First Looks at The Gimp 2.5

desmondhaynes writes "The GIMP team announced today the first release from the 2.5 development series. It is true that this version is unstable, but a little bird told me to give it a try and see what's it capable of. First of all, let me tell you that its interface is quite redesigned and I think that some users will have problems adjusting with it, but that's just my two cents. On the other hand, version 2.5.0 of The GIMP includes some hot new features, like the integration of GEGL (Generic Graphics Library) which will finally get support for higher color depths, more colorspaces and eventually non-destructive editing."

Have they changed the name yet?

[Eevee (535658)]

I realize that marketing has nothing to do with the features or performance of a program. But it does have a factor in acceptance at work. There's no way I'm going in front of our Engineering Review Board for a product called "The Gimp", no matter how much money it's going to save.

Re:Have they changed the name yet?

[Rob T Firefly (844560)]

So call it the "GNU Image Manipulation Program" around your bosses.

Re:Have they changed the name yet?

[owlnation (858981)]

Yep, that's exactly right. It's easy to sell Firefox because that's a name that sounds exciting. People want to know what Firefox is just based on the name. Shallow, sure -- but welcome to Earth.

A product named GIMP ain't going nowhere -- face it. Not even if it were a good substitute for its competition, which it still very much is not. While changing the name won't improve the utility of the product, at least it will encourage more people to use it -- and thus maybe develop for it too.

Re:Have they changed the name yet?

[domatic (1128127)]

Allow me to humbly advance some ideas:

Professional Image Manipulation Program
Simple Image Manipulation Program
Lightmap Image Manipulation Program
Windowed Image Manipulation Program

You *know* it hasn't noticeably improved when...

[by Anonymous Coward]

...the very first item in the list of "noteworthy" improvements is a new splash screen. :'(

Re:You *know* it hasn't noticeably improved when..

[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

Yep. My first thought exactly. You know the guy doing the writeup/review really has no clue about the GIMP's shortcomings when he touts a new splashscreen as an exciting improvement.

Re:You *know* it hasn't noticeably improved when..

[Coryoth (254751)]

...the very first item in the list of "noteworthy" improvements is a new splash screen. :'(

It's a development release. The odd numbered releases (2.1, 2.3, 2.5) are all unstable development releases when new features are integrated in. Usually there are around 20 such development releases (i.e., we got to around 2.3.20 before 2.4 was finally released). In this case we have 2.5.0 -- the very first development release, with just the beginnings to structural changes to integrate new functionality. In this case that means enough behind the scenes work to get GEGL working, and the beginnings of an apparent UI overhaul. Expect another 20 or so releases each adding more improvements before you get the next stable release: 2.6.0.

Appauling

[Stuidge (1104439)]

This is a word for word, picture for picture copy of the original at Softpedia [softpedia.com] (I'm guessing, as the Softpedia article was posted 4 days earlier). The article linked is full of adverts as well. You would be better off reading the offical GIMP release notes [gimp.org].

Re:Appauling

[Eil (82413)]

Yup, Slashdot links to yet another plagiarism blog.

1. Find interesting tech story
2. Copy pasta
3. Insert ads
4. Send to Slashdot/Digg
5. Profit!

Malware

[pelago (957767)]

Hmm, I'm getting malware popups from 'trustedbrowser.com' from the site in TFA.

Single window, please?

[MMC Monster (602931)]

Forget changing the name. In the list of requests for 2.8, the number one request is a single window model.

This is likely the number one request for s number of years, yet we have to wait until 2.8 to even see if it will happen?

The Gimp is a nice tool, but it really should listen to it's users.

Solen content!!!

[theempire (1272824)]

Dear Slashdot admin, be aware that the current article (http://techrunch.blogspot.com/2008/04/first-look-gimp-250.html) was completely stolen from Softpedia (http://news.softpedia.com/news/First-Look-The-GIMP-2-5-0-83090.shtml) which was posted, as Stuidge said above, 4 days ago....

Excited about GEGL

[radarsat1 (786772)]

Yes, this is great. Forget the bad / stolen / whatever review, a look at the product..

I've been looking forward to them integrating GEGL for some time now, and it looks like they've finally done it. This is going to be the single best thing to happen to open-source image manipulation in a long time.

GEGL will take care of almost all the current complaints from image professionals related to image bit depths, printing features, etc. It'll make layering effects much easier to apply and it makes everything related to image manipulation completely modular.

Also, think about how REALLY nice it is that the image manipulations routines are now librarified (is that a word?)... It means that we'll likely see other new applications pop up here and there taking advantage of this nicely-designed back-end. So don't worry about the lack of changes to the GUI, this will come in time, and even the GUI-related complaints (though I don't understand them) will likely be eventually moot.

I think it's great that they've finally achieved this long sought-after goal of redesigning the GIMP back-end and integrating it into the application. We should all be very excited about this! I use the GIMP all the time for my (non-professional) needs, and it's an amazing piece of software.

Re:Yay New Features

[by Anonymous Coward]

You forgot "no interface elements that aren't batshit insane."

Re:Yay New Features

[Coryoth (254751)]

You forgot "no interface elements that aren't batshit insane."

I'm curious; can you tell me some interface elements that are batshit insane, and explain why they are insane? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to admit that GIMP has some interface quirks and problems around and about. Personally, however, I've found most things to work reasonably well, and, more importantly, to be steadily improving (the dockable palettes that showed up in 2.0 or so, and the Image Window + Tools Window shown in TFA for 2.5, etc.). That leaves me honestly curious as to what leads one to the point of view that apparently all the interface elements are insane -- so please: can you explain some of the things that bug you so much about the interface?

Re:Yay New Features

[krazytekn0 (1069802)]

But they aren't the same interface elements as Photshop! So they're terrible!!! </sarcasm>

Re:Yay New Features

[by Anonymous Coward]

This is why the GIMP will never be popular. Despite its lack of popularity and the overwhelming number of complaints about the user interface, the developers, and the few existing supporters, continuously rely on the excuse that users are merely familiar and conditioned to the Photoshop user interface.

Of course, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the GIMP's user interface was haphazardly thrown together by programmers with absolutely no concern for HCI. Photoshop's interface couldn't possibly be better despite the thousands of hours of research and user interface testing that Adobe has put into it. Nope, absolutely none of that matters!

Keep blaming people's familiarity with Photoshop and you'll be sure to continue the GIMPs long standing tradition of complete and utter failure.

Re:Yay New Features

[MobyDisk (75490)]

The problem with GIMP is that the interface is so far gone, so weird, so bizarre, so non-standard - that it is really tough for anybody to sanely explain what's wrong with it. It's just so darn self evident.

Having not used it in 2 years, I'll try:
1) The multiple windows thing
I think this is the most often cited issue so I will list it first. GIMP opens multiple top-level windows which means that normal shortcuts and window navigation doesn't work. (Alt-tab on Windows -- apple-tab on Macs, etc.) The only way to use GIMP is to have multiple virtual desktops, which not everyone likes. The barrage of windows clutters the interface, and windows move around a lot because when you select new tools they resize or change. You can see through to the desktop which is distracting. I know at least on the Windows version, the keys that hide windows so you can get to your image don't really work right. Maybe my experience is skewed though because of the Windows and Mac ports. But IIRC, this same stuff happened on Linux.

This problem has garnered enough hate that there are several open-source projects that are either modifications to Photoshop, or programs that re-parent the window so that it behaves more normally. Unfortauntely, all of them are hacks and don't work super-well.

2) Unusual use of menus
- The menus are just... oddd. To a new user, the app is useless because once you open something, you get a window with no menus. After much frustration, the user monkey-clicks the mouse and realizes the menus are on the right-click instead of at the top of the window. That might not actually be a bad idea, but it is definitely counter-intuitive. Especially for "file" operations where people are used to seeing File-New/Open/Save/Save As/Close and those just aren't there.

This is not an issue for an advanced user, but it is strikingly odd to someone new, and it might force a lot of people to give-up right away.

3) Things that are NOT problems
- I'm browsing the comments and I see comments about Photoshop having an odd user-interface. I see comments that one particular tool or another doesn't work the way someone expects. I think these people are missing the point. The problems with GIMP aren't that some particular tool is not as easy to use as a Photoshop tool, or vice-versa. The problem is that nobody can even find the tool in GIMP because the overarching user-interface is so strange. Once people can get to the tool in the first place, then think about how the tool behaves.

4) Other
If you really want to know, this comes-up on Slashdot every 6 months or so. Probably some searching will come-up with obvious things I've completely forgotten over time.

Re:Yay New Features

[Coryoth (254751)]

How about this menu: http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/gimp25preview-large_009.jpg [softpedia.com] ? Doesn't seem very sane to me.

Given that that is a menu attached to an as yet very loosely integrated feature (GEGL) in a first development release... not such a great complaint. Sure, it's a terrible menu, but then it's clearly something that was slapped in to provide testers with access to GEGL's functionality. There's no way that's going to survive to 2.6 (the stable release).

Re:Yay New Features

[Ford Prefect (8777)]

You forgot "no interface elements that aren't batshit insane."

Yeah, like changing a simple right-click on a layer, then 'Alpha to selection' to 'Select', 'Load Selection...', then selecting the appropriate document and channel from no-preview combo-boxes...

The GIMP's batshit insane, but Photoshop is as loopy as a teapot. Their particular modes of madness simply aren't entirely compatible - The GIMP is definitely pretty bad in places, but for the life of me I can't figure out how Photoshop is supposed to be infinitely superior from a user interface point of view.

I must admit that I still really like The GIMP's perspective correction tool - Photoshop's got better distortion tools, but they won't run backwards. Unlike the crop tool's perspective correction, which has no handy grid-lines visible. There's the lens correction filter, but that's really fiddly. But is brilliant at removing barrel distortion from texture references - something that's a real arse in The GIMP.

Drawing tools? I really like how the hold-shift-to-draw-a-straight-line works in The GIMP. Click somewhere, undo to remove that splodge, hold shift down and it'll preview a fine line from where you clicked to the current cursor position. Click somewhere, and it'll draw a line with the current drawing tool. Hold down control-shift, and it'll lock to particular angles.

Photoshop? Click, undo to remove that splodge, ARSE! it's forgotten where I clicked. Okay ... Leave that initial splodge, hold down shift, NO FINE PREVIEW LINE!, click somewhere, oops wrong place for that line, undo, ARSE AGAIN! it's forgotten where I wanted to draw the line from!

With Photoshop, it's really easy to set up guides for your simple, shadowy lines on yer textures - but I still like The GIMP's way of doing it.

Actually, The GIMP's handling of alpha channels is a bit more sensible - right up until the point it merrily decides to discard colour information from completely transparent pixels. As part of an 'optimisation', albeit one that only gets invoked with certain operations. So it's very easy to completely destroy your texture, unless you keep to a strict, undocumented set of operations.

Photoshop's alpha handling is plain weird in places, but it's a bit more predictable...

Re:Yay New Features

[by Anonymous Coward]

With the rate of advancement in The GIMP, eventually, Photoshop enthusiasts will have nothing bad to really say about it.

You're right. It's only been 12+ years that people have been asking for those things. Now GIMP actually has an engine capable of doing them (note that it doesn't actually do them yet). It'll only be another few years until the basics are covered!

Re:First looks at gimp 2.5....

[MightyYar (622222)]

Let me start it off :)

First of all, let me tell you that its interface is quite redesigned and I think that some users will have problems adjusting with it, but that's just my two cents.

Now those users will know how the rest of us feel!

I kid... if it had 16-bit support I would use the Gimp since I don't care about CMYK.

Re:Jam Tomorrow

[tpwch (748980)]

Wrong. Finally getting higher than 8-bit depth is great news for anyone who does more than a bit of hobby work with the gimp.

To take myself as an example I take photos with a digital camera that gives me RAW files. Those are 12-bit files, which means 4096 colors per pixel rather than the 256 you get with 8 bit. Now I will be able to edit those in the gimp without loosing any quality, which means alot less posterisation when adjusting contrast and settings like that. The output image will simply look alot better, with the same tools that we already have in the gimp (assuming that the input image is of good quality of course).

Re:Jam Tomorrow

[simcop2387 (703011)]

To take myself as an example I take photos with a digital camera that gives me RAW files. Those are 12-bit files, which means 4096 colors per pixel rather than the 256 you get with 8 bit.

just to be pedantic, i doubt you're raw files are actually 12bit per pixel, its most probably 12bit per channel per pixel (and in the case of the gimp it was a maximum of 8bit per channel per pixel). this gives you 12bits * 3 channels (assuming RGB here) per pixel, so its a 2^36 colors (68,719,476,736 ) instead of 2^24 colors (16,777,216). still a dramatic change, but i just figured it'd be nice to have the complete numbers there :)

Re:Meh. Can it make circles and squares?

[caseih (160668)]

Don't you think that you were trying to use the wrong tool for the job to begin with? Gimp is an "Image Manipulation Program" first and foremost. If you are trying to create a web comic, I'd think that a vector graphics program would be you first choice of tools.

Sure Paint.NET and Photoshop blur the lines a bit, but the better tool still, in the proprietary world, would be Adobe Illustrator, or something like Inkscape in the OSS world.