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+ - ask - what do you think caused the NSA to start collecting so much data?-> 13

Submitted by raymorris
raymorris (2726007) writes "Many people believe that the NSA collects far too much data, violating the privacy rights of the very citizens the NSA is supposed to protect. How did we get here? What specific structural or cultural changes can be identified that led some to believe it is okay to engage in this sort of broad dragnet surveillance as opposed to getting specific court orders for specific suspects?

Many people simply assign the blame to the opposite political party, which doesn't get very far in solving the problem and ensuring it doesn't happen again. Can we look at specific, identifiable factors and show exactly how they directly caused the intelligence community to get off track? For example, precisely which sections of which laws are being used to justify these programs, and what caused those laws to be passed? Is the surveillance directly authorized by law, or do the justifications require "creative" interpretation of the law?

In order to avoid getting into yet another fruitless political flame war and keep the discussion factually focused, please provide citations where possible."

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ask - what do you think caused the NSA to start collecting so much data?

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  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_SHAMROCK [wikipedia.org]
    As an exercise "all telegraphic data entering into or exiting from the United States"
    You also had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MINARET [wikipedia.org]
    The you saw the Parallel construction with the NSA/DEA
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering [eff.org]
    The US and UK intelligence community was never off track, they just sold the public it was all for the embassy spies, WW2, Soviet Union and then later drugs, terror.
    The only " just
    • Thanks so much for that specific, relevant, and credible information.
      It seems this stuff has been going on forever, that the spooks have always spied on the citizens to whatever extent technology allows. Occasionally, they get caught, it's a scandle, and Congress puts a stop to it for a few years. Then they start up again. I had asked "how did we get here?" The answer seems to be "we've always been here.". This latest round restarted in response to 9-11, but the same stuff was going on 10 and 20 years be

  • "Many people believe that the NSA collects far too much data, violating the privacy rights of the very citizens the NSA is supposed to protect. How did we get here? What specific structural or cultural changes can be identified that led some to believe it is okay to engage in this sort of broad dragnet surveillance as opposed to getting specific court orders for specific suspects?

    Have you also noticed a human propensity to enjoy having slaves? From those with dark colored skin, to those used for sexual satisfaction? Have you ever heard about the Nazis? The East German Stasi?

    Information gleamed from privacy violation is power. There are people out there that like the power. There are people out there that will use any and every real or imagined threat to justify them getting more of that power.

    Liberty takes eternal vigiliance, including no small amount of blood sweat and tears.

  • and remember how completely and utterly above the law his subsequent behavior made him appear? And then do you remember when the guy he shot in the face publicly apologized to Cheney over the ordeal? And then do you remember how freaking hilarious the next episode of the daily show with Jon Stewart was? I'm not saying that was when it started. But it's a good mile-marker on the road to lawlessness to note.

  • Now that AHuxley has documented that the spying is nothing new, that we didn't "get here" cause we've always been here, I'm wondering about a different question. What does the latest round of revelations about it mean? Based on what's happened when this kind of thing has been revealed in the past, what consequences or results should we expect from this round of spying and relevations of spying?

    • by AHuxley (892839)
      None, the best you can hope for is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee [wikipedia.org] again.
      The US justice system is getting very clear on the legal standing of a vast domestic surveillance network.
      Your getting the same rights you always had 'read' back to you in open court.
      Will we see another round of State Secrets, retroactive immunity or new color of law efforts and a huge sock puppet drive to make it all seem nice?

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