Ok that sounds like a reasonable project. When will start work on that? Or are you just complaining from the sidelines?

Yes yes yes we know. UX people are teh suck. Everyone's been saying so for months, so it much be the truth.

But noone is forcing you to use Gnome 3. If you don't like it, don't. STFU and use Mate, Cinnamon, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, fvwm or whatever the hell you want to use. Support them. Contribute. File bugs. Fix bugs. But don't sit here whining about a project you don't use. Use something else and get on with it.

Also why not have a little class? Gnome 3 isn't to your taste? Oh well never mind. But some people have done a lot of work on it, some of it very good work. So when they do a release - why do you have to dump on it? This is free software - offered to you gratis, by comitted free sofware developers. It doesn't have to be your choice, but at least have the manners to acknowlege their work.

Yup - it's not SystemD's fault for solving this problem first.

I personally would be very happy to see the problem solved in OpenRC, SysV, Upstart and all the rest - if they can make it happen, that is. I just wish a fraction of the effort that goes into systemd whining and bitching around here could go into participating in a distro, or contributing to one of these init systems.

Oh wait no - these people don't help anything they just complain.

Before you go round acting like the sky is falling, try educating yourselves about why this is necessary. This is not just a systemd problem, this is a problem for any init system that wants to support multi-seat, and sane switching between VTs:

• How VT-switching works
• Sane Session Switching
• Thoughts on Linux System Compositors
• Session-Management on Linux

Now you may say that OMG systemd is teh evil monolith!!1!!!, but before you do that understand that this has been an important feature that has been needed for a long time in any init system it just happened that SystemD solved it first.

What makes you think I'm one of these guys? I have nothing to do with them. I don't even run Gnome 3 right now.

It's the polarised, non-technical, non-contributing circle-jerk that this whole conversation has become.

Some people here think there is a problem - one so bad that it fills them with anger. So being geeks you'd think they'd scramble to construct technical solutions. But noooooo... that would be far to useful. No instead they spend the whole time carping on web-forums.

Look - if you think there's a problem in the world, then the solution starts with you. Not the people over there in OSS project that you don't contribute to, or running the distribution you don't help with - it starts with you.

That's why I respect Mate, Cinnamon, LXDE, Xfce and Gnome3 folks. They're doing each doing good work - not all of it to my taste, but I respect the achievements. But I will never respect the spoutings of the giant crowd of trolls that now gather around this issue.

• - Gnome3 sucks forever, permanently always.
• - Lennart is making an evil conspiricy to force me to use systemd.
• - systemd is teh suck send to destroy beautiful SysV init - which is the true embodyment of perfection and any faults mentioned about it are by no-nothing windows script kiddies and mac wannabies.
• - Ditto PulseAudio - except not so much now? now we quite like it because I can turn the volume up and down without it making a clicking sound.
• - They're turning my precious Linux into Windowz!
• - I'm leaving for the BSDs - don't try to stop me.
• - wayland is teh suxxors because I can't run xeyes over a network any more. These people don't understand X! - wait what? it's by X developers? No way.

Look slashdot: If you don't like something stop being whiny luddite bitches and fix it. That's what open source is about.

And while you're at it stop trashing good work that's going on in other projects - even if you don't agree with the direction it's going in.

Note that this is not yet Greenwald's "Fireworks show" - his promised grand finale was delayed from 4th July. From what I've gleaned, there will be a big-bang scoop naming specific names of US citizens - major public and political figures - who were wiretapped by the NSA. USG has claimed there will be some harm done, so the story has been delayed while the journalist team investigate.

Stay tuned. I can't wait.

Take a look at the sigrok project. We have rather a lot of experience with low cost lab gear.

For a long time the best option for a standalone scope has been the Das Oszi scopes, sold under the brand names Hantek, Protek and Voltcraft. As a bonus, a guy name tinhead has reverse engineered the schematics. Hopefully we'll have it supported in sigrok very soon.

There's also the SmartScope for ~$180.

What science defines that an 1-year old is a person, but a zygote is not? Please. Link me a paper.

I'm a science enthusiast, but far too many science enthusiasts here try and make science speak on issues that it doesn't speak. Science is totally silent - it's work unrelated to these philosophical questions. The question of what make a person is purely philosophical. So if you try and make Science speak on questions of justice, personhood, ethics, it will respond with silence, silence, silence. The only way to respond to these questions is with a philosophical worldview, such as your philosophy of "Materialism", but don't conflate this philosophy together with scientific research - they are not the same thing.

Quite so. It's sheer recklessness not to err on the side of caution here.