R.I.P. Linuxbox 144
Submitted by many: Linuxbox (AKA MassLinux), the hosting service that provided free server space for many open source and free software projects, went offline today at noon. Chris Gann, the company's owner, told me (by phone) that he's about $7000 short of keeping things going, which is almost exactly how much he's owed by deadbeat "paying" customers. Chris is a truly nice person, which may be why so many customers figured they could get away without paying him. If so, this is a sad commentary on the current Internet business climate.
Re:Damn! (Score:1)
Not getting paid? Such is business. (Score:1)
-Rich
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
Re:Note To Small Businesses: Don't Extend Credit (Score:1)
Kintanon
Re:A Notice To All LinuxBox Refugees (Score:1)
LOOKS PRETTY COOL FROM THIS END.
Re:Note To Small Businesses: Don't Extend Credit (Score:1)
The goal of tipjar [tipjar.com] is and has been since 1996 to provide a virtual equivalent of the ability to drop coins into musician's instrument cases without requiring download of any additional software by anyone.
A possibly space offering (Score:1)
Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
Re:Cheap ass open source people (Score:1)
Re:All too common (Score:1)
Alternatives? (Score:1)
Anything I've seen adveritised locally is at least CDN$20 per month to host a domain name. MassLinux had packages starting at US$5 and I liked that.
Greg
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
---
Another chance for Andover.net (Score:2)
What do you think Rob? Is it worth making inquiries? After all, it's just some host space, right?
VC (Score:1)
The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
First post perhaps...
It's not just the current business climate (Score:1)
Ouch (Score:1)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
How can they not afford this? (Score:1)
--
Who Exactly Is Homeless? (Score:2)
If you know who might need a host, email me at rob@freshmeat.net [mailto].
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
I don't even care that I'm in another country and will have to send a money order. Too bad you can't send absolutely anybody money with VISA easily, that would rock.
Pay your bills! (Score:1)
God, I second that. I did about $1,500 worth of work for a prominent Linux company at cut-rate -- plus fronting them $800 worth of supplies -- and it's taking a court order and collection agency to get the money.
Want a recipe to sink a free-software project? Don't pay your bills... don't show up to meetings... go back on your word... take weeks to ship orders.... The real shame is, you not only sink your company -- you could minimize the honest work done by dozens of volunteers.
If you want your project to be taken seriously, you have to act like a real business. Free software demands extra responsibility to promulgate and promote the work done by contributors.
Anyway, sincere condolences to Chris and others involved in LinuxBox. Sadly, you're not alone. :-/
--Tom
Wow... thank you! (Score:3)
For those of you wishing to make donations or send money, you may do so by sending check/money order/cash/shoelaces/whatever to:
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
I wish I had something more prolific to say, but unfortunately I am still sincerely at a loss for words both over our tragedy and over your generosity and support. We really believe in Open Source and the OSS community at large. We have always been avid supporters of linux since that cold autumn day in 1994 when I first discovered SLS Linux :-)
As it has been known for some time, the domain name LINUXBOX.COM has been for sale. We wanted to use that revenue to expand our GNU/OSS offerings and create a nice site dedicated soleley to those efforts. It's still for sale :-) Unfortunately, due to lack of investors, this was a necessity for us.
I have been getting a TON of email, I will respond to all of it. Right now my hands are shaking and I'm too excited and shellshocked to be of much use, but let me just say one last thing: From the bottoms of our hearts, we thank you all tremendously!!
--Chris
Chris Gann
MassLinux [linuxbox.com]
Any Other Good Linux Hosting Sites? (Score:1)
Darn it!
I was literally just about to move my site there. They had everything I wanted at such a decent price.
This must be a sudden decision, I was speaking to one of the guys there as of last night.
Anyone know of any other good linux web site hosters? I was looking to spend about $10 a month and the features they offered were great.
Re:Alternatives? (Score:1)
Re:VC (Score:1)
Thanks again!!
--Chris
I can provide hosting (Score:1)
Re:Damn! (Score:1)
Re:Any Other Good Linux Hosting Sites? (Score:1)
They are hosting both my site, and my husbands site, and they're pretty cheap (I pay around $13 a month).
Netscape crashes! (Score:1)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
I went from being "Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love" to "Lord Kano-The Gangst", I had him shorten it even further this weekend.
LK
Send your donations! (Score:2)
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
---
WE screw ourselves again (Score:1)
I do have to say though that this isn't just our community who does this. My brother and I were forced out of business b/c our "customers" wouldn't pay up either and we had no recourse that we could afford at that point to collect from them, contracts or no contracts. It costs money to sue in Canada.
I'll just say this about my experience: never take on accountants and real estate companies as clients they are the worst.
My sympathies to Chris. I've been there. It sucks, especially when your own community has pulled the shaft on you. If that's what you like doing though Chris take what you've learned and start again. This time though screen you customers and get payment in advance. If they don't pay you take their site off line within a couple days of their payment being overdue. You have to play tough. Put it in the contract. I'd also say charge a late fee on payments, or if they continue not to pay have a clause where you can confiscate their stuff. You want to be nice but you have to stick up for yourself too.
I'd follow the admonishment of one of the other posters. Post a list of the dead-beats on the web for all to see. I'd like to know who to throw the rocks at.
Good luck in the future.
Sheldon.
*************************************
Superstition is a word the ignorant use to describe their ignorance. -Sifu
Alternate OSS/Linux hosting... (Score:1)
If anyone is displaced by the closing of Linuxbox, I can offer you an alternative.
Sprawl.Net is a server of mine that is located at a fairly large ISP in New York state.
If anyone wold like, I can set something up for you on Sprawl.Net.
Email me with questions, comments, etc...
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity.
-Robert Heinlein, 'Logic of Empire'
The "no setup fee" did them in (Score:1)
I wonder how many fukin porn dealers abused linuxbox
Fair well
Linuxbox shall rise! (Score:1)
I've spend the last two years making sure that Linuxbox was and is the best possible place for free gnu/oss hosting and commercial website hosting to support the gnu/oss community. I don't want to see it go.
I didn't want to sit idle and not mention what a great job chris has done for Linuxbox and also, all the staff at Linuxbox. So, as I sit here and think about our future, I would just like to say, don't give up on the gnu/oss community, they're the ones that brought us here. There just seems to be those slim few that decide that they don't owe a community who has made them. Never-the-less, I say again, Thank you for your support in our time of need. If you would like to make donations, please do. We sure can use it.
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
Ryan French
Linuxbox Staff
http://www.linuxbox.com
staff@linuxbox.com
Re:Note To Small Businesses: Don't Extend Credit (Score:1)
Re:Alternatives? (Score:1)
A Notice To All LinuxBox Refugees (Score:1)
If you are one of the people who were affected by LinuxBox's demise, we may be able to help you out. System 12 has room for about 20-30 small, community-related projects. While our own project wont be formally unveiled for another couple months, we can offer sanctuary on a temporary basis for those of you who need to get your projects back up on short notice.
System 12 is a community project funded by VA Linux Systems. We have a Dual P3/500 SMP box with 512MB RAM, and 36GB of space sitting on a rather fast connection. If we can help, send us a short email [mailto] telling us who you are, the name of your project, a short description of what it is, and a way we might be able to reach, and we'll see what we can do to help.
Good luck,
Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, System 12 (http://system12.com)
Bowie J. Poag
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
Hope he gets enough to keep things running. I'm in for $10. Just have to make a stop on the way home today.
MetaLab will be glad to host (Score:1)
Re:There are deadbeats in every profession (Score:1)
Try WebSupreme - 300 MB space, SSL (Score:1)
List of non-payers? (Score:1)
Re:Linux users just don't like to pay (Score:1)
I remember buying DOS 6.0, and I never even installed it. It sat there in the shrink wrap till I chucked it out. I just couldn't bring myself to pay for 95. NT I got for free, so MS didn't get any money there (from me). I imagine I've spent 10-20 times as much on Linux 'stuff' as I ever did on windows stuff.
Re:Who Exactly Is Homeless? (Score:1)
Re:Alternate OSS/Linux hosting... (Score:1)
I could take 5-10 sites for no charge, then I might charge a nominal fee for others.
I can do domain hosting, webhosting, FTP services, mail redirects (Qmail rocks!), etc... Disk space isn't an issue, as I can add more (to a point).
Its my way of saying thanks to everyone for helping with Linux/OSS. Getting work done would be alot harder without Linux/OSS.
AdamL.
A new home (Re:Who Exactly Is Homeless?) (Score:1)
On the other hand, I don't think he should bear the cost of hosting Open Source projects either. There are some less costly methods of hosting those projects.
For example, I have a host at the University of Utrecht [www.uu.nl] who is allowing me to use some of their bandwidth for free. I am willing to host some open source projects and have all the resources available. Whenever I need more bandwidth, hardware or whatever, there's always been a nice company that came up and offered help.
Just mail me (email on my home page) if you need to host an Open Source project on NL.linux.org [linux.org]...
Not just Linux users!!! (Score:1)
It happens all the time, businesses shut down due to cash flow problems, and no it's not just because Linux users don't pay up. It's not fair to say that, and it's just as bad as saying everyone from Redmond came from hell.
I send my condolences to Chris, and thank him for all the time he spent on MassLinux.
Re:I _just_ got an account with Linuxbox... (Score:1)
Re:Refuge for community sites (Score:1)
Hate to be a broken record, but... I provide free open-source project hosting too. Have for over a month. Really. Not a word of a lie. http://www.xnot.com [xnot.com]
Re:Alternatives? (Score:1)
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
If there is some official place to send this $$$, i'll help
Re:Alternatives? (Score:2)
Free hosting (Score:1)
I talked my boss into letting us take on 1 or 2 small sites that were hosted free on Linuxbox. We are a startup hosting service, so right now we can't take more than 2, but I really wanted to help out in any way possible (to give back to the community that has given so much.)
Email me at extremeforce@pcisys.net [mailto] if your site just lost free hosting on linuxbox. (This is my personal email. We are not pcisys.net)
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
This is sad (Score:2)
Yes, Linux is about "free" software, but: (a) that is "free" as in "freedom", and (b) software doesn't include services rendered.
Yes, Linux folk are generally amongst the most pleasent, friendly, supportive, generous folk you could ever hope to meet. That doesn't mean you have a licence to rob them blind.
Yes, everyone has money-flow problems, from time to time. But giving -other- people money problems as a result is simply a good way of compounding the problem, not solving it.
I think those who owe Chris Gann money should pay up, in full, plus make a donation to him to compensate for their failure to pay on time. These people owe it to Chris, for providing the services he has.
There is -NO- excuse for depriving the Linux community of a service, for short-term gain. In the end, even those folk who have held back money will lose, as now they'll have to buy more expensive services elsewhere, for online stuff. Their short-term gain is their long-term loss, as well as everyone else's loss.
Refuge for community sites (Score:1)
--------------------------
James Byers
jbyers@linux.com
assuming that wasn't a troll... (Score:1)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
WTH !!! (Score:1)
Ok moderators, you can waste you mod. points moderating me down cause of flamebait, I expect it.
Linux users just don't like to pay (Score:1)
Re:Is... (Score:1)
Credit card only? (Score:1)
Who caused the problem? (Score:1)
Likewise, I've been a student, I've survived for 2 weeks on $10 before, I know what it's about. If there are projects that can't afford a home and need one that kind of list should also be put together, I know there are people who are willing to help in whatever way they can and that might be as simple as mailing a check for $5 to somebody.
A linuxboxer story (Score:1)
It was 6 months that my best friend, Hamid, was died, and since this time I wanted to make a website to honour his memory.
My website started, hosted by the firm I used to work, and was designed by them. But, as I did not work any longer for Babel, I had to find a new home for hamidsfriends.com [hamidsfriends.com].
I went in Bordeaux, where my family lives, and I discovered Linuxbox at the cybercafe, because on Freshmeat I had found a nice software whose homepage was hosted there.
I could not imagine that you can have a shell account, php and mysql for $10 per month. So I immediatly signed up, and payed 1 year by advance; Chris got my domain name for me, and payed for me; Later I sent him money via the postal office because I's difficult to send cash to the States.
He, and rudog were very kind, and I've talked with them lots of time. When I finished my day, I found them online, and we talk lots.
Now, I miss them : I'm homeless again.
I was very happy to have a place on the net where I was able to put my website.
The last time I talked chris, he has lots of signups, but not many paying clients. And it was terrible.
Later, I've convinced a friend of mine to signup 2 : 2 frenchmen on Linuxbox
And today, the linuxbox adventure is finished.
I'm very sad for them; I cannot say lots, but I'm still convinced that there is a place for affordable webhosting, with real features.
Go, Chris. Don't give me my money back, you'll need it.
I'm dreaming of a new linuxbox.
Professional webhosting for everyone, doesn't it taste like the linux spirit?
Re:There are deadbeats in every profession (Score:1)
How to get a merchant account (Score:1)
Getting paid is a pain in the neck no matter what you do. I've owned an ISP for coming up on four years, now, and I don't have any trouble getting paid (for service---consulting is another matter) because I don't treat any customer as special and everyone pays in advance. (Even Fortune 500 companies: I get a check from Paramount every year, before they get the service.)
In order to process credit cards, you need two things: a merchant account and some means of processing the charges. If you've never done this before, you'll likely have some trouble getting the merchant account so you might have to deal with a company that specializes in giving merchant accounts to "high risk" ventures. (That's you, until you've got a track record, and maybe even then. We'll be terminating our relationship with our current bank because they won't set up a merchant account with us despite our nearly four-year record.) The one we used is a company called Cardservice, International. Their discount rate (the amount of money they withold when they put charges in your account) is slightly outrageous and their "lease to own" deal on equipment is VERY bad (to the tune of about five times what the terminal is worth.) However, they'll take just about anybody.
To process the cards, you'll need some kind of equipment or software. Depending on how you want to do this, you can get either one and it'll work. A terminal is somewhat cheaper than Linux software (from Hell's Kitchen Systems---check their ads in Linux Journal and Sysadmin) but is vastly less convenient for you to use. If you decide to go with a terminal, you're best bet is to look in your local yellow pages for used office equipment places who will likely have terminals for reasonable prices. The vendors of the equipment or software may even know who to talk to if you want a merchant account. (I would if I was one of them, but I'm not.)
One thing you should remember is this: Always get a signature. If there is a dispute (and there will be disputes) you win if you have a valid signature. You lose if you don't. (We always cave when we get the "blue envelope" so this is hearsay, but it comes from a source that I tend to believe.)
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
I learned Western Union splices in school, but that's about the extent of it
When sending money around to immediate family members away, we just transfer into the account. And for free, too. We can now do it on the www.tdbank.ca site really quickly.
When the banks are different, you have to wire, though. That costs money.
Oh well, it's still going to be a money order anyway. Hohum.
All I need now is an address and some free time.
First Things First. (Score:1)
Basically my gist is your business model has to compensate for these people. If they are a problem, sell off the accounts to a collection agency and get what you can. Write off as losses and save some cash on taxes.
While i have faith in the linux community, you don't just close doors because you have a few deadbeats. 7000 in debt is NOTHING and i think thats kind of rediculous to shut down.
I've missed car payments, i've paid my telephone bill late. I had to go to the hospital and spent every dime i had on that.. other people have the same problems and can't make payments. BUT they do turn off my services, disable my long distance or notify me of there cancellation/reconnection policy
So just get the deadbeats to pay, or cancel there accounts and focus on new and incoming sales and paying customers.. OBVIOUSLY the current pricing model doesn't cover your costs so that may be the biggest concern rather then blaming it on the customers
Re:Not getting paid? Such is business. (Score:1)
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
Re:assuming that wasn't a troll... (Score:1)
Besides, free windows CDs make great coasters for the coffee table.
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
yeah, makes you wonder (Score:1)
Re:Cheap ass open source people (Score:1)
I _just_ got an account with Linuxbox... (Score:1)
There are deadbeats in every profession (Score:2)
It really is a huge problem in all businesses, especially small ones. Larger companies are horrible about paying bills. They will push you around like you don't even exist. Your terms might say "Net 30" on your invoice, but when you call they will just laugh and say, "Well, we don't care what the terms were, we only cut checks twice a year". There was an architecture firm where I live that actually has a "secret" policy to be at least a million dollars in debt at all times.
What's sad is that there is nothing you can do about it since using the law against them will only hurt you in the long run (you destroy your relationship with them), and there are too many other saps out there willing to get their account, even if they do take a year to pay.
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
unpaid sites have 15 dayz to comply or get
rm -rf 'd
how about a
c/o slashdot mail
Return a Little to the community, Please!!! (Score:2)
I just mailed $20 out to help make up for the welching losers out there that haven't paid up.
Obivously, I didn't need to do this, but even more obivously I didn't do it for the sick jerks not paying their debt.
I did it because I have been feeling the need to help the OSS community at least a little. Since I do use their software everyday at home and work.
I use to contribute a lot, but with work and school. It's come down to sleep or code. (Yes, I know most would say code. But, if I get any less sleep I'll start falling asleep while driving.)
So this is the answer. Or at least one of them. All the time I hear newbies asking how can they help if they don't know how to program.
Well, sending even $5 to help others give webspace to OSS projects isn't a bad choice. Especially, if you are stressed for time.
Helping make documentation is another one that most people can do with even bits and pieces of spare time.
Reporting bugs is one that more people should do. It's not that hard. It doesn't take that much time. No really it doesn't, you can fill out some bug reporting information quickly to help others to make a better product for everyone.
Even feedback helps!!! Make a few suggestions politely. And don't forget that it won't kill you to send a few quick emails to some developers saying, "Thank you for taking your time to make such a great product for everyone to enjoy." They will probably like the fact that someone took the time to exercise some manners and say thank you.
Please, add to this list and exercise a few of these suggestions. Help make the OSS world a better place.
Eros, apologizes in advance for any spelling mistakes and/or run on sentences. Please, refer to the paragraph mentioning sleep.
Re:Pay your bills! (Score:1)
I did ultimately get my $$$, but did the same thing you did - cut rate to help them out because they were struggling and *were* a linux outfit.
Finally got the last of my money about a year later after being warned that if I talked about it, I wouldn't see it. Didn' have to, seems everyone knew anyway
I do agree with the comment somewhere above, that the deadbeats get 15 days (check clears in that time) or out on their arse.
Re:There are deadbeats in every profession (Score:1)
Under what pretext do you sue somebody when the fine is written into the contract? (Or is the whole point of your story that you don't?)
Re:How to accept credit cards ... (Score:1)
That'll get you a Merchant ID number that targets your bank account. Then you need software/hardware. You can buy credit card terminals that swipe a card and dial out over a phone line for a few hundred bucksish, or look around for something used. Or you can get Windoze software and a modem to do it. For a server solution (that you can develop against), the name brand is ICVerify, and it's quite expensive.
Or check out www.hks.net -- they sell Unix (incl
linux) flavored software with full APIs (and lots
of different bindings.)
Re:The Rewards of Charity (Score:1)
Pro Windoz?? Are you crazy!
Thats unethetical i say!
Solaris, IRIX, *BSD Variants, Linux, BeOS, well just about anything! But Windoz?!?!
Are you insane man, we need to send you to the digital insane asylum!
Re:Alternatives? (Score:1)
They are better 'cos they use FreeBSD
It was meant to be a fake-troll. (Score:1)
Re:Why Didn't People Pay? (Score:1)
O-Goodie (Score:1)
All too common (Score:1)
This type of negligence is, unfortunately, widespread throughout the worldwide industries. Not just the software industry.
Lessons learned here: 1) Get everything in writing and 2) Provide in your contract that allows you, the payee, to terminate services with extreme prejudice in case of non-payment. That way if they decide to sue you for, oh, removing a website that they never paid for, you can counter-sue. Contractual obligations, and such. :^)
Otherwise, common-sense cover-your-ass rules apply.
Re:There are deadbeats in every profession (Score:1)
Most larger corps that I know about have a policy of paying at least thirty days after the due date because they can make more money then the late fees, if accessed, by collecting interest off of it in their accounts. It's just an accounting trick meant to maximize their returns.