Comment Jane/Lonny Eachus goes Sky Dragon Slayer (Score 1) 708
Correction: However, if the passive plate doesn't fully enclose the heated plate then the heated and passive plate temperatures...
... power in = power out.
... Using irradiance (power/m**2) simplifies the equation: electricity + sigmaT(c)**4 = sigmaT(h)**4 This is a joke, right? Trying to see if I'd catch it? Again, among other things you are substituting irradiance for power without factoring in any area.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-29]
Again, start with power in = power out through a boundary with surface area "A". Using irradiance (power/m^2) simplifies the equation because we can divide both sides by "A" to obtain irradiance in = irradiance out.
... I mentioned this to you several times, but you haven't picked up on it: just for one thing, you're claiming to be using flux but flux has an areal component which you are not accounting for. You say power in = power out, which may be true, but that total power is being transferred via emissive power, which is in W/m^2. Nowhere are you accounting for this. As I stated before: you are conflating power and emissive power, and you can't do that. Where are your areas? It might conserve energy but without areas you do not have the information required to calculate actual radiative temperature.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-29]
Again, as long as the enclosing shell is nearly the same size as the heated plate, those areas are nearly irrelevant. And because it's a simpler problem (like a tricycle) one should master it before trying to ride a bicycle with complicated view factors. I already specified my areas. Again, neglecting area ratios predicts that the heated plate warms from 150F to 235F after it's enclosed. Accounting for area ratios similar to Earth's predicts that the heated plate warms from 150F to 233.8F.
So the tricycle isn't too inaccurate compared to the bicycle, it's much easier to learn, and it provides a sanity check on the more complicated calculation. As the area ratio approaches "1.0" the bicycle should give the same answer as the simpler tricycle. And it does.
Incidentally, that tricycle is much more accurate than Jane's prediction that the heated plate remains at 150F even after it's enclosed.
... I repeat: get the experiment with the two separate plates (actively heated plate and passive plate) right first. Then you can move on to a fully-enclosing plate. You say it's simpler but in a way it's not; you're trying to ride a bicycle when you haven't even managed to ride your tricycle without falling off.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-29]
No. A spherical heated plate with a fully-enclosing shell has spherical symmetry, so the heated and enclosing plate temperatures are constant across their surfaces. That's why the equilibrium temperature solutions are just simple numbers.
However, if the passive plate doesn't fully enclose the heated plate then the heated and enclosing plate temperatures would be complicated functions of spherical coordinates theta and phi. That's a unicycle, not a tricycle.
... There are numerous sources, including physics and engineering textbooks, which contradict your analysis and conclusions. Why don't you try the engineering textbooks Latour cited, which have examples of real-world situations? After all: ultimately what we're talking about here is the real world, not a thought experiment. [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-29]
I already showed you that MIT's equation reduces to my Eq. 1 for blackbodies, and is consistent with these equations and Eq. 1 in Goodman 1957. I've stressed that this thought experiment has been tested for decades in the real world. Radiation shields allow for more accurate measurements of gas temperatures using thermocouples:
"The greatest problem with measuring gas temperatures is combatting radiation loss.
These radiation shields have been used since at least Daniels 1968 (PDF), and they work like Dr. Spencer's insulating plate. They slow radiative heat loss from the hotter thermocouple without violating the first law, the second law, or the Stefan-Boltzmann law. Just like the greenhouse effect.
... Create a realistic scenario, draw yourself a diagram, and run some actual numbers on them rather than just tossing equations around without seeing how they fit together in the real world.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-29]
How ironic. I've explained how to derive equations for increasingly realistic scenarios, ran "actual numbers" and repeatedly told you that you'd only be able to understand this thought experiment if you did the same. But you still haven't. Haven't you noticed that I'm the only one here deriving equations and doing calculations, while you're too busy saying things like this?
"... non-person... disingenuous and intended to mislead
"Jesus, you're a dumbshit.
"... what a despicable human being you are
a cloud-based tool that will let researchers comb through massive troves of data, looking for insights and connections
Sort of reminiscent of BACON, isn't it? (With more intelligence, I presume.)
A plate near the heat source is NOT even remotely the same as closing the drain on a bathtub, because the total power out of the system (it's a closed system with heat being removed, remember?) remains constant, as you have so conveniently observed. [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-28]
Completely backwards, as usual. I've never observed any such ridiculous nonsense. That's actually Jane's ridiculous "observation" which I've already tried to correct:
"... Hopefully it's also clear that Jane's also wrong to claim that the power used by the cooler is required to be constant. The chamber wall temperature is held constant, so the power used by the cooler temporarily decreases after the enclosing plate is added, until it reaches equilibrium."
I've repeatedly said the electrical heating power is constant, and that adding an enclosing plate temporarily reduces power out until the heated plate warms to a higher equilibrium temperature.
... Since the temperature of every other object is less than that of the heat source, there is no net heat flow TO the heat source, therefore the heat source does not become hotter. This is, and has been, the whole of Latour's argument, and it is valid. It is not crazy speculation by some nitwit... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-02]
Again, Eq. 1 describes equilibrium temperature:
electricity + sigma*T_c^4 = sigma*T_h^4 (Eq. 1)
Eq. 1 shows that Jane and "the whole of Latour's argument" are wrong. Net heat transfer doesn't have to flow from plate to source in order to cause the heat source to be hotter. Just reducing the net heat flow from source to plate is sufficient to warm the plate, as long as electrical heating power is constant.
... you're conflating electrical power with "emissive power" or irradiance, which are different things, in different units. Sheesh. You'd at least expect a "physicist" to get that much right. So I gave that much away. And you still didn't deserve it.
... Now I have given you your bone, doggie. GO AWAY. [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-28]
No. As I originally said: "Using irradiance (power/m^2) simplifies the equation... Sage solves Eq. 1 for a constant electric input of 509 W/m^2."
So the variable "electricity" has always been in the same units as irradiance, which made the equations simpler. The electrical power used by the heater is "electricity" times the surface area of the heated plate. I've repeatedly noted that electrical heating power is constant, which means that the variable "electricity" is also constant unless the heated plate shape-shifts to change its surface area. Just to be clear, I haven't been considering shapeshifting plates.
Again, it's fascinating that Jane keeps wrongly implying my previous calculations had units confused, but didn't point out the actual units confusion in the eq. 4 I posted.
... I'm not in the slightest confused.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-28]
That's what I told Demena.
... I still know things you don't. Why do you think I've felt free to be so glib? I've been watching you make a fool of yourself, ever since you revealed what a despicable human being you are (again, just my opinion of course, but I've had some confirmation). My advice to go do something more worthwhile was sincere. Because if you don't, after you are gone, I will quite happily reveal those things and your "legacy" won't be quite what you thought it was. That's not a threat in any way, it's just a description of the truth.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-28]
Empty bluster won't stop me from continuing to debunk your civilization-paralyzing misinformation as long as I can.
... you still have yet to share with us what this "civilization-paralyzing misinformation" is. It isn't in the links you provided above. And you're still wrong about Spencer and Latour. [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-28]
Yes it was. And you're still spreading Dr. Latour's civilization-paralyzing Slayer misinformation:
... The plate cannot cause the heat source to be hotter because that would require NET heat transfer in the other direction.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-20]
No. Again, warming the heat source doesn't require net heat transfer from the plate to the source. At equilibrium, power in = power out. Because electrical heating power is constant, the heat source warms even if net "power out" decreases. It doesn't have to reverse direction (plate to source) in order to warm the source.
Maybe an analogy would help. Suppose water flows from a bathtub faucet at a rate of 1 liter/minute. The drain is open, letting water out at 1 liter/minute. Since water in = water out, the bathtub water level is constant.
Now partially close the drain so water only leaves at 0.5 liter/minute. Since water in > water out, the bathtub water level rises.
Raising the bathtub water level doesn't require that the drain reverse direction and start pumping water up from the drain into the bathtub. Because the faucet pours a constant 1 liter/minute into the tub, raising the water level only requires reducing the water out.
Modern awesome ones to have (not going to name super obvious classics or reading other comments first):
Beat Hazard has everything that was great about old arcade games made for a modern systems and interlaced with music you provide.
I consider World of Goo to be a must-have.
As for social meat-space games Cards Against Humanity is a favorite, but not exactly for all company.
One of my favorite board games as a kid isn't being produced anymore and I can't think of another that screams it needs to be considered so, meh.
It looks to me like they intentionally darkened the image of the WiiU output. I have the Mario Classics collection (basically Mario All Stars) on my Wii, it looks beautiful on my 36" CRT, and I put the virtual console version of the original Super Mario Brothers on my parents Wii, again, looks great on their 60" LCD, other than some aspect ratio induced bad feelings.
Of course advertising materials have a reason to push for their product instead of virtual console.
... I was only partly wrong about the NATO rounds.
... I wasn't wrong, my information was just old. ... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-27]
Condescendingly lecturing a veteran like this was wrong: "Bullshit, dude. Maybe where your tour was... Just plain bullshit.
... So sure, I've made some small errors. And admitted them when I did. But that is only a minority of links above, which you are apparently trying to claim are all "nonsense". Like the beta decay: after some initial confusion I asked how the oscillations take place, and someone answered. I admitted that I was wrong.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-27]
No, after delt0r answered, you insisted he must not have understood your point. After I repeated delt0r's point, you claimed that you had got yourself sorted out already and accused me of butting in and insulting you.
You've repeated this pattern ad nauseum. After your neutrino rant, you repeatedly claimed that I missed where you admitted you were wrong and asked me "why didn't you bother to repeat the part...?" when I actually had repeated that part and responded to it.
In fact, the more I read of these old streams, the more I've found where I was actually correct. (Like the one on bicycle stability for instance.) I have a copy of that paper right here and it says I was correct.
... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-27]
It's more likely that your Sauron-class Morton's demon told you that it says you were correct. Just like you've insisted you were still correct about punctuation despite never providing sentences with the plurals of i, a, and u.
... YOUR problem is that you claim these things are nonsense, but you haven't disproved a single one of them. Why not?
... in a lot of it I wasn't wrong at all, you just think I was. ... [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-27]
Because you're galloping faster than any Gish Gallop I've ever seen, and because despite your protests you seldom accept refutations for longer than about 5 minutes anyway.
... One last thing, to anybody else who has bothered to wade through all his bullshit: ask yourselves why he's keeping a record of ALL the comments I made on Slashdot over a period of years that he thinks were wrong. Do YOU do that to people? No, you don't, do you? That's because YOU are probably a normal human being, who doesn't stalk or obsess over strangers. [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-27]
I probably don't have more than about a month to live, so I'm obsessing over my legacy. The misinformation you're spreading seems like the biggest current threat to humanity, so I'll spend my final days debunking you.
... Your attempts to shame me haven't been coming off too well, you know. [Jane Q. Public, 2014-08-27]
One disturbing possibility is that you can't experience shame, which is why I'm trying to figure out why you're shamelessly posing as a woman. Maybe the way you were raised could help answer this question.
... I was seriously concerned that my dad might start thinking I was gay or something.
:0) [Lonny Eachus, 2009-11-01]
I was sure by then my father must have been convinced I was gay or something. [Lonny Eachus, 2011-03-07]
... seriously thinking: "Oh, shit. My father probably thinks I'm gay or something now." [Lonny Eachus, 2011-12-23]
Well, you would have to know too that my father was a pretty serious bigot and gay-basher, both. It's how HE was raised. [Lonny Eachus, 2011-12-23]
I meant what I said to Demena. I dismissed the possibility that you're transgendered after you claimed that was quite literally not your problem. But if your gay-bashing bigot father left you confused about your gender then I'll apologize, retract my accusations, and support you as you experiment with your gender identity.
Releasing this burden might even let you stop spreading civilization-paralyzing misinformation. Jane/Lonny Eachus would have fewer stains on his legacy, and civilization would be less paralyzed. Win-win.
"Look! There! Evil!.. pure and simple, total evil from the Eighth Dimension!" -- Buckaroo Banzai
