Yes, all rape is unwanted sexual contact.
Not all unwanted sexual contact is rape.

This was about unwanted sexual contact in general.

Except we're talking about a specific report of this incident happening. It's called ElevatorGate. Have you looked that up yet?

I have not even partially accused you of being a molester? Monster? Or whatever. I asked you a rhetorical question to show that what I am saying is perfectly reasonable. IF you are going proposition strange women, don't do it when they're alone with no help or escape. You agree with this position, and go further and say just don't proposition strange women. That's absolutely fine. I've never done either. The MENZ of the internet DEMANDED the right to proposition strange women at 4am and many of them said they were entitled to do so in elevators or wherever else they felt like doing it. There was a whole controversy. Called ElevatorGate. Have you highlighted that phrase and selected 'search Google' yet?

I'm aware of what I posted. Let me quote it to you.

If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse).

IE., sat at the bar together where there are other patrons in the bar, a bartender and maybe some security.

Or maybe in lobby of the hotel as you both walk towards the elevator where there is a receptionist and maybe some security and other hotel guests milling around.

Who in his sane mind asks a random women he never has met before about 'sex'?

Elevator Guy.

So what is your nonsense post/accusion about?

ElevatorGate.

Don't interpret bullshit into other peoples posts!

You haven't laid any groundwork of my interpreting other people's posts, so this random nonsense is strange to see.

No I didn't. I specifically said twice that it does not need to be within earshot.

Why would anyone do that, oh yes ... certainly in your experience this happens.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/E...

That's what this subthread is about.

I mean, seriously!
Do you think these are place women really want strange men to proposition them for sex?

Dark Alleyways
In the park at night
In a low traffic stairwell of a near empty building
In an underground parking garage
In an elevator
On the subway
Just before she opens the front door to her inner city house at 3AM in the morning

Because if you do, then you are the one with a serious problem.

On the other hand, elevegator guy could have have quietly asked her on the way to the elevator and if she said 'no', he could let her catch the elevator on her own. But he waited until it was enclosed space with nobody watching. You don't see why this might not be cool?

I didn't suggest you do that.

I suggested you made sure there were people around, not necessarily within earshot.

Do you think walking up to strange women when they are alone with no prospect of immediate help around and propositioning them for sex is polite?

It is perfectly logical to call a tomato a vegetable. Because it is a vegetable (culinarily speaking). It's also a fruit (botanically speaking).

Ah, 'some "feminists"'. They're always up to no good those 'some "feminists"'.

First, we're talking cold propositions here. The kind of proposition where there has been no previous conversation/flirtation etc.
Second, I didn't suggest doing it so others can overhear - indeed I pointed this out. Just so that they can see what's going on - or at the very least the lady you are propositioning has an easy way to get to witnesses (so avoid metal cages suspended in the air, for example).

This is because some men are gigantic assholes who, when it is safe for them to do so, get aggressive at 'bitches' that turn them down, and being alone with a testosterone-fuelled human with hard-on is pretty terrifying because the consequences can turn horrifying. If you want to know what such men can be like when women don't submit and they have basic anonymity? Check out the internet.

So be the gentleman, always make sure the ladies you proposition can politely turn you down without fear.

If nothing else, realize this - if you cold proposition a woman on her own, she may feel that it isn't a 'request' and you may end up inadvertently raping or sexually assaulting someone if she says OK out of fear. I doubt you'd be prosecuted for such a rape, but morally you'd be a rapist. Play on the safe side, always give girls an out.

I'm glad to see you have corrected your argument from it's previously incorrect position.

They don't define "unwanted sexual contact." For example, Bora Zivkovic had a habit of hugging women, some of whom didn't enjoy it. That is literally an "unwanted sexual contact." It may be creepy, unpleasant or inappropriate, and it should (and did) stop. But it's not rape.

This study is about unwanted sexual contact, not rape. If you don't know what unwanted sexual contact means, take a course. Hint, pressing your body up against an unwilling partner is unwanted sexual contact.

This study doesn't distinguish between unwanted hugging and forcible rape, and it doesn't break down the 26% figure into more or less violent forms of unwanted sexual contact. It doesn't even give the number of violent rapes.

Aww, does it not discuss legitimate rape? It's a study about sexual assault.

If you have an unknown number of unwanted huggings, at one end of the spectrum, and an unknown number of violent rapes, at the other end of the spectrum, then that's a big grey area.

Not if you are looking at rates of sexual assault. In which case, it's exactly what you were looking for.

I'd like to see a better-quality study.

You're free to fund one, or if you think you can do better - perform it yourself.

They used this definition: http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types...

If you are engaging in sexual banter in the workplace and it is making even one of your colleagues uncomfortable you should stop.

And whether that man thinks being persistent will win her over eventually.

If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse). Waiting until your alone in a confined space, if not harassing, is very bad manners to the point of being ungentlemanly. Don't do that, guys.

You should read the study, not the article about the study, if you are going to criticize it. The thing you quoted was about harassment, not assault.

http://www.plosone.org/article...

"Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)"

Is the question about sexual assault.

The grey areas are overwhelmed by the black and white areas. If you feel there are too many grey areas, talk to your manager about getting on a course to help you.