A scientific calculator!

Radiation vs Radionuclide.

Yep, you're right, thanks for pointing that out about the destination of the micro nutrient.

The issue is the radio-isotope's journey through a body if it is a analogue of a micronutrient that body uses. Tritium it is mutagenic to DNA at 0.018590 MeV for beta emissions and Caesium-137 is a beta and gamma emitter at 1.176 MeV so it is much more energetic. C137 gets organically bound and that increases the decay rate into the tissue, it doesn't seem to be used in medicine so I would prefer not to have a gamma emitter floating around inside me as it decays, whatever it gets attached to for 30 odd years.

However, whilst I think the risk of direct exposure to C137 is low, it is in the food chain and it has its own way that it bio-accumulates for 30yrs*20 decay cycles, around 1400 years, not as much as some other radioisotopes but longer than anyone living today.

Many of these products decay in geological timeframes so the amount of time they are toxic in the foodchain is a serious concern. US coast is protected by those deep currents washing the cold deep water. To test for and to identify other radio-isotopes you would need a proper government effort, perhaps international effort to determine exactly which radioactive products of Fukushima have contaminated the Pacific Ocean and the quantities it will continue to pour into the pacific ocean.

All we know right now is, they weren't there before, they are now and that it only took a couple of years to get across the Pacific. This will continue to unfold for many many years.

There is no safe level of ignorance either.

You are incorrect. Small doses are highly toxic because the meabolism transports them to sites around the body where they continue to emit radiation and gestate cancer. Oppenheimer's own research found pu-239 to be fatal at 1-10 micrograms, toxic as an inhalant or when ingested. So your statement contradicts even the 50 year old science.

As for energetic levels, and depending on the radio-isotope analogue, if they are beyond a certain level they are cancerous, if they are below a certain level they are mutagenic to the DNA and cause transgenic disease. So, no, there is NO safe level of exposure just whether you or your progeny experiences the consequences.

As for your "comparison to many things that we do in everyday life that we consider safe", any risk of exposure is measured against the severity of consequences. An argument like that presupposes that you have control over your exposure to the risk, which you don't have with radio-isotope exposure in the foodchain. The difference with Fukushima is that the risk is being increased e.v.e.r.y.d.a.y and no-one has any control over that exposure anymore.

This leads to the fundamental point missed in this argument. WHOI, with a small budget detected C137 of the coast of the US with just 50 samples from the pacific ocean. No government funding, one boat and a small group of dedicated scientists. Should we just assume that the rest of the ocean is hunky dory and "just the bits they were checking" happened to have radioceasium in it?

That is why there is no safe level of ignorance.

For example pu-239 whose halflife is 25,000 years and is fatal to humans in the 1-10 microgram range.

That's a rapid decay rate when compared to other radio-isotopes, sr-90 is a 600 year half life which is quite rapid when compared to pu-239, who's halflife is 25,000 years. The issue here is not the radio-isotopes decay rate compared to a human lifespan, it's the decay rate compared to other radio-isotopes.

The energetic levels of a radio-isotope's alpha, beta and gamma emissions differ. Your scenario would just mean you are holding a different radio-isotope. What it wouldn't take into account is the toxicity of it or the radio-isotopes that have a longer decay rate.

Furthermore you are looking at n years * 20 iterations (where n is the half-life) of daughter products, meaning a "short-lived" radio-isotope, like C137 will take 600 years to become benign, 12000 years for sr-90 and half a billion years for pu-239. So, yeah, 30 years is a short half-life.

All of which is effectively forever for human beings.

Statement of fact.

Loosely related association.

So your contention that there is "no safe minimum dose once it is in your body" is clearly wrong. Everyone who has ever lived has been exposed to a relative "huge" amount of radiation from K-40 throughout their entire lives, and our species is still here.

Strawman argument.

Your comment describes the process all micro-nutrient analogues undergo as a radioisotope, exactly what mrflash818 stated. Your reply is a strawman because you attempt to say that C137 as an emitter is no more dangerous than potassium which is clearly false. C137's relatively short half life means it is highly energetic and when it is ingested at a sufficient dose in a human will trigger thyroid cancer.

This should be modded UP to informative.

I am trying to understand why this perfectly reasonable informative comment, with a link provided, that accurately describes *exactly* what caesium 137 does when ingested has been modded down to -1.

This is a perfect example of mod trolls at work.

Boring conversation anyway.

Was that Seaman Stain?

I automate every task I find mundane. Boring tasks means I am not thinking and if I am not thinking that means I am not learning. If I am not learning I am stagnating. Automating stuff *is* hard work because it forces you to learn. Learning other peoples automations means I don't have to solve those problems.

Automating stuff means I am more effective and I have more time to write /. comments and this is good because sometimes solving hard problems means I should just chill for a while, while the automation does the work. Automation doesn't make me less capable, but it does mean that I have 3 times the output of anyone else around me, making me more relaxed and generally easier going while people wonder how I do it.

Automation makes me smart lazy and achieving that is hard work.

Seriously, I wish these police services would just stop whining and get on with their jobs. Frankly this is just another excuse to be lazy, they have plenty of powers under the law to demand warrants to uncover who people are. It is insulting for police to take this attitude that they don't have enough powers or are somehow impeded in performing their duties. I have a simple message:

Get back to work.

I remember when Mitnick was held in jail for 5 years by the FBI without a charge and that they were so scared of the guy they refused him a phone call because they believed he would be able to call in a nuclear bomb strike.

I read his book, "The Art of Deception" - an excellent read, yet despite all his recommendations we see all of the holes still present for the modern intelligencia to take advantage of. Kevin was to be the poster boy for 21st Century human rights abuse and the FBI didn't care how many bumper stickers people bought.

nope , you said that. just after you missed the point

you are the one spreading lies about vegans , that is forcing your beliefs on others.

I pointed out your are wrong and suggested you change , thats not forcing my beliefs on others.

maybe if you ate less meat you might less agressive and defensive , i've heard it does that to people.