Alright, more trolling and lies. Lets begin the fun.

Wow, you picked and chose random, and sometimes partial sentences, and decided to try to make them something they weren't. Such a bad little troll you are node.

I did say OSX about not being open, on hardware (why I mentioned installing it on non-Apple hardware.) Never mentioned a word about OSX as a software. That was youj and your trolling lies.

I did say "As for Darwin and Webkit, those were made by other people, Apple just bought them out." I didn't say they weren't closed or locked down or walled gardened, ect... I said they were bought out by Apple. Am I wrong? Is Darwin not made from the Mach kernal made by the Carnegie Mellon University? And was Webkit not made by KDE?

I did say "I do, I also know that slavery isn't freedom regardless of what Steve Jobs says about the locked down walled garden." Hmmm... I don't see me saying "OSX is the locked down walled garden" you added that, I was speaking about iOS and iOS's products. If you had read my first comment that started all this I said that Apple is "a company well noted for being the most closed in technology." Now, technology means more then one type of technology. It means things like hardware (Apple hardware) and other things like software (iOS). Now these 2 different types of technology can be owned/controlled by the same company. Now if you wanted to wedge what I had hinted at as being something it obviously wasn't, then that is your choice.

I do understand that those are software. Don't you understand that the comment you are referring to had been talking about Apple's locked down hardware and hardware isn't software?

No it wasn't. It had nothing to do with what I had been saying about OSX. It was a nudge towards iOS (remember this whole topic was about Apple's technology and thats why even when I started listing Apple products, there were both hardware and software). You just want it to be OSX I said that about, and your desperate for it to have been that you've twisted the truth and lied in every comment you've made to me in hopes that it could somehow change the past and what I've said so it might one day be that I might have said that. But I never did.

No, you didn't make them up, you twisted them up. Turned them into lies. Why? Because its all you seem to understand, and thats why I keep pointing out your a troll. Because you've lied in every thing you've said and twisted the truth so much that its hard to see where this had started from.

Wow, you are too much fun. So... lets start.

Ok, lets take your words here. Macs are cheaper then Dells. Lets see this with the facts and not your words (I'll be using Alienware since it is Dell and is more easy to mix and match parts to the Mac version, you can even see the link here): Now, here is the starting point of an Alienware M17x (they don't make 15 inch models, just 14 and 17 now, which would leave me comparing to either a 13 inch or 15 inch MBP which isn't fair, so both are 17 inch models). I will also not be upgrading the Mac since the last time I did this with you, you declared it wasn't fair since Apple does have high upgrade fees. These are also BOTH customization sites so to compare you will have to follow the specs I'm listing and not alter them beyond what I'm listing or the answers will be different

Alienware

CPU: Intel® Coreâ i7 2720QM 2.2GHz

RAM: 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz (2DIMMS)

Graphic card: 1GB GDDR5 AMD Radeonâ HD 6870M

HD: 750GB 7,200RPM HDD

Screen: 17.3-inch WideFHD 1920 x 1080 60Hz WLED

Wireless card: Wireless 802.11 g/n

Optical drive: Slot-Load Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD+-RW, CD-RW) (can't tell speed)

Price: $1,899.00

This is were I am selection the MBP 17inch model.

CPU: 2.2GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7

RAM: 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2X2GB

Graphics card: AMD Radeon HD 6750M with 1GB GDDR5

HD: 750GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 RPM

Screen: MacBook Pro 17-inch Hi-Resolution Glossy Widescreen Display (1920x1200)

Wireless card: Sorry, couldn't spot it so won't use it to compare at the end.

Optical drive: SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Price:$2,499.00

Both have backlit keyboards and free engravings (I'm pretty sure the Mac does at least11)

Now, in the end, for the most part they are about as even as I could make them (with a small amount of issues, the Dell has a better graphics card, the MBP has a higher screen pixel count). Price difference is $600. And it was you who pointed out the Dell would be more then the Apple. This was your choice. I'm just showing the fact. I could go through all the different model and will always have these kinds of differences. But if you wish, please prove me wrong while trying to keep the comparisons fair, I did by making sure to keep the MBP non-upgraded and altered the Dell configuration to the MBP's level as evenly and fairly as I could. See if you can do it, I'm not dismissing anything you'll show me if it's done in a fair manor. (unlike the last time I gave you mostly this exact comparison where you altered the Dell to have an i3 and lowered everything you possibly could and then upped the MBP settings to make it seem like price wasn't a good comparison since your new models didn't match hardware wise).

p>Bluntly put, I'm not going to dig through my posts to re-show you that. If you've chosen to forget it then thats your issue (I've also noticed you like for me to always find the links, how about you start showing a link and some facts, something I keep calling you on and you have yet to EVER do. As for odds of a Mac being pwned? If history at the Pwn2Own shows right, about 30 seconds to do it. Charles Miller has shown this time and time again and has even pointed out OSX isn't as secure as Windows (and he's a OSX user, so he isn't biased).

I mentioned Mac OS X running on open hardware, never anything about OS X not being open software. That is what you wanted to reply to but it wasn't there to reply to. I keep pointing this out to you and even quoting it. If you still are having issues figuring this out, then there isn't anything I can do for you.

Seems I might have been mistake about malware on the iOS store. But that has been the only time I mentioned it. Before I pointed out things like the sms of death (and that is what you even quoted). So, if this is the first and only time I've said this mistake, why are you having to keep repeating it? This in fact would have to be the first and only possible time you would have been able to mention it.

Thats what the SMS of death did. Thats why I pointed it out. It didn't just put up some sign on the home screen saying "I was hit by the sms of death."

Well, I've provided some useful information that you argeed with (Android having more freedom) and now I've added links to disprove your "Apple is cheaper hardware" on top of that. The ball is in your court.

ROFL. Wow, that was me quoting you, not me saying it. Again, your twisting the truth and facts to match your "mind-virus" views. I acknowledged nothing. In fact I argued this exact statement of yours with "Wow, again you've contradicted yourself. Your last sentence was "And I've already explained how iOS provides SIGNIFICANTLY more freedom for most people" and now suddenly you're stating that android has more freedom. Your answers change so fast...." Granted to that you wrote:

Let me quote to you your EXACT words (cut and pasted): "o, he addressed what you wrote quite well. But I'll go even further: iOS, the "locked down, walled garden" that it is, is SIGNIFICANTLY more free for most people than something like Android or Linux in general. What good is the small bit of additional "freedom" to people who can't benefit from it? That's the problem with fanatics, they only see things in black and white, and only from their point of view (which is why they can pretend grey doesn't exist). " Hmmm... I don't see this phrasing of "iOS offers more USABLE freedom to most people.". In fact, its the first time you've mentioned it. Again, you've changed your answer in hopes I wouldn't notice. But you see, this is a message board that you can't change what you wrote. I can see what you've said and so can anyone else. You haven't at any point said a word about iOS being "more useable freedom". As for Android providing more freedom that most people can't use, explain this. I have an Android phone, and I don't have the walled garden, the market isn't killed when Google offers a service (like the ebooks I mentioned to you). I'm sure if you, as you so 'politely' said it to me "You constantly only accept facts that support your preconceptions, and dismiss those that don't." you'll figure something out, but all in all, its just you only accepting facts that support your preconceptions and only those.

I'm to guess this was to be meant to be taken with your twisted version of history where in the beginning you said "useable" but never did, right? Both can't be more free then the other, it's one OR the other.

As for not always replying to my posts, I know why. Facts and truth were to hard for you to lie your way through. I've caught so many of them and keep laying them bare for you, in fact your starting to trip over them in your panic of lying more and more.

Your right, OSX not running on open hardware (as in non-Apple hardware). Nothing about software (like I pointed out to you.)

Again,OSX running open... on hardware. Again, like I pointed out to you (and still nothing about the software...)

But its not a red herring. I've been talking about open hardware, and you've turned it into open software which had nothing to do with anything I had been talking about. I was showing you how your comments would have been valid with that example.

Aww.... again you read only what you want. I pointed out that Darwin and Webkit were bought buy Apple, I didn't say anything about open source, you did. Here, let me quote my exact words from my post "As for Darwin and Webkit, those were made by other people, Apple just bought them out." Hmmm.... no, no, nope. Nothing about open source there... just pointing out that its not made by Apple (being its hard to offer them as your own when in reality you bought someone elses work out).

*sits down* This fun, I'm starting to enjoy pointing out your faults in every message and how you've twisted what I say. Please, do some more.

Oh node, how I love your trolling. Seriously, like those others posts your trolling of mine, you're taking one small part and twisting it beyond what it was. *sigh* That is the true mind-virus, the inability to see things clearly and twist them to something they aren't just to cause a scene. After reading all your posts, I've just lost the ability to take you serious. Your so quick to alter the fact and insult people. Is this how you act in real life? If so, you are a sad, sad little boy at the end of the day.

Honestly, lets just take one small look at your joke of a reply. I said hardware and you're knee-jerk reaction was to quickly alter the facts and twist it into a psuedo-argument about OSX's software. I never said a single thing about the software, at least not until you brought it up, Don't you see? Its your "mind-virus" that has caused this whole argument. You've refused to see anything but black and white, friend or foe. If I had mentioned in any of these posts "OSX is a locked down, walled garden OS that doesn't allow any freedom" then sure, I would be wrong and these comments would be fair and expected. But I didn't say that, I said nothing remotely like it. In fact, it had been an argument about the hardware and what did Apple code. It has nothing to do with Open Source, it never did at any point. But you wanted it to be, and your posts show that.

Well, I've already pointed out many issues with you before in he past, from Mac hardware prices being higher then other companies (which you tried to twist on me), to not long ago showing you that Mac isn't the most secure OS out there (which you demanded had to be regardless that I had your word against the word of professionals), to this topic where I mentioned about hardware and you've decided that instead of staying remotely on topic you'll derail it into OSX's software. But hey, keep sitting there, I know you'll twist this some more to make yourself feel better

How can they do more with iOS then Android and linux? You keep saying that it is, but then refuse to point to a single example. How can people do more with iOS then Android or Linux? Then you point out that it there is more freedom on Android and Linux but that no one benefits from it (again, how?). And you end up childish insulting me (again...) Wow...

There has been malware on iOS, go look it up. And again, I pointed out that there had been people hacked on the Apple forums but again you ignored that fact because your blind to it. I give you fact, I point out where to find it yourself, but still you refused to see it. That is why I pointed out pot meet kettle, because you defined yourself to the letter.

*sigh...* Again, you ignored the facts. GO LOOK UP THE ARTICLE AGAIN. It wasn't just one app, it was many, the article pointed it out, but as always, facts just get in your way so you ignore them. And I'm not making things up, just because you refuse to look and/or acknowledge them doesn't make them any less real.

Look up, read again. If you come back to this same answer, repeat the steps again. And you have yet to prove a single way iOS provides any more freedom. All you have given me is your word that it somehow does. Yet no way to show/say it. I was able to show/say otherwise granted.

Wow, again you've contradicted yourself. Your last sentence was "And I've already explained how iOS provides SIGNIFICANTLY more freedom for most people" and now suddenly you're stating that android has more freedom. Your answers change so fast....

Me: OSX isn't open on the hardware level, show me the hardware it runs on openly. (haven't said anything about the software level, like programs and such)

Do you understand what your talking about? You've twisted what I was talking about just so you could go on some rant, for what? To make yourself feel better? Your the one who turned this into an difference between iOS and OSX's software openness. All I pointed out was about that hardware, the HARDWARE. But you in your blind fanaticism wanted to turn this into something completely different. Someone made a comment about freedom and anarachy, nothing about OSX's software, nothing about what you tried to derail this whole subject into. I then mentioned the walled garden in response to the AC's comment about freedom. I haven't said anything about OSX's software freedom, that was something you made up. Get your head out of your ass.

I've seen those stickers on random things from store computers, hand dryers, store windows, ect... they aren't the owners of those items and thats the type of people I meant (mostly about store property/computers and its typically done by the workers themselves)

Pot, meet kettle. How is this locked garden more free for people? It has caused a lack of options to choose different programs as Apple has killed just about any competition in its dealing (look about about the small ebook publishers). It hasn't made the iOS any safer, in fact it made it hazardous (look about the sms of death and how it was left open for 2 days and couldn't be fixed BECAUSE of iOS's locked down nature. And don't say it wasn't a real issue, because if you look on Apples forums there complaints for those 2 days of many iPhones suddenly dying and needed to be restored from iTunes, most likely many of them being because the people using them didn't know about the sms of death bug.) And before you try saying that Android is a problem because it's had pirated programs sold on it, remember, that problem was first (and still is a problem) on the Apple App Stores (good look up about the Laguru game and how it took over a week to be removed and they mentioned it wasn't the only game, it was only the one they were highlighting.) How has this been "more freedom" for people? Seriously, how? Granted I don't expect an answer from you because the last time I called you out on your hypocrisy and cornered you with facts you cowarded out and claimed to not read the message.

Did you already forget we were talking about Apple products, an OSX was only one example? Did I say at any point of that comment anything about OSX to single it out? Or did you mentally add it just to make this comment to me?

The wall they screwed it on looks like one of the particle boards used to hide what they are doing and not the final part of the wall

*sigh* I said nothing about the consumers of the products or services, I said about Steve Jobs and his comments about the walled garden being the safest option. Instead of reading what I wrote, you have quickly tried to twist my words and shown yourself to be completely ignorant of anything that I posted. User choice had nothing in what I said. Now please leave little troll, the adult are talking.

I do, I also know that slavery isn't freedom regardless of what Steve Jobs says about the locked down walled garden.

OSX is open you say? Tell me when I can install it on any hardware of my choice without needing a lot of cracks/"patches", until then its not open but very, very closed and locked. As for Darwin and Webkit, those were made by other people, Apple just bought them out. Not quite the same as making it yourself.

See? It really is hard teaching f**kin' punctuation...

I doubt MS paid a cent for this. Its like when people put those Apple stickers they get in an iPod/Phone on things. Its not done because Apple paid them to do it. In fact, these people may very well have done this in a counter-culture-ish move of those Apple stickers. Or it could have been some people doing something randomish like a flash mob, or even Apple-haters.