It has to be good.

You need to look up the "USA Patriot Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005". At the time it was signed into law by a Republican controlled congress, both house and senate.

In both cases, the original 2001 bill and the 2005 re-up, Bush signed the law. While I wouldn't doubt that W had no idea what he was signing, Ron Paul (Rand's father) brought forth plenty of evidence that much of the original language was written long before 911 and proffered by the VPs office to the Senate as a starting pont.

But if you really want to think that Bush and Chaney bare no responsibility, while nearly every elected official since does, if that is what helps you sleep at night, well... God bless ya.

Because anarchy is the only way to utopia, right? Who needs police or roads or defense. Man is a peaceful creature, and humans by nature will go out to fend for themselves without conflict or cooporation with others.

If there is one thing that anarchists, communists, and facists all seem to agree on is that the current system (unless it is their own) isn't worth the effort of saving. The ideal of that type of "revolutionary" bluster in the US is rubbish. Statements like yours are not about the arrogance of these politicians helping those whom one may like or dislike, they are about you not getting your way.

Do you really think the anarchy you propose will seriously ever happen in the US? You are a fool if you do, and if you're not a fool, then you are just hypocritcally espousing an oft-echoed rhetorical position meant to get someone in power that may help people you do like. I.e, you're a tool.

I find it interesting that the elected officials that have offered the biggest opposition to the patriot act - Bernie Sander and Rand Paul - are often sold to us as "radicals", far left and far right. When I hear these guys speak, and read their platforms, they aren't that different. Radical in the US is center in most other countries. I feel I agree with about 90% of what each has to say - both seem reasonable and rational!

And so what makes them radical? That they willing to take a stand and go on the record for what they believe?

As time goes on, the whole thing seems more like a show, with the few politicians that seem to have some backbone to buck the extremely fucked up system getting labeled as radicals. The fact that Americans continue to elect the rest of those bozos is a reasonable cause for this cynicism. But I have to wonder if this is assigned a cause to the resulting effect, or is more going on?

Oh, I've acknowledge who's to blame:

Do I want to acknowledge this? No. That last thing I want to acknowledge is our democracy being that fucked up. But I know that blaming one or a few guys who claim they are on different political teams instead of acknowledging the REAL problem causes far more harm than good.

This argument is exactly the argument they want. because this argument leads nowhere.

The patriot act was promulgated by Cheney Rumsfeld Bush and Co. under a republican controlled congress. And it was backed by Obama under a democratically controlled congress, and - if not for the exception of one guy with a backbone - almost got pushed through a Republican controlled congress by a Democrat president again. So you are both right. What are your points?

The one thing that you two probably agree with, the one thing that polls have shown like 80% if Americans agreeing with, is that the Patriot Act is nonsense and needs to be repealed. Yet, over 99% of the elected representatives seems to want the Patriot Act passed.

Meanwhile, armchair yahoos such as yourselves are busy arguing about which politician is to blame? Balderdash! How about blaming all elected officials, except for maybe Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders? If you can only think of this through the lens of political parties, how about going with the vertebrate and invertebrate parties? I know, without their own news channels, it is hard to imagine....

You are kind of missing the point.

Its not like the Greek economy wouldn't have just continued business as usual without the Euro... If Greece never joined the Eurozone, it would still have the screwed up economy it has today, we just wouldn't be hearing about this being some "crisis".

The only reason this is a "crisis" is because Germany - a major economic power - is involved as a major creditor. And the only reason why this is a "crisis" for Germany is because the German political establishment promised its people that Germany would never bail out a country on the Euro. But that was BS. The UK knew it was BS - crap like this is why they are still GPB and not Euro - and they warned Germany.

Before talk of the Eurozone, the financial markets traded the drachma as if it were the artificially inflated currency it was, then when Germany started talk of adding Greece, the drachma spiked, Greece then had money to buy goods from German companies, and some select currency traders cleaned up. But it was a short term con job. When the credit card ran up, it came time to pay the bills. And Greece has never been that good at paying bills. If it looks like a duck....

Germany didn't have to let Greece in. Greece couldn't even make the minimum requirements for the Eurozone, they were given a bunch of economic exception to join. Allowing Greece in was a real bad financial decision by the German politicians and banking industry that backed Greece's inclusion. Now they are whining about losing money on a risky proposition.

Time for Germany to quit whining, suck up the losses and move on. Its not like the German economy will collapse over this, just some Germans get a haircut. Take it as lesson learned.

The IMF is nothing more than the worlds collection agency. Like any efficient collection agency, it starts with ruining credit and ends with breaking kneecaps.

If Canadians had a sense of humor, that second season of JPod would have happened....

Yes, I know. And nobody in Canada ever liked hockey. And curling is just some sport made up for people to think Canadians have figured out how to bowl on ice. But Canada doesn't have ice either. These myths aboot Canada have all been made up to make the rest of the world think that Canadians are something other than humorless automatons. Indeed, Canadians have no sense of humor.

Lie or not, German banks knew full well what they were getting into. The reason Greece was put on the Euro in the first place is that nobody outside of Greece wanted to exchange Drachmas, because everyone knew full well the Greek economy was shit and its government routinely cooked the books. But this lack of usable currency outside of Greece was hurting German industry - Greece couldn't purchase goods from Germany. Putting Greece on the Euro helped open a market to Germany.

The flip side was that monetary policy in Greece was then being made as if it were Germany, which means lots of cheap money. It was like giving a three year old a credit card with a large spending limit and then pointing the child toward a candy store.

The real fibbing came when the German government told its people they wouldn't have to bail out Greece. They will. Greece has never been solvent enough to comply meaningfully with its debt. Sooner or later the Germans will realize this, and realize that all they have from Greece is a bill of goods.

By "giving" you must mean getting Greece on the same currency and then instituting a monetary policy that benefits German industry.

I'm not German or Greece either, but its hard to ignore Germany's responsibility here. It was incredibly irresponsible for Germany to allow Greece to be on the Euro. Greece wasn't solvent before they joined the Eurozone, but letting them in benefited Germany a great deal in the short term. This obviously wasn't going to end well, and the German government at best showed uncharacteristic wishful thinking when it told its people they wouldn't have to bail out Greece if Greece joined. Given Germany's cultural propensity for competency in areas of math and finance, it seems the population willing turned a blind eye towards the obvious while seeing the short term financial benefits come its way.

The German political establishment should have to pay the piper here. But they are doing this on the backs of the Greek citizens, who by and large, had no idea this even was going down until it was too late. Not that Greece shouldn't have to pay, but maybe the Germans should factor in a bit of austerity on their part. Maybe cut back to 4 weeks vacation per year or something.

The US gave Greece $376 Million dollars to rebuild between 1949 and 1951. This was not a loan. The US just gave Greece the money. Given that the exchange rate back then was around 4 DEM per dollar, that is over 1bn DEM that Greece got.

The point that Germany surrendered to the US to the allies is a salient one. At least one of these allies paid back Greece two fold for its trouble. And Germany doesn't have that money it stole. That was either conscripted by the allies or sent offshore by Nazi's in hiding. It is why most claims to money and treasures stolen by Germany it WWII gets made to places like Switzerland and Austria.

This argument going back to Nazi German doesn't serve Greece. The rest of the world got over WWII years ago, and nobody is holding the current German state accountable for the Nazis. It is generally accepted that one of the last place one looks for the people responsible for WWII is Germany. Those Nazi folks either got killed, when into hiding, or got good jobs with the Americans or Russians.

What Greece should be arguing is that it was irresponsible for Germany to allow Greece in the Eurozone to begin with. Greece's addition had to do with Germany's greed. At the time, it just make it easier for Germany to export, while giving a very poor Greece a credit card it obviously couldn't handle. It is kind of the same story of all those mortgage banks lending to people with bad credit in the US. And all while, Germany was telling its citizens that they would never have to bail out Greece. What a crock.

This is an outrage! Tim Hortons must sell hot dogs! Where else would we expect red blooded Canadians to eat after a curling match?

I'm always shocked at just how much Canada doesn't get Canadian culture.

The Chuch Norris defense, eh?

And I think the Canadian spelling is "aboot", not "about".