Do Away with Copyrights? 163
GroundBounce writes "Fortune.com has an opinion article in which Stuart Allsop proposes, among other things, completely elimniating government protection for intellectual property. In support of his argument, he points to cases (including Linux) where people have made money on unprotected IP, and the fact that copying can't really be prevented anyway. He also proposes removing copyright protection from Windows98 and Office as a way of dealing with the MS monopoly. "
Linux argument isn't valid (Score:1)
The mention of Linux as software that has prospered without copyright is completely wrong. Linux is most definitely copyrighted. The GPL is founded on the assumption the author has a copyright on the software. If the software were not copyrighted, there could be no license at all, and certainly not the viral, this-code-will-always-be-free provisions that the GPL incorporates.
Furthermore, the name "Linux" is copyrighted to Linus. Thus, anybody can use Linux code within the provisions of the GPL, but only Linus can call it "Linux," thus giving us a way of telling which Linux is "real."
Copyrights/Patents no good for software (Score:1)
As stated before, I don't know the duration a patent remains in effect, but it seems a 3 year patent for software would allow the companies to make money and would allow the software to enter the public domain before it was completely obsolete.
Best Copyright article I've seen (Score:1)
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but aren't copyrights, patents, and other things associated with intellectual property protected by the government, and thus in a laissez-faire capitalistic market would not exist? In which case this would cause products to be forced to stand on their own merits and either be the best example of their niche or be lose out to a better competitor? In which case the question of Microsoft vs. Linux wouldn't exist, because if we really, truly, wanted to copy Windows or at least write an equivalent GUI platform or emulator using its APIs, we would no longer be restrained by such things as the illegality (in some areas) of reverse engineering? Or perhaps Microsoft would have never ascended to its position in the market because someone else would have taken their designed and improved it over its current form? Just something to think about...
For the lazy, stupid and cheap (Score:1)
Yup.
Yeah Right (Score:1)
PErhaps we should get rid of LAnd titles too, and all property rights. Whats the difference between a copyright and a deed? Little. Conceptually, they both represent effort.
Stuart is just a mouth of the times - if Buddism was an up-and-coming way of life, he would tout that too.
I shall beat him with my Hardcover "Atlas Shrugged" - it would be worth it.
License Agreements (Score:1)
Still, I do agree with the article -- it's time we start thinking about why we have copyright laws and if they should be changed/removed, and in that case, in what way.
needs work... (Score:1)
Also, there is no reason why improving open software would lead to a confusing number of versions. Patches are incorporated by maintainers, and extra features can always be turned into modules, or options in the makefile.
There aren't 18 incompatible versions of the linux-kernel source tree, just a couple being modified at the time, clearly marked. People send in their patches, compile their kernels and pick their modules. It's surely less complicated than the many official incompatible versions of DOS/Windows 3.1/Win32s, Windows NT, Windows 95/98, Windows CE, etc., etc. with their conflicting APIs and DLLs with root access and different kernel design....
I agree completely with this guy (Score:1)
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Look at Redhat!ü ?-?¡ý²^??© (Score:1)
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my email to the guy (Score:1)
I largely agree with your article ( http://cgi.pathfinder .com/fortune/technology/alsop/index.html [pathfinder.com]) proposing the elimination of intellectual property. I have a few things to add:
Some of these evils may be excusable if they produce a greater social good -- like encouraging people to innovate and create by offering them financial rewards -- but the evidence is that they actually do the opposite. (Witness the Internet and Linux.)
--
< kragen@pobox.com [mailto]> Kragen Sitaker < http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/ [pobox.com]>
This is exactly how the World Wide Web works: the HTML files are the pithy description on the paper tape, and your Web browser is Ronald Reagan.
-- Neal Stephenson, at http://www.cryptonomicon.com/begi nning_print.html [cryptonomicon.com]
"Star Wars US Release Cancelled" (Score:1)
It is worth noting that the original Macbeth was produced without benefit of copyright.
It is also worth noting that Linux cost more than a billion dollars to make.
It's hard to predict what people will do in a new situation. But I know I don't want to live in a world like RMS's The Right to Read [gnu.org] world.
It all comes down to... (Score:1)
Our IP system sure seemed to work well in its early days. Society as a whole profited from numerous inventions, because the inventions passed into public use rather rapidly. The monopoly granted by the IP laws often encouraged others to develop new inventions with functionality similar to or better than those already registered, which gave even more public benefit from the competition.
Now, though, it seems like our IP system has more drawbacks to society than it has benefits. Companies often use IP suits to stifle competition. It's rare to have a competitor successfully come up with an alternative innovation that duplicates the functionality of the original IP. And companies often exploit the temporary monopolies by making deals with competitors that allow them to control technology to an unprecedented degree. I would contend that the drawbacks in the current use of the system overwhelm the benefit of increased incentive to the IP developers.
What has changed? Why does it seem like there are more drawbacks and less benefits now? I would suggest that there are a number of things that have changed significantly since our current IP system was established.
I think it's obvious that the overall drawbacks of the current system outweigh the benefits it provides. It's time to re-engineer an IP system that still provides incentives for creativity, and protects inventors from exploitative competition, but that prevents the type of abuse that is rampant today. I think it'd be a Bad Thing to do away with IP protection completely, but we've got to fix the current system so that it prevents abuses and actually does provide benefits to the public.
When groups like RIAA complain solely about the loss of revenues, then it's pretty obvious that the original intent of encouraging creativity has, sadly, been lost.
Removing Windows Copy Protection? What folly! (Score:1)
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Linux argument isn't valid (Score:1)
You're talking about a trademark here, not a copyright. It's totally different. Many people who oppose copyright do not oppose trademarks, though apparently Alsop does.
Linux argument isn't valid (Score:1)
You're talking about a trademark here, not a copyright. It's totally different. Many people who oppose copyright do not oppose trademarks, though apparently Alsop does.
IP (Score:1)
Lets look at a what if here. What if there had been intellectual property laws and an enforcement system in place when someone, way back when invented the wheel. And he charged a licensing fee, and wouldn't allow anyone to work on advancing his original design? We could have wound up using big stone wheels even to this day!
Intellectual Property laws are, well, to be frank, stifling to innovation!
linking alsop (Score:1)
You surely degrade
Go back and read some of his editorials in Infoworld's past (Petereley now resides in his old space), and see why he most surely would be under strong consideration as the very first inductee to the MS FUDWriters Hall of Fame.
Attribution is the safe haven in copyright. (Score:1)
I don't care if someone copies and passes to a friend a copy of a short story of mine. They can burn it onto CD, put it up on a web site, whatever as long as they don't get money for it. However, if they turn around and try to sell it to Harper Collins, the true benefit of copyright protection comes in. Because the story is attributed to me, only I have the right to sell it and claim it as mine.
Best Copyright article I've seen (Score:1)
information is free.
the only question is:
Just wait a minute.... (Score:1)
Besides, without copyrights, J. Bob Smith would legally be able to buy one copy of the film, copy the film as many times as he chooses, and sell it to movie theaters for whatever price he wants. With no copyrights, there's nothing to prevent this. With no copyrights, a movie theater doesn't have to pay royalties to the production company. They just have to get a copy of the film somehow. I see bunches of problems with your aforementioned analogy.
Overlooking important points (Score:1)
It turns out that the only thing keeping MicroSoft from releasing MS/Linux (rewind to April Fools Day for details) is the fact that they can't just take the code and do with it as they please because of the GPL and its legal power thanks to copyright law -- they have to release their modified version back into the source pool. And believe me, they'd love to do to Linux what they started to do to Java.
The other point that needs to be made is that while there is money to be made in the support and customization of open source software, there is also money to be made in being the One Central Source of a certain piece of software.
Where do you look to get the latest edition of your favorite Linux distro? One of thousands of places -- anyone who wants to can design, build, and release their own linux distribs, complete with personalized changes to everything.
Where do you look to get the latest edition of MS Windows (heaven forbid)? MicroSoft or some vendor that they've got some sort of contract with. Even if Windows could be freely copied, it would be impractical to make a custom distribution of Windows without the source code. And lest you think that copyright is the only thing protecting MicroSoft's source code, think again. It actually enjoys trade secret status as well. Trade secret law will never go away, even if patents and copyrights do.
So, to summarize, the Top 2 Bad Things[tm] That Could Happen To The World If Copyrights Were Abolished are:
1) proprietary versions of your favorite open source software
2) everything that was proprietary before is still proprietary
I know this is getting long, but it's also important to point out that with no copyrights, there's no way for authors to insist that they get credit for their works. I think the most simple copyright messages I have ever seen include at least a "this message has to stay here" or a "mention my name to use my code" clause. If these suddenly have no legal standing because copyright law is abolished, I could start pawning copies of anything off as my own work.
Copyright is good! (Score:1)
I think it's a little simplistic to say that the problem of open-source vs closed-source is congruent to the problem of copyright vs non-copyright. There is significant overlap but I think there is a valuable place for each of the proprietary, freely-available, open-source and closed-source combinations.
I agree completely with this guy (Score:1)
I don't know how trademark protection got into this discussion. There is a requirement that the identities of proprietors of anything (from IP to ice cube makers) be easily and unambiguously identifiable; otherwise, it would be impossible to have informed consumers because nobody would know who makes what.
Trademark law (and corporate name law which is virtually identical) simply says that you can't misrepresent company A as company B, especially if A and B are competitors. You're allowed to use trademarks in any other situation that you would be allowed to use a person's name. People get into silly lawsuits over trademarks, but then they get into lawsuits over libel and slander too.
One of the _nice_ things about copyrights is that they keep the people who produce copyright works on physical media from hiring people who really know what they're doing to find ways to stop such media from being copied without permission. DIVX makes money without legal copyright protection too. I find DVD's "copying restrictions" (breakage by design) much too annoying to enjoy any movies in that format--I can't imagine how intolerable DIVX must be.
Exactly! Copyright protects the little guy. (Score:1)
Thoughts != expressions of thought (Score:1)
The Internet can provide this function at very low cost (certainly low enough that revenue streams such as advertising can pay for it).
Star Wars costs $100 million today. Ten years from now it might be something that could be produced in someone's basement with a normal desktop computer. We are already seeing some fairly high-quality productions (certainly not major-studio-quality, but not bad either) being produced by groups of people with Pentium-based video editing software.
We would still have Star Wars, it would just happen later. Or perhaps earlier, given that more people would be working on the necessary video editing and CGI animation software.
Overlooking important points (Score:1)
Trade secrets were only a legal problem if such secrets were disclosed to you by their owners, and there was some framework in place wherein you would be obligated not to reveal that information (e.g. you signed an NDA or agreed to one by opening a package). Otherwise, any trade secrets you discover are fair game.
Finally someone doesn't get it (Score:1)
Do away with the GPL? (Score:1)
Most video games could benefit from a copyright of five years, after which there is little loss in loss of protection. News and current information programs (TV/radio/WWW) become much less valuable a year after their initial release. Operating system software is actually less useful when it is encumbered by copyright at all, but there is an argument that maybe a 1-year or 3-year copyright is appropriate.
20 years, though, is much too long. By that point everyone who can really benefit from having access to copyright software has probably bit the bullet and re-implemented it anyway. How much does Microsoft make from sales of PC-DOS these days?
Perhaps we should shorten the length of copyrights for software by one year per year until we find a workable duration.
Of course music, movies, and books have to be handled differently; software is generally used as a tool which requires maintenance and extension during its life, while music generally is recorded once and is simply reproduced exactly thereafter. Enterprises live or die on their software; their phone system's hold-music is generally much less critical.
If Someone Quits ... (Score:1)
"Hi, I'm Joe Blow. I wrote the little spinning globe thingy on Internet Explorer and several other critical library functions. I just quit Microsoft...and I'm not granting them a license to use my code any more. Thpppt."
keep copyrights, abolish software patents (Score:1)
I'm starting to sound like a M$ spinmeister, I better stop here.
Just wait a minute.... (Score:1)
free BMW, a 2000 sq ft house, more vacation time, and no taxes!!!" the crowd goes wild....
Lets see, first we'll need a constitutional amendment.... Then we'll need to convince George Lucas to spend $150mil (or whatever) to produce "Star Wars" so we all can watch it for free - oh, wait a minute, no, everyone will work for free -
How about "To each according to their need, from each arrcording to their abilities" - Suddenly I have lots of needs and little ability.
And forget about trying to establish a reputation, since, w/o trademark protection anyone can steal your identity for their own benefit.
Chuck
IP (Score:1)
Rather, if you have an idea and spend your time and money on developing it - and someone else benefits from your hard work, then you deserve some recompense for it. That's why (In the UK, at least - I'm not entirely sure of the situation in the US) You can't patent an idea - rather you can only patent an *implementation* of an idea.
Just wait a minute.... (Score:1)
Firstly, reproducing films is a pretty expensive buisiness - 10,000 copies ain't cheap.
Secondly, A copy made from a first-generation film is still going to be pretty high quality - probably better than you'd get after a reel has gone through a projector 50 times.... Now, someone who has a first-generation copy can sell copies much cheaper than Lucasfilms can because they don't have to recoup any of the production costs.
Thirdly (And a bit of an aside, I admit) Digital Theatre Screens are almost upon us. Episode 1 is being used to debut the first one. Others are bound to follow. Episode II is going to be completely digital - they'll be using digital cameras throughout.
Re: Finally someone gets it (Score:1)
Faulty Reasoning? (Score:1)
Now, if you regard your works as something that you have an inalienable right to, then you could make the argument that it is in fact "wrong" to copy your works without permission. I don't think, however, that this was the original justification for copyright. I do agree with you that the labor theory of property should govern. You put in the sweat; it's yours...
Thomas Edison (Score:1)
I understand the confusion surrounding the concept of inspiration as property. By doing away with copyrights, though, you make it impossible to profit from the perspiration involved in developing an idea so that it has some use.
Some people do their work for the fame and recognition, some for the money, some because they are just offended by inelegant solutions. If you only allow one reward system, you'll lose the interest of the other two groups and we'll all be worse off.
What have you produced lately? (Score:1)
He fails to mention that it would be the organization with the best distribution capabilities making the money, and not the artist.
What are your feelings on pimps and whorehouses?
I think and work; you copy and profit (Score:1)
Abolish copyright AND patents! (Score:1)
Abolishing the concept of "intellectual property" would only kill the particular innovation that was inspired by greed. Real innovation, inspired by creativity and a need for something better, would flourish as it has for centuries with or without IP law.
It is my firm belief that the best software, art, music, literature, etc. is usually produced by people who expect nothing in return.
linking alsop (Score:1)
What I want to know is who the hell was paying $500 a year to read this tripe in his P.C. Letter? That's a sweet gig if you can get it. I can see Stewart shedding a tear as his last sucker got a clue in 1993 and he had to stop.
Communists for banning IP (Score:1)
Best Copyright article I've seen (Score:1)
Alsop is correct in that trying to protect copyrights is futile, but so is the War on Drugs. And that hasn't stopped the U.S. govt. from trying to stop that.
There is too much $$, too many Wall Street slicksters, too many folks with 401Ks tied up into the companies profiting from the status quo, for such a radical change to happen anytime soon--especially since politicians worship at the alter of those who can supply the $$ that pay for the advertising campaigns that get them elected. Don't count on them to do anything revolutionary.
On the flip side, how would any meaningful large-scale software development project get off the ground if the end results could not be profitable? How would user interface studies, testing labs, or other software-related research ever be funded?
Somewhere between the current situation of copyright/patent-happy, litigation-prone, monopolistic oppresion and the free-for-all of an Open-Source world, there exists a happy medium that will foster innovation without stifling the industry.
We need a hero to help us find it.
That is retarded. Very true. (Score:1)
The point is that people who create something need to survive, but they don't need to make money from the thing they created. Perhaps what they created helps someone else to survive. For example, perhaps a struggling hospital can survive because they are using Linux and free software to run their equipment. So, more people have a chance to survive as a result of Linux. So if Linux doesn't help Linus to survive, maybe it helps other people to survive. Isn't that just as much a contribution to the greater good? Now somebody else may be doing something that helps Linus survive.
It all comes down to... (Score:1)
Not a good idea (Score:1)
1) This would invalidate the GPL. Copyrights can work both ways, you know? Get rid of copyrights and people who write code can't control how it's used.
2) Lower quality works. While for certain things like computer programs and books, a person may make because it's a labor of love. But some things, like multi-million dollar movies, aren't going to happen unless the people who make them get a copyright. Sure, the actors and directors and maybe the pyrotechnicians like their work, but how long is the cameraman going to work without serious compensation? You can't get that kind of compensation unless there's a copyright.
3) Even though the goverment may do a bad job of protecting copyrights, it's probably better for us that they're the ones doing it. If there were no governmen-protected copyrights, it would be up to the producers to protect their own rights. How about all books being printed red-on-yellow so you can't make a b&w xerox? How about those stupid wheel thingies to use software again? (please, no!) Any attempt by the producer/distributor of intellectual property to protect their own interests results in a less pleasant experience for us, the user. The government may do a bad job of getting the little guys, but they can go after the big guys with great hoopla and create a stir.
Ok, that's enough from me.
Ending trademarks would be a bad thing (Score:1)
Anyone out there keep Kosher? The Kosher-certifying organizations place their seals of approval on products, and those seals are protected by trademark law, a form of IP. No more trademark law means that anyone can slap those labels on. It already happens (wwww.kashrut.com keeps track of mislabeled products), even with legal protection backing up those symbols. They would be completely meaningless without trademark law.
Trademarks in general have been around to ensure that the person who made the product is who they say they are. I like knowing that there is some legal punishment for a company masquerading as someone else. Getting rid of trademarks will be the end of cheap "Sorny" stereos and the beginning of cheap "Sony" stereos. How can you tell the difference between a real Sony and a fake if the boxes look the same and the outside cases are the same?
Once again, Allsop has half-thought through one of his columns.
-jon
Exactly! Copyright protects the little guy. (Score:1)
I think the author should have said "everything should be GPL" and might have used the music industry as an example. But think for a minute: once portable mp3 players become commonplace where will be the incentive for buying an abundance of CD's?
Case in point: the Matrix soundtrack. It would be nice to have a few songs, but maybe you allready have some of them or don't like one or two. Wouldn't you rather mp3 the tracks you don't have and sell back the CD or perhaps never purchase it? There are a lot of CD's that I would like to have a single track and besides the fact that I can play that one track in my walkman there is no redeeming value to owning that CD.
Without copyright I could legally accumulate hundreds of mp3's and screw all those one hit wonders (who probably deserve some compensation for their limited talent) whose CD's I'd never buy.
Well DUH! (Was:Some advice.) (Score:1)
Not that I expect to become fabulously rich, but the *PROSPECT* of being so is intreguing and very motivational.
Without even a gimmer of hope of achieving such a fantasy or some fraction thereof I doubt that there would be as many people in the business as there are today.
Abolish *IDEA* patents, allow *Implementation* (Score:1)
Patents instead of copyrights (Score:1)
Agreed. But why should some programmers make $1E7 while others barely scrape by at $5E4, simply because EVERYBODY wants a copy of quake, but only two people want a copy of the real-time cotyledon metabolism simulator? I don't have an answer; I don't think the communist answer is realistic, but I think the purely capitalist answer is (in this case) grossly unfair.
Star Wars would survive (Score:1)
The threat of serious heavy legal action protects the film industry from mass copying today. However, it would be possible for the studios to use physical protection in place of legal protection. If Congress did away with copyrights tomorrow, the film industry would still make obscene amounts of money. Ticket prices would go up somewhat to pay for the armored cars and armed guards that would accompany every single reel of film. It would become publib knowledge that the guards had to physically protect every reel, so that stealing a reel of film would mean physically assaulting a guard, which means he would be defending himsel when he shot the thief. Insiders who tried to steal the film would quickly find that it's hard to swim when you're wearing concrete shoes.
Multi-billion dollar industries don't shrivel up and blow away simply because government stops subsidizing them. The only place I can see where they'd lose money would be in video. While that could be a substatntial loss, keep in mind that there is lots of money spent on film-making that is essentially wasted - did Lucas really need to spend millions Queen What's-her-face's dresses?
Star Wars would survive (Score:1)
If Lucas had to cut costs in order to make the film profitable, could he have found places to do so while still maintaining his artisitic integrity, without damaging the film's entertainment value, and while telling the same story? For example, could he have cut the costume budget?
Finally someone gets it (Score:1)
I would also submit that patents for hardware are all patents for ideas. Metal and plastic aren't what's protected by patents; it's the shape of the metal or plastic. Hardware patents protect the expression of ideas in physical substances. It's all about intellectual property.
If Someone Quits ... (Score:1)
It was me. Sorry. (Score:1)
If Someone Quits ... (Score:1)
Copyrights: Fix not Abolish (Score:1)
Finally someone gets it (Score:1)
Patents instead of copyrights (Score:1)
On the other hand, I can see the some merits in the argument that people should benefit from their labor in creating software. After all, it is the public interest to provide people with the incentive to create the next Netscape, Quake, even Office.
The current U.S patent laws do just that. An inventor (and isn't a software program more like an invention than a book?) is given a time limited monopoly on producing his invention. But after a while (17 years?), the invention passes into the public domain.
I think this is how the software IP copyright should work. Allow the author to have exclusive rights to the product for a period of time, at which point it passes into the public domain.
Star Wars would survive (Score:1)
Star Wars would survive (Score:1)
It's a hard question to answer. Could Queen Padme have been dressed in simpler attire? Sure, I guess. It's possible that it wouldn't even have a noticeable negative effect on the plot/story. But from what I've seen in the trailer, the Queen's attire is baroque, even ostentatious. I'm SURE there's a thematic element that's being served by that costuming decision. Ask me about it again in a month after I've seen the movie a few dozen times. : )
Another good article (Score:1)
The big question is that now that we've lost copyright protection in many ways, how can business continue to work? Although this is a brazen plug, I've written an article on just this topic, and it's quite thorough in its investigation.
Have a look at http://www.geocities
It looks at MP3s, Open Source, Shareware, Project Gutenberg, and what the new rules of the game might be.
Futility Anyone? (Score:1)
- as a side note, how, exactly, is the GPL supposed to protect Linux? I mean sure, if you choose to say you borrowed Linux code, then you have to abide by the terms of the GPL. But if you just steal the code, and release it under a license that isn't open source and strictly forbids reverse engineering or decompiling who would know? I'm sure it's already been done. The GPL is basically an honor system. Copyrights only really protect software with closed source.
License Agreements (Score:1)
Yet another ignorant bastard who can't spell. (Score:1)
Economic Disaster ? (Score:1)
negative affect on the GPL cause as a whole.
If a companies IP rights arent guarded by law,
why would they release their proprietary code
under any license which allows possible competitors
to "steal" their ideas and start making money off
them ? Its all about protecting income. My
opinion is that this would drive companies to go
to even greater lengths to protect their investment
in their code, not open-source it.
As a general rule... (Score:1)
Any comment beginning with "That is retarded" can be ignored.
Thanks for helping strengthen that general rule.
The reference to smoking crack though -- that really helps your argument. Touche!
The only people who would likely lose out if copyright didn't exist are those who depend heavily on copyright laws because they make an inferior product.
I've often paid big bucks(TM) for a video game that turned out to be useless crap. Since then I've learned that it makes sense to try out a game first. That way I end up trying out a lot of games, becoming bored within a day or so, and giving up. On rare occasions I find a game that's actually worth those big bucks and I'll go out and buy it for: tech support, manuals, the box, etc.
Now on occasion the means I use to try out a product before I buy it are technically illegal because of copyright laws. Never mind that after a couple of hours of playing the game I erase it in disgust. But guess what, when I do that the software publishing companies pretend that every person who does that would actually have spent $50 or whatever the ridiculous price is to buy the game, but that money was lost due to piracy.
HA!
Reasoning like this is why software tends to cost as much as it does. Companies have to pay for ads, lawyers and distribution. The end result is that people still steal the software but aren't quite as open about it.
Although it's really a weak reason, you also can't just dismiss that copying can't be stopped. Esp. with the Internet, I can get a crack to nearly any game that's been copy protected within minutes of looking, and within weeks of release. CD Burners are cheap and it's easy to copy software CDs. When a law is simply uninforceable, why is it still on the books?
Anyhow, I think everything should be open. I love open source, I hate intellectual property laws, and have yet to hear a decent argument against my views. Though again, that "crack smoking" comment.... touche
Just wait a minute.... (Score:1)
Movies are a great example of how copyrights aren't needed.
People will still go to theatres to see movies that are worth seeing. If you have the choice to see "The Phantom Menace" in the theatre for $8 or for free on a pan-and-scan vcr version, which are you gonna do?
Now unless you think people are going to start competing with the actual distribution of films... I can't see how getting rid of copyright is going to change movies at all.
Not Rationalization (Score:1)
I don't think you can really make a case about anything that occurs right after a revolution. It's always a time of turmoil, and takes a while for the system to adjust.
As other people have mentioned the FSF considers the GPL to be an interim solution until everything is free. Besides, companies would never be able to take GPLed code and lock it up tight. The worst they'd be able to do is make something based on the GPLed code and not give back the additions/fixes/modifications. But since following that liscense is somewhat on the honour system already, I don't think it would disappear. I think many people who contribute already do so because they think the project is worthwhile, not because they know the GPL will protect them.
Anyhow, I agree that the abolition of copyright would fundamentally shift the economies of the world's countries... but is that necessarily a bad thing? There would still be a need for people to code. Unless you want to imagine an apocalypse then computers will still exist. People will still make hardware, and so they'll need drivers and software. People will still need to produce manuals so tech writers will still have jobs. So what if people copy the manuals? It's pretty useless without the hardware. What about software that doesn't relate to hardware. Well people will still need to communicate, so some form of email system will exist. Now it could be that each company would use their own proprietary thing... but I think it's more likely that you'd see a community effort to produce a very functional email client, because people will need it. I can see employers paying these people to spend the time too... sure, they'll have to deal with the fact that anything their employees produce will be immediately available to their competition... but recent events have shown that companies are willing to go open-source.
Now you would probably see a reduction in the number of certain things, like commercial games. You might start seeing games with hardware protection, or open-source games, or games with really detailed manuals, or more advanced forms of copy protection. But I personally would be willing to forgo games to live in a world where I didn't have to deal with the stupidities of copyright.
What's the difference? (Score:1)
Simple:
If I own a lot and want to build a house there, you can't build a house there too. There is only one land and use/ownership of it is mutually exclusive.
If I own a program I can copy it and give it to you and keep using it. There is virtually no incremental cost to copying and no reason two people can't use it at the same time.
Faulty Reasoning (Score:1)
You're making outlandish assumptions there. Murder isn't a good example because it's hard to imagine it being something you can't prevent.
Think about prostitution or marijuana use. Governments spend millions if not billions trying to fight these "crimes" and have next to no effect. It makes no sense to spend money that way.
Now whether or not prostitution or marijuana use are bad things or not is not the issue. If a rule can't be enforced, get rid of it or change it.
If the community decides the unenforceable activity is really horrible, make a new law that can actually be enforced.
Rationalization is Nirvana for the weak (Score:1)
Re: Finally someone gets it (Score:1)
Remember: copyrights are what allow Open Source to work.
Finally someone gets it (Score:1)
Just imagine what is the obligation and power of both the producer and consumer of software. With GPL, both have no obligation. If somebody asked you for a copy, you can refuse: for whatever reason. Both have most of the power, because both can, if they want, copy, distribute and modify the software. The only thing that can't be done is to give a copy to others BUT says "you cannot copy, distribute or modify" the software. There is one exception: the producer can produce a modified version and change the license term. If you think GPL is good, you won't like this. But it is the fact.
What if there's no copyright law? If that were the case, the legal system do not regard software as something which can be "owned" or "controlled" by individual. Only "physical" representation of the software (like disk, CD, tape, etc) can. Again, both the producer and the consumer have no obligation. And the consumer, not abided by any sort of enforcable law, can also make copy, distribute, and modify the software. The only difference is that the producer can no longer change the license: it is always something like GPL.
In my opinion, GPL is something which use the copyright system to negate the power of copyright system. There is not much point to say "GPL is good, so copyright is good". If you think everything should be GPL, there shouldn't be copyright law in the first place.
Where copyright came from ... (Score:2)
As an institution it was never originally conceived of as giving protection to huge corporations. Nevertheless, the principle of equality before the law gave such protection to corporations -- and since the sixties they've been using it. (Earlier if you count newspapers and magazines, but they have their content written on a work-for-hire basis, which is a bit different.)
The real issue is that our original concept of copyright has been grossly misapplied, in a context it was never designed for. I think a blanket abolition would harm the small guys quite badly; but a case can be made on ethical grounds for removing copyright protection and copyright ownership from corporations.
One way this might work is that small guys still have copyright. Big companies don't, but can publish copyrighted works under license. The big guys license the copyrighted work and then publish it, and can if necessary legally defend their authors' copyright against plagiarism and piracy. For large projects, corporations might license their programmer's copyright in return for a salary. Of course, if a programmer then quits or is fired, this agreement lapses -- I am still scratching my head over how to plug this gap ... but as a big picture it seems to make more sense to me than a total abolition of copyright or a totally copyright-oriented world.
MP3 is liberating to musicians (Score:2)
Abolish copyright AND patents! (Score:2)
Labourers aren't expected to work for free, in fact many skilled labourers are very well compensated. For a labourer a tangible amount of effort was expended to produce a tangible piece of work and in return an amount of tangible money was exchanged. Creativity is a labour as well though albeit not as tangible. The time and effort spent however is very tangible and without some form of compensation that creative process won't continue. I've known a number of excellent musicians and artists for instance who had to give up their aspirations for gainful employment. Almost none of them were looking to get filthy rich but couldn't even manage to make out a meager existance.
IP law is a great deal older than you imagine. There have been patent or intellectual property disputes for hundreds of years, probably longer. It is my firm belief that most of the people who loudly scream for the abolishment of copyright and patents are the ones who would never have anything that needs protection anyway. Note, I said most, not all.
Interesting article, here are my counterpoints: (Score:2)
First consider a trademark. This is legal acknowledgement that your company has the exclusive rights to words and symbols to represent your product and/or company. Suppose that trademark law didn't exist. This would mean no laws would be violated if some company with a competing product copied the marketing appearance of some other product. So for instance, I could develop a soda drink which happens to be a cola and market it in a container similar or identical to that of Coca-Cola. Regardless of how you personally feel about Coca-Cola the consumer itself can't be guaranteed of getting what they thought they were purchasing. Maybe they got Coca-Cola, maybe they got some other cola flavoured caffeinated and carbonated sugar water. Some form of trademarking is required, at the very least to protect the consumer. In this case Coca-Cola should be trademarkable, but the generic type of product, Cola, shouldn't be.
The abolishment of copyright law would result in the silencing of a lot of sources of information or art and so on. Copyright protection enables information of these types to be marketed, which enables the holder of the copyright to put a value on the information and eventually the author of the information gets payed. The middleman between the author and money will rapidly disappear from the equation as more and more people become able to self publish and promote, but the copyright protection is still required. People like RMS provide a great deal of free information, but not all of it, or at least not all of it is instantly free. Some of it is held back long enough for them to earn a speakers fee at whatever event they were invited to speak at. If anybody could get hold of his notes prior to the event and freely publish them they could be seriously devalued. The end result is if this is the only thing he has as a source of income that source of income would be jeapordized. Time to look for new work.
Patent law protects innovation, or more accurately it protects companies who innovate. Real innovation is an expensive process, experts need to be hired at high salaries. During the course of the innovative process the innovators themselves are a drain on the financial resources of the company. This financial burden is only recompensed if the innovation works and proves marketable. For every profitable innovation there are many unprofitable ones. In order to recoup the spent capital (and make a tidy profit, since thats the purpose of companies) the right to exclusive ownership of the patented material is provided for some lenght of time. The costs involved in this type of innovation are why you don't see much of it in the OpenSource community. For instance streaming audio and video, image compression, architectural enhancements of computer systems for the most part are the results of commercial ventures. The people with the skills to innovate in these fields want to be paid.
The above laws need a lot of work, they were established when commerce moved a lot slower than it does presently and there are a few things that couldn't be perceived of at the time of their introduction. If they were totally abolished the present technological pace would be significantly dampened however.
Yes! (Score:2)
Stewart is closer to the truth than he realizes.
Once again, I'll trot out my lovable chestnut :-), Digital Sculptures [best.com], wherein I describe the economic realities of digital media, and the future it portends.
Alsop does overlook one thing, however. IP law shouldn't be abolished completely. Some laws would need to remain to prevent theft of reputation.
Schwab
Re: (Score:2)
Sigh, yet another ignorant bastard. (Score:2)
I find it really hard to believe that this guy is a VC. The fact that he'd use Red Hat and companies that don't even have presence yet to support his argument that a non-IP world can work, demonstrates his ignorance. Look at what Red Hat has contributed: a few tk interfaces, gnome, installation menus, etc. While I like Red Hat and I believe that they make an important contribution to Linux, one must remember that their actual man hours(dollars) invested into software development is pretty damn small. They're paying about 3 or 4 developers for gnome, rather meager salaries at that. Furthermore, Red Hat is just a startup company, there is no proof that this business model is even viable. They're still a private company, no one except the few equity holders have seen their financial statements. This argument would be equivelent to trumpeting Yahoo's young execs as proof that young inexperienced kids can run a mature business, only worse.
Intellectual Property is a neccessity to maintain today's rate of innovation, It shouldn't even require argument. While a few ignorant fools may trumpet Red Hat as proof that a company can survive without 'owning' any IP, they do not even address weather or not it is capable of supplanting classic capitalism. There are so many flaws in their 'argument', that it is laughable. However, I'll save my breath -- because I know that 98% of the readers on
Can you say typo? (Score:2)
I never claimed my statement to be a rational argument. Secondly, I made two fairly obvious typos, that is not the end of the world. I'm sick of incomplete and incoherant arguments that claim to prove that IP is unneccessary and detrimental to society on the aggregate. My typos do not directly degrade my point. The author, and those who espouse similar notions, was writing an essay, whereas I was just writing a quick response. These require different levels of proof reading and structure. If you care to defend this author, defend the content. The act of bringing a few typos in my tirade to light does absolutely nothing to repair such a flawed piece of work.
Greed is Good for Capitalism (Score:2)
I plan to graduate fairly soon and start a small software engineering company. I will neither have the time, nor the resources to compete with the millions of "L337 WaReZ d00dz" who may try to distribute my work, be it good enough to sell.
If it's not good enough to sell, or I don't feel like supporting it is worth my time I'll probably GPL or NCL it.
Sure I could use some elaborate copy protection scheme, but I personally find those extremely anoying.
Without copyright the small businessman/entrepreneur of the software industry is screwed (or humbled if you're that altruistic). He has no chance to be the next Bill Gates, not that being a Business Borg is a good thing. Young greedy bright kids just have to have a goal in mind, right?!
Without this greed motivating him the only ones doing anything will be those who either have the intellectual curiosity to code or actually give a damn about your software woes. Due to the scarcity of those characters I'd rather risk dealing with someone like Bill Gates.
Remember that "I would code if paid..." survey? Imagine that number being 1/8 or less.
Thoughts != expressions of thought (Score:2)
Stepping aside from software, for a moment, consider fiction. There are only a handful of basic plots, and new fiction consists of reworking and combining those into a new expression. It takes work to write good fiction. Now, consider if there were no copyrights. Most authors would actually be little affected, because most authors don't make much money selling their fiction. However, the best authors make quite a bit of money -- lack of copyright would decrease their incentive to entertain us with new works (but not entirely eliminate it because authors tend to have a compulsion to write, just as hackers tend to have a compulsion to program). But there remains the editorial/publishing function. This is very definitely a value-added function: editors weed out (much of) the crap that we wouldn't want to waste our time on, publishers provide a distribution channel. The latter could be replaced, given the internet, when we have a technology that makes electronic books a little more comfortable to read (better screen resolution, and convenient for reading in, say, the bathroom). But the editorial function remains. Is it going to be worth anyone's time to (a) sift through the 'slush pile', (b) suggest revisions and corrections, etc if there's no fiscal return? Bear in mind that with no copyright, anyone is free to reproduce such selected and edited works with no return to the editor. Some editors may have the same sort of compulsion that many authors have (I can think of a few), and whose opinions on a work are worth paying attention to, but on the whole we'd find ourselves immersed in the same sort of signal-to-noise ratio in fiction that we now see on, say, Usenet (or perhaps on Slashdot, if there are enough volunteer editors/moderators).
Substitute 'fiction' above for any other category that can reasonably be generated by an individual - music for example.
Now consider if we'd ever see another episode of 'Star Wars' if that couldn't be copyrighted. Nobody is going to spend $100 million to create something that anybody can copy and distribute freely. Oh sure, there'll still be films - amateur efforts like 'Macbeth Star Wars' or 'Hardware Wars' or whatever. But really, is that what we want our choices limited to?
Copyright law certainly has its problems - the current duration of 50 years (or is it 75 now?) beyond the author's lifetime is a bit ridiculous - but lets think through all the implications before we junk it altogether.
Lack of copyright = DIVX (Score:2)
How'd you like it if all studios only released movies on DIVX? How about (for those of you that need to use non-free software, including games) if your software was released only on a DIVX-like system?
Those with a vested interest in IP will find a way to reduce copying, copyright law or no.
"Star Wars US Release Cancelled" (Score:2)
Nobody is going to spend $100 million to make a film if there's no copyright protection. If you're happy reducing the film industry to the level of amateur efforts like 'Star Wars Macbeth' or 'Hardware Wars', then by all means eliminate copyright. Ditto for fiction, music, etc.
Certainly copyright law has its problems, but lets think this through.
Just wait a minute.... (Score:2)
Nobody will pay (much) to rent it from Blockbuster or pay more than the cost of a blank tape to own a copy. Blockbuster buys one copy (or downloads it from somewhere) of each movie and goes into the copying business. Fast-food outlets do their own movie tie-ins without paying the studios. Eighty-six different versions of "The Phantom Menace" start showing up as wannabe directors start doing their own edits, all of them bad, all of them downloadable off the net (if you want to sit through dl'ing a couple hundred meg each). The usenet crumbles. (If you thought alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* was high volume, just wait...)
Do away with the GPL? (Score:2)
Some classes of intellectual property are more suitable for the GPL than others. Commodity style software is one example (operating systems and development libraries) that works well with GPL and BSD. Other styles aren't, such as vertical applications and games that you only play once. By eliminating copyright, you force all software to be treated the same.
Abolishing copyrights would make things worse (Score:2)
As an example, the GPL only works because of copyright laws. If there were no copyright laws, Microsoft would be free to take GPLed code, change it, and incorporate it into binary-only distributions that only ran under Windows.
Software vendors would also resort increasingly to technical means of preventing copying (dongles, license servers, etc). Artists and writers would also be discouraged from making their works available electronically in an easy-to-copy format. Copyright provides a simple and not overly-constrained legal framework to enforce something that social convention alone is not strong enough to enforce.
Only prospective abolition is plausible (Score:2)
One could imagine that the government could punch a rather serious hole in the copyright laws by substantially expanding the parameters of the "fair use" doctrine. Whether that's constitutional (insofar as the expansion would apply to existing copyrights) is hard to say, as the government's never really done anything like that so far as I know.
Here's a thought: Suppose Congress passed a law making an exception from the infringement laws for the creation of exact copies of copyrighted work (e.g., you can dupe a film and sell copies, but you can't sell colorized copies, or copies with missing scenes, etc.). Such a regime(*) would avoid some of the problems discussed above; in particular, you couldn't reattribute a work to yourself, and it seems -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that the GPL, LGPL and similar schemes would survive. Again, this proposal probably raises constitutional issues. It might, however, be attractive to some copyright holders, particularly those who make their money from advertising embedded into copyrighted work (e.g., television networks). I'd be interested in hearing if anyone is aware of any serious discussions of such proposals.
[* If you don't know, legal types informally call complex statutory structures "regimes"; the term has nothing to do with the third world sense of the word.]
That is retarded. (Score:2)
The other side (Score:2)
Consider the music industry, since the "MP3 Issue" has focused so much attention there. If an independent musician writes and records a great song with her/his own money, copyright is the only thing that keeps a large record company from re-recording or distributing that song without paying a dime to the original artist. Without copyright, the original artist has NO recourse.
The GPL itself is a form of copyright. Remember that the GPL allows free modification, redistribution and use of GPL'd code, provided that the modifications are also placed under GPL. Without copyright, the GPL becomes meaningless -- GNU/Linux could be modified and redistributed in binary-only form.
It's easy to focus on companies using copyright to prosecute some kid who copies games, but we should remember that copyright prevents companies from copying and re-selling the game the kid wrote herself. It can work FOR the little guy, too.
Big always pushes out the small (Score:2)
Agreed. It seems that the chief argument here is that copyright is unenforcable in some circumstances, therefore it should be removed in those circumstances. There I disagree. The fact that something is unenforceable, in and of itself, doesn't make a law a bad law. However, the caveat is that those who wish to make a living off of copyrights must know that lawbreaking may occur, and that the Warez D00dz are hard to stop even with lawyers. If you still think that you can make a living on your copyrights, go for it. One of the nice things about OSS is that it sidesteps most of the copyright issue entirely (and likely makes us look like weenies to the d00dz). The fact that it works for us doesn't mean that we have the right to force it on anybody else.
Some advice. (Score:2)
Dont get into the mass consumer software buisness. It will be gone soon enough. As it is today, if you become successful, you'll be bought out/killed off by Microsoft, or you'll be outevolved by free software.
If you do want to get into mass marketing, you should probably aim at games. They will be a profitable, altho difficult, market for the forseeable future. That market wont be targetted by free software either for a long time, if ever, and it's not a one-product-only market.
Otherwise, leverage off free software and create vertical market corporate systems. Good profits and not an endangered market either. Incidentally, copyrights dont matter much there anyway, since they have a tendency to be one-off to a few solutions.
Or just go into consulting and you'll have a safer life.
Yeah Right (Score:2)
Go look at www.ipnot.org if you wish to have a more detailed discourse on both the history of and the substance of intellectual property.
Best Copyright article I've seen (Score:3)
He's right, though: trying to prevent copying in an era where copying is sooo easy for everyone to do is pretty futile. I mean, I don't need a printing press to distribute my opinions anymore (I only need slashdot... heh heh).
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echos RMS' opinions (Score:3)
We know that abolishing copyright is the proper choice for freedom.. what we don't know yet is if its the proper choice for economics. There never are easy choices in that regard. A physical property-driven society has led us to great advances in the standard of living among the industrial nations - should that right be extended to intellectual property, for the economic benefit of all?
In past, it was justifiable.. is it now?
Will "piracy" go UP when copyright is abolished, or will it stay the same & people continue to buy stuff because "it's the right thing"?
Will we figure a way to charge for copies when necessary?
What restrictions are reasonable on modification (of music, for instance)?
There are plenty of problems to be resolved, and I'm still very skeptical about how it would work for stuff like books & music, but... only with argument & debate will we find out if it'll work.
I'm sitting on the fence, with my foot somewhat on the "no it won't work" side, for now, but that might change.
Finally someone gets it (Score:3)
Copyrights are Good Things, when used correctly (an example: the GPL). It's patents which are causing all the trouble. Here's why:
Let's say Unisys had copyrights on their code for the LZW compression algorithm. I could write my own code for LZW if I wished, and release it. I have violated no laws by doing so, because copyrights only cover one specific set of code.
However, Unisys has a patent on the underlying algorithm. This means that I cannot write any code for LZW compression at all, because they have patented the idea (which I didn't think was supposed to be legal). Even if every single line of my code is different from the code Unisys uses, I have still violated their patent. Is that right? I don't think so.
Abolish copyright?? Wrong idea... (Score:3)
Instead, what I or anyone else can do is write programs/os/ etc. with all of the same functionality as Windows. Such as Linux + your GUI of choice + application software. The secondary authors just can't call their creation "Windows" or "Office for Windows" -- not that they'd want to, by the way.
Finally, there is an issue completely neglected in this article which I would like to present [as a relatively unknown but copyrighted author]. Without copyright law, I could invest years in developing a novel, theatrical play, screenplay, etc. -- and the moment my work was produced --anyone-- could then reproduce, distort, etc. my work.
Money issues aside, my "voice" is my own, and I deserve the right to keep what I say free of distortions. Just like Linus deserves the right (he holds the trademark) to say what is and isn't Linux.
Not quite... (Score:4)
A deed represents something tangible and scarce (that is, not in infinite supply). It does not represent any effort at all. It represents a thing. And this is good; it established the owner of that land.
A copyright represents, essentially, thought. How can someone own a thought? The paper it's printed on, yes. Or perhaps the media. But the thought itself? That cannot be owned. For that matter, it cannot really be given away, for the giver loses nothing in the giving (indeed, it can be said that an idea is worthless unless shared, for only when shared can it be acted upon).
Now, I don't think copyrights are in and of themselves bad things, but they're being horribly misused in the case of software (and don't even get me started on the idea of patents for software). But that's for another debate.