Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Windows Longhorn Beta for June Release

Posted by Zonk on Tue Feb 08, 2005 06:17 PM
from the newer-shinier-and-with-horns dept.
An Anonymous Reader writes "According to CNET, the Windows Longhorn Beta 1 is supposedly set for release this June. The Register has commentary on the delays the new OS has faced." From the article: "Longhorn was originally supposed to ship in 2004. In May, this year release was pushed back to 2005. This week Longhorn's availability has been delayed even further, with Microsoft execs declining to say when exactly the operating system might ship, eWeek reports."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Credibility (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fembots (753724) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:18PM (#11612569) Homepage
    So what makes this June Release by one Microsoft executive more believable than other announcements?
    • Re:Credibility (Score:5, Informative)

      by Swamii (594522) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:24PM (#11612649) Homepage
      So what makes this June Release by one Microsoft executive more believable than other announcements?

      The 4 month beta deadline, maybe? All previous announcements have been almost a year ahead of time.
    • by Gr8Apes (679165) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:25PM (#11612652)
      I believe they'll probably release something - the time line's too short to miss it by 4 years as they've done previously. Besides, they don't want the actual release of Tiger to have the limelight by itself, now, do they?

      Heck, Cairo was announced, what? 14 years ago? Longhorn was the new Cairo, now delayed to Blackcomb, as "Cairo" wasn't getting any more press. After all, "we're writing about Cairo again?

      • Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Tackhead (54550) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:30PM (#11612717)
        > Heck, Cairo was announced, what? 14 years ago? Longhorn was the new Cairo, now delayed to Blackcomb, as "Cairo" wasn't getting any more press. After all, "we're writing about Cairo again?

        Database-driven filesystems are sorta like nuclear fusion.

        Marketing time to release is a constant in the range of 10-15 units of time. Actual time to release is the same -- but you use the next higher unit.

        That is, WinFS has been 6-12 months away for about 15 years, and fusion power has been about 5-10 years away for at least the past 5 decades.

    • Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:27PM (#11612674)
      Considering the rate Longhorn is shedding features, I don't see why it can't ship on time.

      Simply put, the shipping date approaches zero as the number of new features approaches zero.
  • June.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 1010011010 (53039) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:18PM (#11612576) Homepage
    ... to beat "Tiger" to the punch.

    • I wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by michaeldot (751590) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:40PM (#11612816)
      Does Microsoft actually care about Mac OS X at all, whether as a competitive threat or even a comparative yardstick?

      At a recent university talk, Gates claimed that the only OSes that would be around in 10 years would be Windows and Linux. Now that could simply be a snub to Jobs, or it could indicate that he doesn't even consider Mac to be on the radar anymore. With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential in both the predominantly Windows consumer market, or Windows/Linux enterprise market.

      The ironic thing is, that if Mac OS X *were* to be around in 10 years, Microsoft would likely to be making far more money off it than if it disappeared. Why? The high gross margins (80+%) from Office mean that Microsoft often makes more money from a Mac bought with Office than Apple does (the gross margin on a Mac is 20+%).

      With only Linux as an alternative OS, Microsoft would likely make nothing, unless Microsoft plans to start selling software for Linux...

      Personally I think Microsoft does actually pay attention to Apple and uses them as a sort of free R&D lab. However, publicly, Gates seems to deny they're relevant now, and not at all in the future.

      Interesting...
      • Re:I wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Leo McGarry (843676) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @07:12PM (#11613186)
        With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential

        Check your figures again, please. There's no definition of "market share," either percent-of-sales-per-unit-time or percent-of-total-installed-base, for which that statement could be true. IDC consistently puts Apple around 4%, with an installed base set to exceed 40 million units during the first half of this year. (There are rumors that IDC's next projection is going to uptick sharply on the strength of the Mac mini.)

        When you're talking about a market valued in the tens of billions, the difference between "less than 2%" and the actual figure of four percent is huge.
    • A June beta release from Microsoft may or may not beat Apple's June final release, but Tiger's punch was the beta DVDs that went to all Worldwide Developers' Conference attendees LAST summer.
  • hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FinestLittleSpace (719663) * on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:19PM (#11612579)
    I like the 'different ways of distributing throughout large corps' thing... in the way that it's basically code for "we're going to try another convoluted way of stopping corporate editions from being pirated. COUGH"
  • Hello? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:19PM (#11612587)
    What's Longhorn? Bill Gates name for his...?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:22PM (#11612624)
    If someone makes a Duke Nukem joke, I'm going to shoot myself.
  • XP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mboverload (657893) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:26PM (#11612666) Journal
    XP seems fine to me. All my utilities, programs, and games are in working order and I have never had a problem with security. Why exactly should I udgrade? The only reason I stay on Windows is for the games, and unless Micosoft has some magic optimizations it pulls out of its ass, I dont see a new operation system on here anytime soon.
    • Re:XP (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ADRA (37398) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:41PM (#11612827)
      I say the same thing, but for Windows 2000. I have yet to find a show stopper at home to upgrade to XP. I don't see myself leaving 2000 on my desktop unless its to Linux (Which is already on file server/laptop).
  • Misleading Summary (Score:5, Informative)

    by Morgahastu (522162) <bshel@WEEZERroge ... fave bands name > on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:52PM (#11612931) Journal
    The article linked to, and quoted, was published in September of 2003. There is no new delay to speak of.
  • by AlgUSF (238240) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:54PM (#11612955) Homepage
    I bet this will be the most open and secure operating system ever.
    • by Swamii (594522) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:22PM (#11612623) Homepage
      If you need some component installed, just make sure it's prereq's are there. Oh wait - this sounds a lot like Linux.

      We tried that. It was called DLL Hell.
      • by irokitt (663593) <archimandrites-iaurNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:32PM (#11612730)
        Your thought was the same as mine. Windows machines get a lot of diverse, funky software thrown on them.

        I'll withhold judgement on Longhorn until I get to play with it. Maybe the changes will be worth the money to upgrade, maybe not. Maybe the graphics will look cheesy (a la XP) and maybe not. Either way, my Slackware box will fill the balance. I think an open mind is a good thing here.

        That said, I can foresee (via the Slashdot palantir) a lot of people looking at their screens and wonering if all years of hype and buildup really just produced this. Think Doom 3 here: Yeah, it was entertaining, but it wasn't worth all the years of salivating and my $50.
          • by ajs (35943) <ajs&ajs,com> on Tuesday February 08 2005, @10:14PM (#11614873) Homepage Journal
            You seem to be making several orthoganal points. Some of them I even agree with, but to tie them together I think you'll need a bit more glue.

            First off the correct (IMHO) bits:

            Somebody who reads 1984 and thinks that he then has something insightful to say about language or society is like somebody who reads Beat to Quarters and thinks that he then can sail a tall ship around Cape Horn.

            Well, of course. I'm not sure that you're making a non-obvious point here, but ok. Of course, someone might read 1984 and then have something insightful to say about language or society... but that's no more or less likely than reading it and having something insightful to say about 20th century authors.

            No, 1984 is not "one of the most important books ever written," unless you expand your list to include tens of thousands of books

            Obviously you are just as correct as the grandparent who claimed the opposite. This is purely a matter of opinion, unless you're going to assign a quantitative definition to "most important books".

            Too many people point to 1984 as an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism

            Here you lose me. It's not that this might not be a valid statement, but you place it in the center of a response to a post which makes no such claim. Thus, this can only be catagorized as a strawman.

            However, to take up the challenge, I'll argue that 1984 is not an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism, but rather a illustration of the abstract nature of totalitarianism and the ability for the average member of such a society to lie to themselves about the choices they are making.

            Of course, we see this sort of book all the time, just not always about politics. Books about women who persist in abusive relationships, criminals who look in the mirror and see a hero, and any number of other common themes are all expressions of this. 1984 simply happens to be one example of this sub-genre where the average reader tends to "get it".

            Does 1984 beg the question of the insidiousness of totalitarianism? I don't think so. It shows us what the author thinks people are capable of, lets the readers own sense of the human condition demonstrate its truth. Most of us on reading 1984 come away a bit frightened. Not all of us realize why, but years after reading it, I realized that it was because nothing in the book was terribly difficult to imagine. People DO behave this way, and it's important for us to come to terms with that.

            Now, you can say that 1984 isn't important, but here's why I think it was: it opened up a dialog that we had with each other. Many other books have been written since -- some scholarly, some novels like 1984 -- but all further exploring this theme. Certainly philosophers had beat the idea of man's inhumanity to man around for a long time, but Orwell brought a language in which to frame the discussion to the common man, and in this I think we can rightly say that he was an important and influential author.

            By way of exmample, Asimov and Feynman didn't write the General and Specifc theories of relativity, but each of them produced clear, understandable and engaging information for people outside of the field that gave us the tools to intelligently disucss these complicated matters. This, in many ways, is just as important a step as introducing the concept to the scientific community.

            So, I'll put 1984 somewhere on that list of yours, but I suspect that I'm placing it quite a lot higher than you are.
    • Re:Shorthorn? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by nuclear305 (674185) * on Tuesday February 08 2005, @06:39PM (#11612802)
      I do agree. I'm tired of seeing less-than-spectacular releases in the Windows line. WinME? That was pointless.

      How about Longhorn being the "browserless OS?" If they hold true to that it means we'll probably be even more vulnerable to IE exploits--like hijacking our desktop background instead of just our browser homepage.

      I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't redesign their product to focus on 3 things: the kernel, the GUI, and the rest of the apps they ship with Windows.

      The one thing I love about Linux is the fact that the kernel is almost always stable. It rarely crashes. (with the exception of the use of alpha-release drivers or bad system memory) Yes, X may sprout some problems eventually but it doesn't take the whole system down.

      The other thing they need to do is stop integrating software into the OS. I can't stress this enough. I don't want to have to worry about my entire OS being vulnerable because IE has been integrated into every possible aspect of my GUI. Keep it simple, keep it segmented in modules.

      If they could ship an OS that had a rock-solid kernel, with a nice GUI shipped with it, and a few apps (IE, OE, etc) shipped as extras on the cd/dvd then I think they would finally have a worthy product on their hands.

    • by naden (206984) on Tuesday February 08 2005, @09:32PM (#11614520)
      1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.

      I call bullshit. 10 times easier to develop/faster - I think not. And managed APIs whilst they may reduce the incidents of buffer overflows will not automagically solve your security problems. The fact is .Net is great, but not that great.

      2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.

      And who are going to be buying these new 200+ DPI machines ? I surely doubt the ordinary user is going to find a need to view their word documents in super high quality. So do explain what is going to be the driver of these displays ?

      3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.

      Completely new ? And what lose the ability of their installed base to jump right in and use the system. What about the significant investments in training done by companies ? The fact is Longhorn will be 95% identical to Windows XP simply because it has to be. If it isn't and businesses have to invest serious money in retraining staff, then why not retrain them in how to use Linux/OpenOffice ?

      4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed .NET code on your machine. Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. Just think about the possibilities there.

      Whilst your thinking about the possibilities, some of us are actually implementing it. Java/Flash are already heavily used and Google is only just showing [google.com] that JS/DHTML can be used to do amazing stuff. And they all work cross-platform.

      The fact is developers can't target XAML so long as they have they have a significant number of end users that are running Windows 95/98/Linux/Mac/Firefox etc etc.

      5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.

      Web Services like CORBA is a developer's technology. Most end users won't know what web services is and why it is useful. You've been drinking the Microsoft kool-aid if you think end users are going to upgrade because of it. And Web Services works just as well on other platforms as well you know [sun.com]. Some even require little to no programming [apple.com].

      The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies. That's where the real strength of this all is. Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.

      Bzzt. Except that when Longhorn comes out your going to have a even more fragmented Windows market (95/98/XP/Longhorn). Which means that as a developer you want to use the technology that will target the most number of platforms i.e. Win32. This is a huge problem for Microsoft and is why more Longhorn technologes are being backported to XP.

      It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.

      WRONG. It is time for Linux to start making itself more and more interoperable with Windows XP. To the point where businesses will sidegrad