yes, I do agree on that last point. I still see similarities of the IPO with madoff and ponzi's deal though since you as the original seller know there is no value to the company, really because the business model is dead in the water (For lots of reasons.) So the only way it is any good to anyone on the stock market is if the price is above zero, and for each guy selling it, it gets a little closer to zero every day, without possibility of going up because the model doesn't support a higher price nor dividends. There is nothing on the horizon for them that can pump up the price short of people (new suckers) thinking they'll get to flip it to someone else. This is very much like a ponzi scheme. perhaps the fault doesn't lie entirely in the company, but also with everyone else who made an IPO on a sham operation possible.