Well, as I've stated above, the problem is selling them. The kind of people who buy their cars aren't buying the arguments about electrics, it doesn't matter if they're right or wrong. They're the ones with the money.

If Mercedes became convinced tomorrow that they could sell more EVs than dino drinkers, that's the direction they'd head. If they can make balls-out concept EVs, then they can make an actual car.

I just (yesterday) found a module with a bright sticker that says PROTOTYPEN in the E-Box of my A8... egads!

But most of them in fact are in that situation. If you want to make no real sysadmin comments, I may well agree, but it doesn't change much.

I don't find it to be ugly, it just looks like another car to me. If you compare it only to the insipid selection of blandmobiles that we get here in the USA, I suppose it looks a little fruity. However, it is definitely better kitted than a base econobox. You can get all the same features on your shitpile, but it will cost more than 10k.

Actually, a lot of people buy an S Class (or the equivalent Audi, a well-kitted A8L) and then put many, many miles on them. It's not a coincidence that there's a bunch of 80's S-Classes with over 300k on them, and 90's S-Classes and A8s with over 200k. These are being driven by businessmen who will be able to write off much of the significant recurring expense of putting many miles on a german car.

In short, these cars are not made worth a fuck. They use components guaranteed to degrade when components which would hold up just fine are available. Rubber bushings (not sure of the material) and EPDM vac hoses when they could be made of polyurethane and silicone respectively and last the life of the vehicle. And everything is crammed into as small a space as possible, because that's how it is today. I have big fat meaty hands, a lot of these cars require me to take some stuff off so that I can take some other stuff off before I can get at a third thing. Even if you have a lift you're best off removing the engine in many cases because you still can't get access otherwise. But sadly, they don't have an engine harness, so you have to disconnect forty things to pull the motor. Perhaps literally; just the coil packs and injectors account for sixteen connectors on a V8.

S-Class and similar are for people with lots of money, and/or people who are playing games with taxes. Not for the plebes. You can own one only if you are a mechanic. The saying is that there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes. The same applies to VAG cars. You can't afford to own an old Audi if you don't turn your own wrenches.

For the money that Mercedes will cost you over its lifetime with major mechanical failures, nickel-and-diming you with electrical problems, et cetera, you could buy a Model S for the weekdays, and a used roadster for the weekend.

I suppose you could also buy a land rover or range rover to go next to the Mercedes. I see that a lot. If you get really lucky they won't both shit themselves at once.

All the automakers are working on making EVs, including Mercedes. But they have to sell more cars, and they have to make their customers feel good about the money they've already spent. What do you expect they to say when they produce a bunch of petrosuckers?

In my country, you may or may not actually be able to even get three phase in the city. But you can get it in the country... where EVs don't work for most people yet, due to range issues.

Actually, where I live I could almost use a GEM car for trips to the store. It's hard to justify spending 5k on a discontinued deathtrap and then another 5k+ on battery upgrades, though

The best way is probably battery-swapping. Right now battery tech is moving too quickly for it to make sense to come up with a cross-platform standard for batteries. But when that happens, I suspect that EV battery ownership will largely be a thing of the past, and that the majority of EV owners will join a battery co-op.

You don't need this if you have quick charge/swap. And even if you had it, you would need significant charging and infrastructure improvements to make use of it. "Normal" cars generally have less than 400 miles of range, so if you can solve the charging problem you've solved the whole problem.

I think you will find that batteries are still required.

Subaru built a prototype where they replaced the torque converter between the engine and a tiptronic slushbox with an electric motor. Because the engine is not run by fluid, it's much more responsive and basically eliminates the problems with a slushbox, and it also provides motive starting force and performs regenerative braking for all four wheels. Presumably they'll need to use 2-way limited slip in all differentials for that to work properly. The Germans seem to have largely gone to using Torsen differentials (which are generally two-way) and solving their problems with ABS. Sadly, the ABS modules are made by Bosch...

You're both having a silly argument. Clearly it's a Mercedes. It's not a production Mercedes. That's a more interesting argument in this case anyway.

I bought a used, formerly $70k Audi A8Q. Leaking from every pore. If you don't wrench you can't own an old German car, it will fucking rob you blind. This ain't cheap as it is, but it's a shitpot more car than I could get from a stealership for the same money.

I have the full service history (with receipts) for this car. It has had practically everything done, down to a new transmission. Had a timing belt 50k ago but the coolant wasn't properly maintained so the water pump failed, so I just did one of those.

Basically, german cars have been unreliable as shit since the 1990s, when they went full-balls-electronic. Before that, they really really cared. Features like snap-together connectors with soldered-on pins, that you could order separately and cheaply (packets of pins, individual connector shells) and easily replace in the workshop. Now you need a $2k kit to service all the different snap-together connectors. Instead of putting the connectors someplace sensible and protected, now they're just all waterproof connectors. So when you get some kind of fluid leak other than coolant, now you get a terrible mess that you get to clean up with about four different solvents.

If you're not wealthy or a mechanic you can't afford to own a German car.

And the need to do that for everybody just doesn't exist, because everyone can't just go out and buy an EV tomorrow anyway.

Do you have any other irrelevancies to point out about EVs to justify [y]our petro-burning lifestyle?

Obviously, I don't drive an EV. I live in the boonies, it wouldn't work for me. But I would, if it would, and I had the cheese.

It seems to me that the only place the Leaf is actually embarrassing is the range. It doesn't have as much as a fully-kitted Model S and you can't get as much for love nor money. But otherwise, it seems a perfectly adequate car in a way that the original Prius wasn't. I have no opinion on the new Prius, which at least looks as boring as it is.

All the people I know personally who claim to be libertarian are pro-choice, pro-drug, pro-porn, against federal government being involved in sex education At all, against special status for churches, and pro-assisted-suicide.

I, mind you, am not a libertarian. I'm far too socialist for that. But I agree with them on many principles of freedom. Where we part company is that I want business to be heavily regulated. Businesses are legal fictions to begin with, otherwise they are simply groups of people.

Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to look like a dumbshit on Slashdot. Quick quiz, how did Saddam Hussein come to power in the first place?