it's duplication

which is great!

but why destroy the original? just to call it teleportation? seems ridiculous

only if no one hears him

they are trapped in this figurative cage we call modern day living.

taking heroin is merely the temporary relief form the typical pains of existence we all experience, to be replaced with a far far worse and much greater pain of addiction

whatever problems you had in life before heroin, are now 100x worse after

You should stop dictating what choices other people make

i'm an empty voice on the internet, i have no power

meanwhile, a drug that rewires your basic reward pathways dictates to you with a freedom destroying, happiness destroying power many times greater than the most fascist authoritarian government of hate you can imagine

wake up from your poorly rationalized denial, or grow some true wisdom about what something like heroin really means to freedom and happiness

http://www.reddit.com/r/Atlant...

It's like having the worst girlfriend ever, who you are madly in love with but who treats you like shit, makes you sell your car and house and furniture and even your high school yearbook that your crush from 10th grade signed and told you that you were cute. She's told you to stop talking to anyone you've ever cared about, they don't want to talk to you while you're still dating her anyways. You sell your clothes so she can go out and buy new ones. You eat ramen every meal so she ca eat at the best restaurant in town. In the morning you think about her and in the evening you think about her and when you go to take a crap but you can't because you're constipated you're reminded of her. You wake up and if she's not in bed with you you get the chills, your eyes water, you have diarrhea, you sneeze, your muscles ache, you have anxiety, you have depression, you don't want to eat because food isn't appealing even though your stomach is rumbling, you don't particularly want to drink but you're dehydrated so you force yourself to drink some water, and during all this your skin is crawling as if it was dirty covered in goose-bumps from who knows where and you wish you were still asleep so you could at least pretend she was still in the bed with you. But you're awake now. So you get out of bed, and you go find her. Maybe today you won't have to do something that compromises your morals to find out where she's gone, but really you don't even care, as long as there is a way. You walk an hour and forty five minutes to get on the bus. You travel for another 45 minutes on public transportation. You get off at the train station in the bad part of town. All the while you have to shit so bad but you know once you find her that will be solved. You're hungry but dont want to eat, once you find her you can eat. You feel dirty and sad and anxious but once you find her she'll bathe you and make you happy and calm. But right now your walking through the ghetto. You walk another 20 minutes. Maybe it's cold and raining, if so you are so so so cold. Maybe it's hotter than hell and that just makes you feel dirtier. You find a guy that knows where she is. He says he'll go get her and bring her to you. And the cops pass you as you're talking to him and they have to know what's up. What's someone like you doing in this part of town? So the 10 minute wait for her to come back to you accompanied by the guy who could give two shits about you as long as you bring him money seems like an eternity. Maybe he'll run off with her and your money. Maybe she wont be looking so hot today, maybe she won't be herself. Maybe he'll come back with a woman you don't know and don't want to meet but now your money is gone and you're broke and sick and a good few hours away before you can get some more money and the world might as well be over in your opinion. But your girlfriend comes back, he brings her, and she gives you a kiss on the cheek. Then you go home, to your mattress and your overdue rent and the lack of food and the piled up bills and the same clothes you've been wearing for three days and your parents that have called but you never answer and your friends that invite you out but you never go, but you're home and she's there with you. Eventually you go to bed. But she's never there the next morning, and you know she won't be, and you wish someone invented a way to pause time, or go back in time, to that first time you met her, the first couple months when you guys hung out, before she made you sell everything to be with her, but you can't and you're fucked. And you know it.

so what's the next desperate rationalization attempt? you're immune to basic brain chemistry and won't get addicted? i myself drive 120 mph on the highway all the time, and i'm never going to crash. i'm immune to physics!

drugs are the negative externality

an addict is not happy

in fact, their capacity for happiness has been permanently degraded, even after they kick the habit. whatever temporary pain they had has been replaced by a permanent reduction in range of choice. for now their very brain chemistry tells them to feed something that in no way contributes to their happiness or freedom. it is a monkey on their back

It's like having the worst girlfriend ever, who you are madly in love with but who treats you like shit, makes you sell your car and house and furniture and even your high school yearbook that your crush from 10th grade signed and told you that you were cute. She's told you to stop talking to anyone you've ever cared about, they don't want to talk to you while you're still dating her anyways. You sell your clothes so she can go out and buy new ones. You eat ramen every meal so she ca eat at the best restaurant in town. In the morning you think about her and in the evening you think about her and when you go to take a crap but you can't because you're constipated you're reminded of her. You wake up and if she's not in bed with you you get the chills, your eyes water, you have diarrhea, you sneeze, your muscles ache, you have anxiety, you have depression, you don't want to eat because food isn't appealing even though your stomach is rumbling, you don't particularly want to drink but you're dehydrated so you force yourself to drink some water, and during all this your skin is crawling as if it was dirty covered in goose-bumps from who knows where and you wish you were still asleep so you could at least pretend she was still in the bed with you. But you're awake now. So you get out of bed, and you go find her. Maybe today you won't have to do something that compromises your morals to find out where she's gone, but really you don't even care, as long as there is a way. You walk an hour and forty five minutes to get on the bus. You travel for another 45 minutes on public transportation. You get off at the train station in the bad part of town. All the while you have to shit so bad but you know once you find her that will be solved. You're hungry but dont want to eat, once you find her you can eat. You feel dirty and sad and anxious but once you find her she'll bathe you and make you happy and calm. But right now your walking through the ghetto. You walk another 20 minutes. Maybe it's cold and raining, if so you are so so so cold. Maybe it's hotter than hell and that just makes you feel dirtier. You find a guy that knows where she is. He says he'll go get her and bring her to you. And the cops pass you as you're talking to him and they have to know what's up. What's someone like you doing in this part of town? So the 10 minute wait for her to come back to you accompanied by the guy who could give two shits about you as long as you bring him money seems like an eternity. Maybe he'll run off with her and your money. Maybe she wont be looking so hot today, maybe she won't be herself. Maybe he'll come back with a woman you don't know and don't want to meet but now your money is gone and you're broke and sick and a good few hours away before you can get some more money and the world might as well be over in your opinion. But your girlfriend comes back, he brings her, and she gives you a kiss on the cheek. Then you go home, to your mattress and your overdue rent and the lack of food and the piled up bills and the same clothes you've been wearing for three days and your parents that have called but you never answer and your friends that invite you out but you never go, but you're home and she's there with you. Eventually you go to bed. But she's never there the next morning, and you know she won't be, and you wish someone invented a way to pause time, or go back in time, to that first time you met her, the first couple months when you guys hung out, before she made you sell everything to be with her, but you can't and you're fucked. And you know it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Atlant...

You have nothing to back that assertion up... I might as well say nothing destroys freedom more than being an idiot arguing against drug legalisation on the internet... It's a baseless assertion.

i stopped reading there. if you understood the chemistry of opiates, you would understand they hijack basic reward pathways in the brain stronger than any want, desire, or need we could ever have: social contact, sex, even food

how can you take a thinking human being, root all of their wants, needs, and desires to opium instead, and not call that the destruction of freedom? i'm just an empty voice on the internet, i have no power over you. you think that's in the same league as a chemical which interrupts every single motivation possible?

take someone whose thought is art, philosophy, science... and replace it with a zombie that thinks... fix, fix, i need my fix. if i give you a lobotomy... are you as free as before the lobotomy? addiction is nothing but a chemical lobotomy

there is no better way to crystallize and perfect the destruction of human freedom, than at the very chemical roots of our brain

yes, if we lived in a utopia where all our needs were taken care of, and we had the tiny minds of fucking *rodents*, opiates might be easy to get off and on

but being creatures with complex minds aware of existential stresses and the simple pain and drudgery of daily life that no rat can conceptualize, there is no rat park that ever could be constructed that would satisfy us more than something like heroin

Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

we're not rats. there is no rat park for us

because we *think*. and for those of us suicidal to replace reality with heroin, reality, as *humans* see it, is never better

that some cotton candy heads might actually *choose* to destroy their freedom is only a testament to ignorance, stubborn deluded cluelessness, desperate pain without proper social help, and loopy rationalizations

there is no greater fight at preserving and extending freedom than the basic maintenance effort of civilization to minimize the drug trade

drugs destroy lives and freedom at a root far deeper than any social hierarchy or political ideology: chemistry over mind

the most insidious vicious freedom destroying authoritarian government possible, would dose the populace with heroin, as the ultimate exertion of absolute control

there exists nothing that is capable of destroying free will better than hard drugs

bars in the mind, an interrupt switch in your very consciousness, is far greater control against your free will than any physical restraint possible

and look:

authoritarian control via hard drug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

the fascist origins:

http://www.tofugu.com/2012/04/...

war and imperialism achieved through hard drug:

http://www.victorianweb.org/hi...

you want to destroy freedom? meth, heroin, coke... nothing destroys freedom better

that some cotton candy heads might actually *choose* to destroy their freedom is only a testament to ignorance, stubborn deluded cluelessness, desperate pain without proper social help, and loopy rationalizations

there is no greater fight at preserving and extending freedom than the basic maintenance effort of civilization to minimize the drug trade

drugs destroy lives and freedom at a root far deeper than any social hierarchy or political ideology: chemistry over mind

Firstly, it's not magical... Will power or not, some get addicted, most do not.

see i stopped reading there. you're right, it's not magic, it's the basic science of pharmacology

what you said is akin to saying gravity makes some people fall down, but not most. or only a few take an effective dose of potassium chloride and die, the rest live. or many can take an effective dose of lsd and feel no effects

it doesn't work that way

we're not talking about sensation, mood, feeling. we're talking about biology, chemistry, science. there is no escape or bending the power heroin has over your basic circuits of biological need. on heroin, you can forego human contact, sex... food. everything. heroin roots deeper than all of the basic biological drives. and your body, having identified something that answers it's drives far stronger than your normal drives, seeks that, turns to that, a force stronger than anything your mind can hold against it (and then your mind, capable of rationalizing anything, regurgitates crap like you just wrote)

the chemistry of opiates interferes with basic biochemical pathways in the brain far deeper and stronger than any conscious control

everyone, absolutely *everyone* gets addicted to heroin, it's just a matter of time. it's simple chemistry

you should stop talking about a subject you don't understand, or stop with your paper thin bullshit junkie rationalizations

there is no destroyer of freedom, in the history of our species, than drug addiction

the most sadistic fascist authoritarian torturer in his wildest imagination could not devise a greater freedom destroyer than putting bars in your mind. a constantinterrupt switch, where instead of thinking about art or philosophy or science... gotta get my fix... gotta get my fix... gotta get my fix. permanent degradation

nevermind the logical paradox of it all: "you can't deny me my freedom... to destroy my freedom" wha?

to PREVENT you from removing your freedom is the PRESERVATION of your freedom

it really is like the question surrounding suicide. if your mind is sound and your body is unsound, yeah, suicide is ok. but if your body is sound and your mind is unsound, suicide is a sign of sickness to be treated. and drug addiction is nothing more than slow motion suicide

you can prevent people from using highly addictive drugs and preserve their freedom. preventing drug addiction is fighting for freedom. because the drug is the greater threat to it

the idea you need a drug to be creative is a tired old chestnut that requires no refutation by anyone serious. at worst, there are talentless hacks who take drugs because they think it makes them brilliant or for the subculture mystique. but now they are just drug addicted talentless hacks

some take it to be more productive. of course, they're just borrowing time from later, when the drug fucks their lives up so much they're far less productive for a much longer time, or, far worse, dead. gee, it's great they snorted lines and were productive for an extra week. too bad they're far less productive when they crash for months, or worse, lose decades of their life. gee, what a great productivity boost. think about how much more these artists would have contributed more of had they actually fucking lived instead of killed by drugs. and if you don't believe me, ask keith richards and why he quit (below)

if you take heroin because you think it makes your art better, you're interfering with your productivity later when you're still alive, if you're still alive. you decrease your output overall. short term gain, much larger long term loss. whatever edge you think the drugs take off there are many better ways to take off the edge without destroying your fucking life. but don't take my word for it: stop lying to yourself and those of us who actually know better and know all the ins and outs of the bullshit rationalizations, and listen to the truth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

Parker died on March 12, 1955, in the suite of his friend and patron Baroness Pannonica de Koenigswarter at the Stanhope Hotel in New York City, while watching The Dorsey Brothers' Stage Show on television. The official causes of death were lobar pneumonia and a bleeding ulcer, but Parker also had an advanced case of cirrhosis and had suffered a heart attack. The coroner who performed his autopsy mistakenly estimated Parker's 34-year-old body to be between 50 and 60 years of age.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...

Coltrane died from liver cancer at Huntington Hospital on Long Island on July 17, 1967, at the age of 40. His funeral was held four days later at St. Peter's Lutheran Church in New York City. The service was opened by the Albert Ayler Quartet and closed by the Ornette Coleman Quartet. Coltrane is buried at Pinelawn Cemetery in Farmingdale, New York. The biographer Lewis Porter has suggested that the cause of Coltrane's illness was hepatitis, although he also attributed the disease to Coltrane's heroin use.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

During the last years of Miles Davis's life, there were rumors that he had AIDS, something that he and his manager Peter Shukat vehemently denied.[5][61] According to Quincy Troupe by that time Davis was taking azidothymidine (AZT), a type of antiretroviral drug used for the treatment of HIV/AIDS.[21][62]

http://healthland.time.com/201...

In Richards’s new memoir, Life, one of the most interesting revelations about recovery involves the role of music, his work and passion, in the rocker’s decision to give up heroin and cocaine. For a time, drugs helped fuel his work — many of the Stones’ greatest songs were written during the peak of Richards’s drug use. But eventually, his heroin habit turned on him, threatening his ability to make music at all, which prompted him to quit. (More on Time.com: Addiction Files: Recovering From Drug Addiction, Without Abstinence)

Certainly, Richards had countless reasons to quit drugs — he’d suffered the death of a child and the drug-related deaths of several friends and band mates — but it wasn’t until Richards began to believe that drugs were getting in the way of his music that he finally did.

Writes Peele:

There were accumulated drug problems. First, there were the neverending legal hassles. And there was the constant search for the stuff on the road. Plus, Keith — a man who never said no — was distressed that he was hooked. He was guilty taking his son on tour with him (Richards feels worse than his son says he should be about this trip). And, finally, there were darker moments — not only the death of user friends like Gram Parker, but of his and Anita’s (who shared Keith’s drug tastes) two-month old son while Keith is away. But, more than anything, Keith became concerned when the serious drugs didn’t work for the music any more.

The power of life’s meaning and purpose over addiction is rarely mentioned in media accounts of drug problems, but research repeatedly finds that addicts in recovery do better when they have a sense of mission, a sense that what they do matters to others and is necessary. Without key sources of meaning and purpose — like children, relationships and productive work — addicts rarely stay clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

Kurt Cobain, the lead singer of the American rock band Nirvana, was found dead at his home— located at 171 Lake Washington Boulevard East in Seattle, Washington, on April 8, 1994. Forensic analysis determined that he had committed suicide three days prior on April 5. The Seattle Police Department incident report states: "Kurt Cobain was found with a shotgun across his body, had a visible head wound and there was a suicide note discovered nearby." The King County Medical Examiner noted puncture wounds on the inside of both the right and left elbow. Prior to his death, Cobain had checked out of a drug rehabilitation facility and had been reported as suicidal by his wife Courtney Love.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

At about 3:00 am on May 13, 1988, Baker was found dead on the Prins Hendrikkade, near the Zeedijk, the street below his second-story room (Room 210) of Hotel Prins Hendrik in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, with serious wounds to his head. Heroin and cocaine were found in his hotel room, and an autopsy also found these drugs in his body. There was no evidence of a struggle, and the death was an accident. A plaque outside the hotel memorializes him and the room he was staying in is named "The Chet Baker Room".

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/...

Of his good looks and the loose jazz milieu. But ""I thought, 'I've got to stop this!'"" And: ""Heroin stopped it for me,"" providing self-loving peace of mind. Thus began nearly 20 arrest-prone, fix-hungry years in and out of county jails, Fort Worth Hospital, and San Quentin, with a mix of music-making and burglary when not in prison. Pepper describes it all in repetitious detail: cold turkey (""It's awful but it's quiet. You just lay there and suffer""), prison-survival tactics among ""the dregs of humanity"" (through it all, his greatest horror is of homosexual contact), the cockroaches, the racism, the tattoos. And, after first wife Patti, two she-monsters to keep him company: dumb, suicidal Diane (""The Great Zeeero""), whose only way to stay alive was to join in shooting up; and creepy, tough Christine, handy with a knife at the throat. Then, finally, dangerously ill while on tour with Buddy Rich in '69 and ""finished with life"" at 44, Pepper tried communal salvation at Synanon-which he didn't like much; but he found wife #3 Laurie there, and that led to a methadone program

anyone else? all stories of art and drugs is not a story of production and creativity. but shortened lives, lost productivity, and stunted creativity. drugs destroy art. if you don't understand this, you have the bullshit rationalizations of a junkie you will reverse later in your life (if you live), or you just have the dimwitted propaganda of a noob who fetishizes the shallow trappings of a subculture scene

heroin is highly addictive. it's stronger than willpower. it takes over your life. you can't work or maintain relationships. it destroys lives

"i know a guy who uses heroin all the time and makes six figures..." yeah, and i know pink panda that eats moonrocks. basic biochemistry is not denied when you are talking about a drug like heroin. it overwhelms your brain chemistry and overpowers your willpower. you *will* become an addict and your life *will* be destroyed. heroin is stronger than you. no one, absolutely no one, is stronger than heroin

"if Philip Seymour Hoffman had access to legal heroin he would be alive today..." you build up a tolerance. you need more and more to maintain your high. eventually, your tolerance threshold, and the threshold where the dose kills you via respiratory depression, begins to overlap. so there is no way to continue your addiction without killing yourself. you must take less than your need demands, or you will die. if you choose life, you must choose a lower dose, so you will have withdrawal. heroin withdrawal is a torturous hell perhaps like no other torture mankind has devised. death might seem better

"it's my life, i can destroy it if i want to..." except you aren't an island. when you become a useless addict, the rest of society has to clothe and feed your useless ass. i'd rather prevent you from becoming useless in the first place. society is not in the business of letting people die, and never will be. the disrespect to your own life by using heroin might rule your world, but it doesn't rule society. if you can get ten pounds of pure heroin and move to the center of greenland and use until you're dead and beyond the reach of all society's help, go ahead. but if you're going to use heroin and become an addict in the civilized world, you just forced us to make your problem our problem. $$$

"addicts should get healthcare not jail..." i agree 100%. programs to get people into withdrawal and back onto a stable life without heroin is what society needs to do, not lock up nonviolent addicts. and then what? well, they can't do heroin anymore. which means *control*. which is what society already does by cracking down on drug trade. and here we are, at the beginning of this topic

i love portugal. please note: heroin is still illegal in portugal and those who *sell* heroin still go to jail. in other words, the war on drugs still continues in portugal, it's just that portugal uses better *tactics* in the war on drugs than the USA does: healthcare instead of jail for nonviolent addicts

the war on drugs always existed, and always will. ever since the tribe notice groog just wants to lay around drinking fermented fruit juice all day instead of carrying his weight foraging for mushrooms or going on the hunt, society has noticed drugs are a problem. people have problems. they need help. society should offer help. using drugs is just a symptom you need help in your life, not an actual help. drugs are used to blot out the pain of a painful life for some. the problem is, substituting the temporary pain of a failed relationship or being fired from a job, with a permanent life hobbling addiction, does not help, and never will. still, as long as people live in a society where free will is respected, some people with problems will take their free will and use it to commit slow motion suicide with drugs, making themselves society's problem

so the war on drugs (which includes the notion of helping addicts, but will never include free trade in drugs as hardcore as heroin) always existed and always will exist

it's just a maintenance function of civilization

any law about anything is exactly the same as soul crushing slavery!

don't tread on muh freedumbs!

we do live in a world where we are liberated and free to trade

except for items which are deemed illegal for a given reason

some of those reasons are stupid. so we change the laws. for example: marijuana is becoming legal. isn't that amazing? the population actually has a voice and can vote and change their laws. hmmm... that's not very dystopian nor kafkaesque

heroin and meth and kiddie porn and RPGs never will be legal. go ahead, put it to vote. i think marijuana should be legal. most agree with me. i don't think i want my neighbor getting grenades in the mail. most will agree with me

maybe you're a horrible repressed minority denied your god given freedom to hand grenades in the mail?

or maybe you're a hysterical drama queen who thinks all of society is hell just because you can't get hand grenades in the mail?

"think of the children" is often used as a show of how hysterical people can be panicked into giving up freedoms. well, it is equally braindead hysterical to think you're entire reality is a hellish dystopian fasicst authoritarian state of no freedoms... just because you can't get kiddie porn or meth in the mail?

i'm going to go way out on a limb here, see if you can bear with me for a moment, with a really radical mind blowing concept: we actually don't live in a fascist state. just because you can't get plutonium or bazookas in the mail, doesn't mean your country is basically the same as north korea. i know, really wacky far out concept dude. whoa

do you think society has no right to restrict material which causes harm?

it does

and it always will

forever

because some substances/ items actually cause harm and have no fucking reason to be in civil society

ever

the concept of freedom?

completely untouched by this simple truth

we, society, LIKE restrictions on, for example, kiddie porn. and we support our government, which we elect, to enforce those restrictions. and we always will. because we don't want children harmed and... most important point here... drum roll please... harming children infringes on their rights and freedoms. WHOA DUDE, FAR OUT

if some substance, like marijuana, should obviously not be restricted, because that's fucking stupid, we actually change the fucking laws. and we did. and we will on any other laws about restrictions which makes no fucking sense

this is where you get really mad at me and compare me to an authoritarian freedom crushing "statist" goon... just because i don't want people freely trading in kiddie porn or heroin. which would make you a brainless teenaged drama queen. let's hope you're not

4chan is a cesspool of filth

but much like charlie hebdo or hustler, i'm glad it exists

it shows the society that tolerates it has moral superiority. i'm deadly serious

the thoughts that go on in media like this exist everywhere in the world

but by tolerating it, rather than repressing it, we show that we are confident, secure, and open minded

elsewhere in the world, where people often talk a lot about their "morality" in comparison to the "decadent" west, they have no problem using violence to repress simple human nonsense that is without real consequence. violence? in response to stupid immature shit? that's not morality at all. that's insecurity, weakness, lack of faith

4chan /b/ is a pile of useless crap. there is no reason to ever visit it unless you are an immature douchebag

but if any of it actually makes you feel insecure, or makes you angry, you have a problem. you are the immoral weak person with immoral thoughts. if it drives you to violence, YOU are what is wrong with the world

human nature has many good and bad aspects. the point is rise above your baser instincts. not go to war with them. like any troll, to fight filth simply feeds it, and announce to the world that it is your equal or it is your master