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Comment Re:missing the point (Score 1) 173

It would have taken a lot of Lunokhod missions true, but most likely it would have been at a much lower cost.

Than a national prestige mission that happened to have some scientific output as part of the package? A manned exploration program that put some effort into reducing costs would also have been much lower cost than Apollo.

How much cost reduction is debatable. A significant part of the payload for a manned mission has to be devoted towards keeping the living cargo....well... living. Apollo wasn't a mision about national prestige... it was simply stark fear. That did get kind of muted after the crash of Luna 15, and space eventually became a cooperative venture between the two powers. The Soviet Union even supplied the flight path of Luna 15 to ensure Apollo would not collide with it. That itself is places the Soviet Union as a corrobative witness to the moonflight.

Comment Re:missing the point (Score 1) 173

It will _always_ be more cost effective to send robot probes and that includes sample return missions.

Citation required, i.e., show me the numbers.

Granted, a single Lunokhod mission was cheaper (most likely) than a single Apollo mission, but compare a few grams of returned dust samples against hundreds of kilos of samples hand-picked by astronauts with geology training (and in one case, a professional geologist), plus the seismometers, magnetometers, solar wind samples, heat flow instruments, etc, etc emplaced or recovered by the Apollo crews.

How many Lunokhod missions would it take to equal that, and what would they have cost?

It would have taken a lot of Lunokhod missions true, but most likely it would have been at a much lower cost. Not to mention safety. The last three Apollo missions weren't canceled out of cost issues, but the realization that the NASA had been playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette when they could have easily lost an Apollo crew to solar flares as depicted in the fate of Apollo 18 in Jame's Michner's "Space". The loss of an Apollo crew would have been considered a propaganda disaster in the Cold War tainting the U.S. only real "first" in the space race, so having shown that we could repeatedly send men to the moon, the decision was quietly made to end it at 17.

Comment Re:One small post for man (Score 1) 173

Nixon's policies ended a war that started in 1940 when Vietnam pussed out and went the side of the Vichy French on an official capacity, but internally, amongst the people, couldn't decide if they want to be vichy(anti-allies), commie(anti-japan), or free(anti-commie/japan); hence, 35 years of war with minor and major powers in play. It could be put even more succinctly by saying it was a multi-decade multi-war over control of a majority of the world's rubber supply. Basically over 5,000,000 people died from 1940-1975 so you can wear rubbers.

Actually, Nixon prolonged that war when it could have ended in 1968. Deciding that a successful peace treaty would have been too big an electoral advantage for the Democrats, he sabotaged the peace conference by targeted messages to both sides of the table, effectively killing the peace process.

Comment Re:Size? (Score 1) 129

I wonder, when astronomers say 11 times the size of Jupiter, does that mean 11 times the radius, the mass, or that you could fill the sphere of its volume with 11 jupiters? Or the circle area as seen from earth?

It would always be by mass, since it's pretty much nearly impossible to actually get a reading on the radius. Also physics pretty much determines what happens when you've got a gas giant of that mass.

Comment Re:Upper limit on planets? Lower limit on stars (Score 1) 129

Becoming a star requires at a minimum many times the mass of jupiter. As small stars exist, there's therefore a likelihood that there are gas giants almost as big a the minimum to make a star.

A quick google seems to suggest that's 8% the size of the son

As Jupiter is 0.1% size the son, 11x the size of jupiter doesn't seem that big. We should be able to find "planets" up to almost 80x larger

http://www.space.com/21420-smallest-star-size-red-dwarf.html http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=jupiter%20mass%20compared%20to%20sun&t=crmtb01

Those are objects known as Brown Dwarfs which would put them at a different category than Jovian planet. I believe that the minimum mass to establish fusion is something on the order of one tenth solar mass. Brown Dwarves radiate Infared radiation due to heat from residual gravitational collapse. Presumably the standard is considerably higher than Jupiter which also radiates more heat than it absorbs from the Sun.

Comment Re:Can someone who knows about astronomy fill me i (Score 1) 129

Nice article, but that only says how they get the age of a star. I suppose that puts an upper limit on the age of the planet.

At least if we assume that the planet was formed with the star. But what if the planet had formed around another star, and then was ejected from that system due to some disturbance, to be later captured by the star it is circling now?

That would be kind of tricky. The planet is moving at escape velocity from it's original star, in most cases, encountering another solar system would have it either just passing through, or it would wind up in a very eccentric orbit. which would not necessarily be in the same plane as the local ecliptic.

Comment Re:Can someone who knows about astronomy fill me i (Score 3, Informative) 129

And what exactly do we know about planet formation? If anything, we have a hunch how our system formed, but it's neither certain nor do we have any clue whether it's the norm. We already know that our system is in some ways "special", from the rather high amount of trans-HE material to its position in the galactic disc to the mere fact that it's not a multi-star system.

Actually we still don't know enough about stellar formation to determine how far from the norm, the Solar System actually is. The reason that we find so many oddball systems and planets is that those are the easiest systems and planets to find. We are in a form golden area of our Galaxy, far enough from the galactic center that we're not subject to it's nasty radiation and stellar activity, yet not so far that we'd lack in heavy elements. Keep in mind also that most planet detection methods rely on the target solar system being oriented edge on towards us so the planet can intercept the star's light by passing between it and us. That's going to leave a lot out.

Comment Re:crowdfunding (Score 1) 191

Aside from the actual task at hand, SETI may produce a plethora of other helpful information as a byproduct. Perhaps the folks at SETI should look into crowdfunding their efforts and in exchange they could provide scientific data an easily consumable formats. They could also take a look at crowdfunding under the Jobs Act (title III).

Only if that information is catalogued, notated, and distributed in a useful manner, which they may not be devoting manpower or other resources to do.

Comment Re:crowdfunding (Score 1) 191

Aside from the task at hand I'm sure there is a plethora of other information that SETI yields. It would be nice if all data was published in an easily consumable format. The resulting data could be a nice carrot to entice people to help crowdfund the effort.

While much of that data is probably useful in a scientific sense, a catalog of emission numbers and coordinates is not exactly the sexy sell to the public that Hubble pictures were.

Comment Re:Well (Score 1) 191

Yeah cause the aliens have a different EM spectrum to work with.... ST Voyager not picking up the RF signal was ridiculous and only there as a plot device.

"Different EM spectrum." That really makes my day. That's right up there with "Heisenberg Compensator". Lets hear it for Trek Science!

Comment I'm thinking of pulling the plug on Seti@Home.... (Score 1) 191

I've been running this screen saver on various machines for years. Last night, I took look at it running data from 2009, and I've been wondering? Are they recycling old data? And more to the point since there are other Bionic projects out there, is there a more fruitful use for my computer's spare cycles? Something that might actually have an expectation of positive return to humanity. At the very least, seti is going to have to start sharing time with other more relevant Bionic projects. I'm still thinking of terminating my participation altogether, as much as I still have enthusiasm for space itself.

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