, I don't agree that 'significant improvement of the marine environment' should be the singular criteria for enacting bans on pollutants.

First, they "concentrate" toxins by passing them up the food chain into continually larger organisms after the toxins were ingested by smaller ones. By the time the toxins have moved a ways up the food chain, they've been concentrated into the larger organisms. Second, it's not FUD because "the majority of animal life on this planet" resides in the ocean, by far. Also, higher concentrations of toxins inflict demonstrable harm.

Congratulations. You've misinterpreted the "the only complaint" that you saw. It's more than just man-made "pollution". It's more accurate to say they concentrate other toxins.

First of all, a number of natural toxins exist and are produced every day by organisms (e.g. cyanide) and natural phenomena like volcanic activity. Just like man-made pollutants, those natural toxins are being passed up the food chain via microbeads when they should be resting harmlessly outside the reach of our food chain.

Second, pollution exists and cannot be "undone". It's ludicrous to bring up the fantasy of "if there was no other pollution" because we've been making very large and very permanent deposits ever since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Currently, the only real solution to this problem is time and patience, and microbeads interfere with our ability to bide that time without inflicting harm upon the majority of animal life on this planet.