Heh. Thanks A/C, exactly the points I was going to make. Except with a little less sass.

Couple of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation
etc.

So AFAIK the data is not sufficient to do more than place the phone in the general area (at least 100s of meters for the most part).

Most likely explanation for location-gate is that some developer got it working on their hardware, but they tended to re-install the os for testing. So it slipped through. Doesn't make them an idiot, just human.

Sorry but this is not new speak, it's the truth, there's a clear distinction between your lat/long/error radius and a list of towers and wifi locations that MAY be somewhere near you at a given point in time. To determine your location they need to triangualte at the time. The data in the file is not going to let anyone do that after the fact.

If you opt in (use locations services) then they'll send some data to you to help your device get a faster location fix. +1 IMHO.

I'd assume at this point your device may send helpful data back to them. They state that this data is anonymous. Also +1.

Sorry, but this is all blown way out of proportion. Apple isn't perfect, but the response they have given is quite reasonable.

From TFA:

That is, it's keeping track of known locations near you so it can give you a quicker estimate of your location. Even sounds like this list of locations is downloaded from apple and not gathered by iOS. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand? This is exactly the kind of thing you want your devices to do. If they didn't have it everyone would be bitching about how long it takes for the phone to find your location.

I know, I know, I expect the internets to not be full of fools and trolls.

Sigh.

You asked nicely and I'll assume you want a real answer.

The vast majority of users don't know what ssh is. They simply do not care about the stuff you and I do. They just want something simple and that won't confuse them or force them to think about 'tech' stuff. Make it easy for them to check email, browse the web, look at pictures, play games... then they'll buy. iOS does this. It removes the fear non-geeks have of 'computers'.

This does not indicate that they are stupid, or sheeple or whatever the nerdy insult of the week is. It indicates that they have interests other than computers. That's it. And the slashdot/linux/android crowd really need to get this through their heads.

I've been writing code since the VIC-20 days, my Atari 800 had 32K of RAM!. But I'm old enough now that I can appreciate at the end of the day I can sit down with my iPad, cruise the web a bit, watch 30 Rock on Hulu or Farscape on Netflix or play ABs w/o having any distractions.

We tend to think more about the machine we're using than what it is we're trying to do. The finger touchy thing removes that machine part from the equation (more so than anything else out there). You're left with you and the software... And if the software is well done you're left with you and the task at hand. Which makes it boring if you like fiddling with things, but exciting if you just want to get something done.

Go spend 10 min with GarageBand on the iPad... It will likely be enlightening.

Sigh... Everyone keeps calling iPad/iPhone customers 'idiots'. And this is exactly the sort of behavior and mindset that is ultimately self defeating.

Apple is successful because of marketing to some extent, but they also make products that regular people can use w/o feeling like an 'idiot'. Word of mouth and simple peer exposure is what keeps those apple stores packed day in and day out. THAT is the market speaking.

Yes, android is a competitor that is finally doing a lot of things right. Great! Awesome! I hope google can keep it together enough so apple isn't the only game in town. BUT, don't confuse the size of the market that appreciates the Droid Does commercials and knows what linux is with the size of the market that can actually use video phones for the first time ever with FaceTime and likes their iPad w/o really knowing why.

Well I guess it depends on what you're really looking to do when you say hackability. Sounds like you already know that you can hack the iPad at an application level all day long and that tcp/ip,bluetooth and wifi will cover most all connectivity needs these days. So the sticking point seems to be price and perhaps wanting to go with a more 'open' device. Which is fair. I'd suggest that iOS is a stable platform to develop new functionality on top of and in that respect it's better to work on than current Android.. But that's just me.

I will add that I pretty much stopped using my personal laptop at home once I got an iPad. That laptop has turned into a media hub and occasional personal project machine. So perhaps you shouldn't look at an iPad as just a hobby device that you need to limit your $s on. Rather it's a replacement for dropping more $ on yet another laptop for around the house use.

Ah... Love the threading on slashdot. I was replying to nurb432's comment more than the original submission.

The market speaking is people buying things. Customers are giving a serious buttload of money to apple for their take on a tablet/pen/palm computer. Customers are not spending money on all those alternatives. Therefore the market is saying exactly what escort wagon asserted.

qed

How about an iPod touch? I'm serious... They start at 230$. basically a small iPad. I have no opinion of android devices and if that's what you really want then go get one. But if you want an iPad but dont have the bucks then a touch wouldn't be so bad.

Or go mow some lawns and get an iPad... By the time you save up the cash iPad 2 will be out and you'll be happy you waited.

You can develop with the simulator for both the iphone and the iPad all day long with a free developer account. So your basic point isn't accurate.

A developer connection subscription used to be 500 oer year. So they have really dropped the price quite a bit.

All the big companies change for developer access to their stuff. Last I checked a msdn subscription was a fair chunk too.

Seriously. 99/year isn't bad at all. Just think of all the stuff they do

- Xcode on going dev and support
- online and actually up to date docs
- access to all the wwdc session videos
- developer connection website with all the various tools
- early access to ios and lots of other stuff.

So agin.. Less than 10 bucks a month is too much? Really?

Actually I think a big thing everyone misses is that the apple dock connector is often used to support the device. You can drop anything from an iphone4 to a little itty bitty shuffle into a third party cradle and they all are held up just fine.

So it seems pretty clear it's not just a matter fo charge times, or that mini USB sucks, rather a combo of factors that are best solved by using the dock connector.

Seriously, is all this fuss really needed? The USB to dock cable comes with the device and additional ones are cheap... If you don't like it buy something else and have fun.

Geez.

Looks like java written by a c programmer... Which is not all that unexpected. Main problem with it is a severe lack of comments. First comment it then refactor so you might be able to deal with it longer term.

If the rest of android is anything like this then there's a lot of work to do for anyone trying to maintain it long term.

Good programmers have learned to write maintainable code... If they don't then they are not a guru, they are a hack.

To be clear. I'm not saying I LIKE apples approach. Goodness knows they have made life quite difficult for Java over the years. Primaraly due to the cone of silence around everything.

Apple's thinking about the end user first and the devs somewhere further down the list. Which isn't such a bad thing.

I did read it. While I don't know the details they appear to be describing either a:

- runtime translator/vm
or
- a compiler that will emit either obj c for xcode or binary level code that can be linked.

If it was just emitting objc that you then use apple's tool chain to create the app for then i suspect apple might give them some slack. But maybe not. Personally I'd question the long term viability of such a solution.

In either of the other cases the point is that there would be other (3rd party) devs creating apps with this high level language. Apple updates their apis in some incompatible way. You then have the issue so two layers that that api change has to go through.

- The abstraction devs.
- The 3rd party devs.

The more 3rd party devs using it... the greater the chance of mass issues when the api changes.

I'm assuming the renrev guys are good guys and want to provide a nice environment for people to develop apps on. But I can also see apple's point (although I don't like it much myself), that they define and control the api for the iP/P. If you want to write apps for it then you gotta use those apis.

From the perspective of an appliance maker it does make a lot of sense to keep the middlemen out of the equation.

And I'd like it if Apple would be at least a bit more open about any number of things (like java 6 being two years behind)... But Apple's been pretty clear about at least a few points:

1. Don't ship crap. Say what you will about the iPad/iPhone... the hardware and software is definitely not crap.
2. Write once run anywhere always has issues (abstraction layers too). I'm a long time java swing guy and >I know that java apps are not ideal for normal end users.
3. Badly performing apps create a stink that gets on everyone.

#3 is ultimately what apple wants to avoid. A bunch of apps written on some third party abstraction layers that ALL break when apple does an update (apple can't QA everything). Then people think the iPhone/Pad suck... not the hidden abstraction layer.

And like it or not they are now at least being consistent about it. No abstaction layers for anyone!