Essay on the GNU Community 143
Rowan writes "I've
written a longish (but nice, I hope) publication about
various matters in the GNU Software Community. It ends with describing how important
conflicts are to learn and discover errors. It's meant to be the first in a row and I think
they'll all be worth the read. "
Editorial? (Score:1)
Your point is valid, in that we have to look at criticism as a tool for building better systems, but I'm not sure why I have to wade paragraph after paragraph of criticism in order to get to this point. Your goal would be better served if you showed examples or instances where this criticism served to improve things. In fact, what apparently should have been the crux of the article somehow turned into some kind of justification for your personal opinions.
As an aside: I know your native language may not be English, but would it hurt to use a spell-checker? There used to be a time where public writing was considered important enough to care about presentation...
English Not Native Language (Score:1)
"Hey guys, he's Dutch. Cut him some slack on his English."
One line, one point.
Some original thought would be nice... (Score:1)
Now, as to the topic alluded to by the subject of this post - the original thought is not lacking in Rowan's material, but rather in the content of the comments posted in response to it. Given, his spelling and grammar are less than perfect, and the focus of this (not complete) work is a bit fuzzy. These facts are fairly obvious - as obvious now as when the first of the dozens of posts blasting him for his english skills appeared. Stop beating a dead horse - the point has been made!
In this entire discussion there have been maybe 10 posts with anything constructive to say on the content of the essay. It is easy to think of criticism on technical points like writing, but much more difficult to attack or defend ideas. Certainly a post or two about the writing style would have been more than sufficient to make this very simple point clear.
It seems kind of interesting that Rowan's creative prowess, and lack of technical writing prowess is mirrored by many readers' grammatical competence, and lack of original ideas.
Overloading vs Deterministic Naming Graph (Score:2)
as in programming languages, overloading is well
defined, but may lead to confusion for the uninitiated.
A more suitable model for the space of ideas can
be found in the OMG Common Object Services Spec Vol 1:
Naming Service. I believe that each name has a relatively precise
meaning for the speaker, but may be understood differently by a listener.
Namespace federation is an ongoing research problem and automatic mapping
is not going to come about easily. A rigid framework (like rdf, if it wasn't just for commercial purposes) would help,
but who in this world can muster the discipline (well, computers, maybe).
Article Wonderful : Comments Suckl!!!!! (Score:3)
Taco is developing some editorial style, finally A great article.
I look forward to more from Rowan..
The anger I can somewhat understand, but there is also a call
for dialouge. GNU means nothing if people can't use the software
for much. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, that many
regular posters here ARE using Windows to connect to Slashdot
because regardless of their pretensions, they *can't* get their
LInux boxes configured at home, sysadins or no. Look at Taco's
about link. Yet, most of you deny it.
Windows can be frustrating when it crashes and when one comes
upon its limitations, but so can Linux be frustrating to very
intelligent people. I think a large part of the frustration is that much
of unix, at least the documentation, is intentionally arcane to protect
the job security of sysadmins, who are not necessarily very intelligent
or creative people. They are just people who have been through
the hazing and have learned some of the ropes. Therefore, one
can argue that GNU software which is intenionally arcane and
poorly documented is *NOT FREE". It is only of use to a few people,
usuallly people working fo large institutions (the usual unix
clients) who parcel out rights and priviledges to "users". And, just
like MSCEs, reboot machines and install most of the time.
Yet, you think so much of yourselves. The fact that you
occasionally cut a and past a perl script does not make you
a developer. Sort of like the "tech men" managing the dying
atomic power plants of the old empire in Asimov's Foundation.
So, is, in effect, much of GNU only for a very narrow and selfish
guild or fraternity, which has probably done more to retard the advance
or computing than to promote it? That can be argued. These
are by no means creative geniuses - just careerists. Persons with
any kind of creativity or wisdom would not post the kinds of
comments I've read here. I say these negative posts are motivated
by envy at something real and refreshing.
Well, Rowan has done some work and research to "hack"
his own system, yet still admits that the whole system is very
frustrating to work with, sometimes. He also points out possibilities
in ways GNU can advance computing into the 21's century.
I agree with much of the specifics (though Rowan wasn't too
specific) except that I like KDE. "Themes" are the least important
aspect of a desktop to most users, and I like the way the
default KDE looks anyway.
Really, there is a lot that can be done to make computing more
creative for most users - even with text based applicatioins.
Especially in the area of "idea" databases using AI and fuzzy
searches, where users don't need to work with files at all.
(Unless they are repairing the system). Much of that can be
done with XML already - it just isn't.
We need more articles like this from people who have actually
tried to use GNU and Linux who are free from much of the
pretension (and dishonesty about one's own experiences with
Linux) I see here. A refreshing change from carefully edited,
pompous and preach articles by known personalities in the
Free Software movement. The rambling style and lack of
editing is ok. Content rules here.
skinbark
Later (Score:2)
You have a few dozen toolkits, several window managers where approx 80% of the code is duplicated, an immense codebase consisting of code designed to be backwards compatible with features people haven't used in 10 years, and a company which until recently wanted to close X off to the open source community.
Hack ontop of hack ontop of hack to make what was originally a glorified drawing API, a graphical user interface.
Linux is ready for corporate computing, server environments where you don't need a 600 meg GUI to run a 2 meg web server or mail server.
Linux will be ready for the desktop arena soon, just not right now.
--
It's good to write (Score:1)
taco, hows about a "submit to ispell" button? Return highlighted mispelled words.
English Not Native Language (Score:3)
English is the lingua franca of the Internet. Since it's the only language I speak and for other reasons I won't go into to avoid a flamewar I think that's a good thing. However, it can put people who aren't fluent in it at a disadvantage. Even people who can speak/read/write it fairly well might not be able to write fully grammatically correct idiomatic English. Unfortunately, this can put people at a disadvantage in discussions as it can make them seem confused when in fact their ideas might be clear. Of course, their ideas might possibly be murky as well, which makes comprehension doubly a problem!
Slashdot readers use Windows (Score:1)
Incorrect. Look at the slashdot stats page - more than half the slashdot visitors read the page using Windows. That means that somewhere, either at home, at work, or both, they have Windows. Many of those Windows users also use MS Office (especially those at work), so it would be of interest to them.
Also, many slashdot readers are sysadmins. Any sysadmin whose network contains windows machines running Office (the majority of corporate networks) needs to be concerned about this, since thousands of messages propagating exponentially will take down their network.
Hows this for a poll... (Score:1)
...how much would someone have to pay you for you to read this guy's book? Personally I'm in the 50-100k range. That is if he ever "archives" the feat of finishing it. I'm somewhat scared at the prospect of this guy spewing forth even more vile drivel. I really hope Rob is not planning on posting the next one.
-W.W.
Grammar: F | Points: C | Effort: A (Score:1)
Yes, he does need a grammar check and a spell check. His essay is not focused. In short, he could use a good writing class. But....
HOWTOs often have misleading or, in some cases, simply inaccurate or outdated information. The assumed user knowledge in HOWTOs can, at times, be above the level of what I think the target audience. Remember a HOWTO is not a man page. It is reference of first resort. While our (the Linux User community) online tech support is considered by most as superb, we can sometimes attack those who we consider to be below us. I know, I've been on the receiving end of this. Why do we do this? This only reinforces the stereotype of Linux being elitist. Not a good thing.
On his point of KDE vs. GNOME vs. everybody's favorite X-widget set du jour, he is right on the money. Why is there so much duplicative effort? Do we really need that many different ways of looking and manipulating the VFS tree (MC, xfm, xfilemanager, and on and on). Just how many different variants of FVWM are there? This concept of having to reinvent the wheel is gonna kill Linux from the inside. Maybe we should look at Linus' example with the kernel. One vision (or direction, if you prefer) has kept it on an even united (more or less) path.
Maybe I'm just bitter having to maintain an NT LAN for a living. All but one one of my users is on Winblows 9x (the exception is NT, btw). I find myself dealing with even worse and sadly less coherent rants. The punch line is they expect me to fix inheirently broken software. This guy is a technical genius in comparison. I would gladly take an office full of Rowans. He, at least, has shown he has the ability to learn. My users... Well let's just some are better than others...
I will fight to death to protect Rowan's right to speak - grammatically incoherent or newbyish (is that even a word?!?) as it might seem. There are a lot more Rowans out there than than there are Alan Coxes or Linuses, or even ESRs. We need to embrace them, as well.
Silly Stupid Question to ruin your day: (Score:1)
Silly Stupid Question to ruin your day:
Do we know this post really came from Rowan? I can well imagine any high school freshment appending the name "Rowan" to an AC post. Why should we believe him? There is no entrance exam to Slashdot. One does not need to present a photo id. The only way to trust an identity is using an identity scheme (PGP or similar).
For instance, I could, at this moment, append an article with the name "W. Clinton" and confess to a global conspiracy that cumulates in the fabrication of a war in a made-up country called "Kosovo". We all know this is fake, but it takes just as much ease in writing as it would for someone to sign "Rowan" Did I make my point?
-Ben
That was ... strange. (Score:1)
Yes, the current state of computers sucks. Yes, most of us can imagine something better. That must have been really chewing you up for it to come out in a nice long rant like that.
But _why_ did this end up as an article on
- Ken
Er... what? (Score:1)
I tried to get beyond the linguistic aspects to follow the train of thought in the content of the article, but it eluded me, unless it was "I like computers. Computers suck. I like Linux. Linux sucks. The best way to do things and the worst way are the same thing. I don't understand any of it. So I'm writing a book about it." Would the next paragraph have said "I like jello"?
Umm... (Score:1)
Roger, That. (Score:1)
No Way, Dude... (Score:1)
This matters? Melisa doesn't? (Score:1)
Sorry, but somehow I think the Melisa virus is much more likely to matter to the average nerd than yet another OSS peice.
Ermm .... (Score:4)
Rowan: it has a certain charm and I accept that you may go on to say something interesting, but that's an awful lot of grey text to wade through before reaching it.
Strange concepts II (modularity part) (Score:1)
Rowan: your piece about modularity feels like it's missing a dozen paragraphs somewhere.
Let me explain you why I feel that:
In one paragraph you say "Some of the KDE Developers are working on a really good and promessing Office package."
And you even go on to say that "This Office package consists of a level of modularity which I quitte enjoy to read about."
Then you switch suddenly to saying KOffice is somehow flawed because it is not "the system which will finally save us from uninspired influences."
First, I fail to see how a simple office package (or any software, really), is supposed to do that, but then you switch again to "KOffice sucks"!
You change, in two paragraphs from promising and something you like to read about to "it sucks", and the only reason you give is some cryptic message about uninspired influences.
As I said before, if you want to reach the reader, you need to make sense for the reader. I simply can not digest what happened between those paragraphs, and seing such a 180 degree turn in opinion makes me queasy about the validity of your point.
Imagine if I started an essay by saying "George Washington was a fine guy, I like to read about the good acts he made" and suddenly you said "but he was a bloody tyrant!".
The least the unsuspecting reader would expect is an explanation about *why* you change your point of view so quickly. And if your explanation was "because of all the uninspired influences he had", well, let's say your history concepts would be considered shaky.
You say you have studied and learned the GNU system a lot. If after taking all that trouble, you give us an essay, why not put in the essay some of the insight I am sure you gained from the study?
How about some reasoned foundation for your ideas and opinions?
How about some coherence between what you say in one paragraph and the next, or was it just a rethoric trick?
If you want your essay to be considered, you may also like to get down the high horse. "it sucks" is not an argument any developer is going to consider.
Finally: please consider adding a notice explaining us your qualifications. I would consider modularity complaints from a member of the OMG more than from a member of the NRA , for one thing
Strange concepts (Score:3)
"it sucks", "it looks worse than a windows theme", "it will get better using Qt 2.0".
Gee, wonder what would happen if you *got* into the argument.
Ok, let me explain you a few things, please take it kindly.
1) The goal of KDE is not to provide themes to you. There, I said it. Themes are 99% of the time pointless, distracting uglyness, which only detract from your productivity.
2) Configurability != themes.
Configurability is providing the means to adjust the behaviour of your environment to different ways of working.
KDE's mac-like menu bar is more configurability than all the gtk pixmap themes. Why? Because it's useful. Because it provides you a different feel, not just a different look.
It's an option, you change it, you adjust KDE to your preferred way of using it. It's configurability.
3) Why leave windows and go to KDE?
Put like that it makes no sense, of course.
Then again, that should come as no surp[rise, since it actually makes no sense.
People don't like windows for KDE (or GNOME). They leave windows for Linux, or FreeBSD or whatever, +X +KDE.
So, what do you get by making that switch: you get multiuserness, you get remotability, you get stability, you get some extra software, you get some software cheaper (say, WP), and you get a GUI that is not terrible, from the point of view of a person who is used to windows.
You see, if you switched instead to Linux+X+twm, several of the advantages you would get are not accessible to you, or are accessible through a higher learning curve, which often means the switching user won't care.
It's a golden rule of UI: if the user doesn't know it's there, or if the user can't *use* it, it could as well not exist.
Hope this helps you, it looks like you have something you want to say, but I can't see it behind the things I see as wrong or disagree too deeply with. If you want to reach a reader, you need to make sense to him.
Then again, I may not be your intended reader (I'd say it's likely I am not
Disclaimer: I am a KDE developer.
Another thinker-Approved character assassination (Score:1)
2) Does anyone really care what pundits think?
3) Do you have any realization of the fact that you probably couldn't spell "bathroom" in his language?
4) I missed the adolescent rage in the piece. He seemed like a genuine nice person attempting to communicate, unlike your sorry ass. How many raging adolescents go out to do a little gardening when they've got a head of steam?
Geez, some people....
Oh, please... please yourself! (Score:1)
And using "every vernacular profanity"? I count 5 "damn" and 1 "shit" in the essay. I don't think even my mother would have a problem with that, given the length of it.
Finally you have resort to calling me illiterate, which I think pretty much proves my point that you're more interested in personal attacks than anything else.
Not much of a "thinker", after all.
OT:English Not Native Language (Score:1)
Finally... (Score:2)
If I knew more, I'd write it myself. But if I had the documentation, learning it would be a lot easier. It's a vicious circle.
Spelling? (Score:1)
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Slashdor needs editors (Score:1)
Say it loud (Score:1)
Was it really E.B. White who said this? As far as I know this was to help people to learn how to pronounce words, it was not a statement of philosophy.
E.B. White was a meticulous writer and would not be impressed by this essay. One of the things he said in "The Elements of Style" was: Edit ruthlessly.
Editor's Nightmare (Score:1)
Use the net, Luke! (or should I say Lisa). you can start with the USENET group "misc.writing", or just go to Yahoo and do a search on "writing".
This matters? Melisa doesn't? (Score:1)
Nope...because the average nerd doesn't use M$ apps, and hence is immune to Melissa.
Interestingly enough, although I get a ton of email, I've gotten zero Melissa-virii emailed to me, which implies that no one I know uses M$-based-email, either! Kind of surprising, since that includes my non-nerd family. But encouraging.
Slashdot readers use Windows (Score:1)
Oh. Okay, okay. In that case, I should have said that most nerds don't WANT to use M$ apps. ;-)
I also think that the appeal of /. has been steadily broadening. I'm much less sure of who is the readership than I was last year.
Er... what? (Score:1)
Contradiction does not always mean bad writing nor unclear thinking, all by itself!!!
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,
it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness.
it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity,
it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness,
it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair,
we had everything before us, we had nothing before us,
we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way--
in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."
From A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens.
Another example:
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
From Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (book III, Song of Myself)
A tolerance for ambiguity leads to an effective increase in wisdom and intelligence, and indeed it's ironic that the author of this Slashdot essay claimed that it was about conflict -- perhaps even self-conflict? Let paradox and contradiction reign.
Er... what? (Score:1)
Good points...but... (Score:2)
However, aside from his advice about approaching conflict in a positive way, he had little to say about what to do about the problems he raised.
So in that sense, he's preaching to the choir here at Slashdot, to very little point. It's relatively easy to identify problems, but it's often quite difficult to solve problems.
On the other hand, there's a place for this... I've been complaining about Microsoft for ages, but I didn't have a concrete suggestion about what to do about them, I've just been frustrated.
Focus is a Good Thing. (Score:3)
I confess that I'm probably a bit more critical of others' writing than most (life's hell when you were a double Comp Sci/Englsh Lit major), but I hope you're open to a little constructive criticism.
Focus, my man! I think you tried to make too many points too quickly, and I often had a difficult time figuring out where one point ended and another began. I know it can be difficult to have a lot of things to say, and a limited space to say them. You're sure to lose readers, though, if you try to cram too many of them together at once.
As an example, CmdrTaco's title for your article was "Essay on the GNU Community," but that was only a small section at the end. I'd be very hard-pressed to come up with a title that fit the entire article... and that should be a sign you're trying to say too much. Select a topic, and write about that topic. You can always write more later.
You've got several distinct ideas there (and more than a few major complaints) which could easily be articles of their own. Think them out, come to conclusions where you can, and take some time to decide if they might be worthy of their own article. If they're not, see if they help make the main point if the article you're writing. If they don't, throw them away -- they're only cluttering things up.
Rant, rant, rant. (Score:1)
A poorly written, stop-and-go, nearly incoherent rant about what someone found wrong with Linux is something I can easily pick up from comp.os.windows.advocacy or any of a dozen other Usenet groups. In the mean time, real news like the NATO airstrikes in Yugoslavia gets ignored.
At least the comment section is nice and pretty now.
Leapfrog, the mediocre.
PS: Moderate me! Go ahead! I dare ya! (insert rabid frothing-at-mouth here) I don't need this! arragagea bbleaergh!
You only get one mistake. (Score:1)
I say we organize a lynch mob post-haste and go seeking vengeance!
</sarcasm>
Leapfrog, the slow-witted.
PS: Yes, it's a joke. Sarcasm. Satire, if you will. I mean no ill will towards Rob Malda or anyone else on the Slashdot crew. What they decide to put up on their own web pages is none of my business.
This is a /. screw up (or CmdrTaco) (Score:1)
Shame on you
Say it loud (Score:1)
A suggestion.
E.B. White has offered the immortal advice, "if you don't know how to say a word, say it loud!"
That is: don't apologize for yourself. If you're wrong, you'll be forgiven. Move on. Don't call attention to the fact that you might be wrong ('cause what if you're right?).
The online equivalent is: "if you're worried you might be flamed for something, say it loud!"
Jamie McCarthy
Ermm .... Give the poor guy a break (Score:1)
And besides, it may be a bit distracting to read the spelling and grammar, but who is it really that needs a shiny package to appreciate what's inside? I don't... and that's why I get my linux over the internet. I don't need a shiny box to enjoy the contents, and I don't think that the author of the article has to wait and study and learn perfect oxford, (or south compton) english before he is permitted to express his views with the slashdot community.
Give the guy a break, and hopefully along with me you'll realize that he deserves to be commended on his article's content AND his english skills. (Whatever his native tounge is, I doubt most people can speak that as well as he speaks english)
Bottom line: The point is the point. If you understood what was written in the article, then I'd say that the article was good enough for slashdot. This isn't the New York times, and I think it would totally SUCK if people got flamed for writing poorly. Think about the people that WOULDN'T write in who SHOULD.
http://opop.nols.com/index.shtml
crud floats ontop (Score:1)
I don't clain to be a writer, but my teacher once told me that to get folks to read your work, you must say what you are going to talk about in the first paragraph, then talk about it in the rest of the essay, then end it by saying what you talked about.
Ermm .... (Score:1)
For example, there are no paragraph breaks in the article at all. It's all
s, sometimes with two in a row. No , , etc, just font size tags. Sure, these aren't big things, but it makes a difference and makes the article looks worse than it should.
This matters? Melisa doesn't? (Score:1)
Slashdot tends to appeal mostly to users of alternate OS's, like Linux. Thus, the Melissa virus wasn't a terribly big deal to those people reading
This article talks about a bigger topic than yet-another-windows-virus (well, worm I guess). That is the potential for alternate OS's to be accepted in the mainstream. Rowan has some interesting insights and it's part of
Posting this article shows more than yet-another-OSS-opinion-peice, but it shows CmdrTaco's continuing goal of bringing the news to the people and the people to the news. "News For nerds" also means "News By Nerds". What matters is the medium, not necessarily the message.
Okay, sue me, I tried to read it.. (Score:1)
Okay, I tried to read it, but maybe it's my short attention span or whatnot, but I lost track.
All I got was that Koffice is bad, GNOME/KDE are going in the wrong direction with Corba. That we're not really modular. That there's name-space pollution. Could someone give me a quick summary of what he's saying?
A lot of people said he had some very good points, a quick summary would be helpful when I take the time to re-read it again.
Lots of German Grammer (Score:1)
It is very nice of you to offer help with the translation of German grammar into English, but in this case, it isn't necessary. Rowan is Dutch, not German.
Moderator responsibility (Score:1)
Ermm .... (Score:1)
Better presented? Hmm. I had no trouble at all with the presentation. If you dislike the default colours and fonts your web browser presents, change them. If you can't change them, it's time to change your web browser.
I found that this article presented many very good points. A bit more focus might have done good, though.
Devious Plots (Score:1)
If Cmdr. Taco et al wanted a whole raft of submissions, I can think of no better way than to post an 'essay' like this one.
Ah, CB radio ... (Score:1)
Usually it was done in a song, though.
Oh, please... (Score:1)
There are numerous people in the free software
community for whom English is not their first
language. They have no trouble communicating ideas
without using every vernacular profanity in the
American lexicon.
If you think this essay had any merit, you are illiterate.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Why are you trying to impress me? (Score:1)
Was Daddy absent or unattentive?
I know how that is. :^(
My sympathies.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Yet *Another* CmdrTaco Approved Sophomoric Essay (Score:1)
(Reposted due to its relegation to -1 status, no /.'s many illiterate moderators.
doubt by one of
Cannot handle the truth? Fine. Ignore it. But do
not censor it.)
You only fuel speculation that you are indeed
functionally illiterate by linking to such tripe.
Not only that, but you lend credence to pundits
who claim Linux is the ``domain of pimply geeks''.
If you wish to expand /. into ``News and Essays
for Nerds'', get an editor who can read.
/. is a great site and provides a valuable
service to...
...hmmm...
...``pimply geeks'' who like to vent their
adolescent rage?
Well...if that is case...nevermind.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Don't blame the moderators... (Score:2)
The language excuse (Score:3)
I'm Dutch too (assuming Rowan is Dutch). I don't think there's much of an excuse for the amount of misuse of the English language displayed by the article.
Granted, non-native speakers make mistakes. But Rowan chose to write this in English and submitted it to Slashdot for 'publication'. I think more care could easily have been taken.
And even if the language excuse were valid, there is no excuse for the lack of coherence of this rant. I've read rants by Rowan before (on the ggi mailing list and I think he's also been active on the fbcon mailing list). This is one rant too many. Now I'm going to give some potentially unflattering suggestions:
* I think you mentioned you wouldn't learn C on that list, but would start with C++. If you want to have a say in GGI development or Linux kernel development, I strongly advise you to learn C. If you then want to influence the direction of a project, *code* (or document, or test, but do something constructive). If you do that, you may find people may actually listen more carefully to what you have to say.
* If you haven't experience with any programming language yet (though I've seen a reference to Pliant), then with Eric Raymond I suggest you learn Python, which I consider to be a great language. If you come to comp.lang.python (or tutor@python.org) with questions I'll personally help you. But really, any language will do. Even Perl.
* Please read a book or web page about writing coherent essays.
Regards,
Martijn
Awright...let's move on, shall we? (Score:2)
I would like to point out that:
a) nobody's perfect, not even El Taco himself
b) everyone has a bad day
c) everyone makes the occassional blunder
Now, that said, I think that we can all agree that the general quality of slashdot is pretty damned high, and getting higher all the time (thanks be to the gods for comment moderation...*hallelujah!*).
Just 'cuz CT fumbled the ball this once doesn't mean that the overall quality of slashdot is suddenly dropping. Just 'cuz ol'TacoHead had a bad day doesn't mean that he's suddenly turned into a bumbling moron.
Rob has done a *phenomenal* job with this site and everything related to it. My god people, have some respect.
Now, since everything negative has already been said, let's give it a rest and move on, okay?
Thanks.
- deb
Read beyond the anger (Score:1)
For everything and everyone, their time will come at some point, but one can't help but wonder whether or not Linux's penetration into the more general populace is moving more quickly than people can adopt to it. One might wonder whether or not it would really matter.
But the frustration the article radiates seems to echo what others are feeling when dealig with something like Linux which is so different from their previous OS. In most cases, this would be Windows.
But the ironic bit is the tone the writer had towards learning. Combined with the lack of thought and re-reading before posting, I think it conveys a sadder message, one which has little to do with Linux itself, but more with the current attitude that seems to pervade many people.
The attitude of, "Why should I have to learn this? Shouldn't it be done for me? What a bother.".
Dealing with that anger and that attitude might help that guy alot in the long run.
- Wing
- Reap the fires of the soul.
- Harvest the passion of life.
May I edit this? (Score:1)
Also, does anyone (Rob?) have web space to post the edited article? My workplace would be most annoyed if our web server got slashdotted.
Update (Score:1)
May I edit this? (Score:1)
Ack, this was worthless (Score:1)
That article was a total waste of my time. It is poorly written, poorly structured, and poorly supported. Granted there is a language barrier, but even in his native tongue it would still be shoddy. He sounds like he is 14 years old. Please don't post 'essays' like this!
It went far beyond mere language barriers (Score:1)
This essay was poorly formed. It rambled on with no real direction. There was no real argument made, and damn little evidence given. It wouldn't matter much if this were written in French, German, or what have you. I can tolerate mispellings, a few overly literal translations, etc. I definetly get the indication that this person has next to no experience writing essays and argumentation. Hence, I assume him to be young. I did not say that the writer was neccessarily unintelligent. His product, however, is essentially worthless in my opinion.
You claim you're trying to share (Score:1)
If you are trying to spread your ideas than the optimal form is in the most logical order. As I stated earlier in the thread, it wasn't the typos, spelling mistakes, or minor grammer errors that bothered me. It was the basic structure, or lack thereof. Most people will simply stop reading an article this poorly written. It was less than optimal to say the least. To compound the error the author has no programming credentials and no authority that will compel the majority of people, even Red Dotters, to pay heed to your words. When one is in such a situation, one's best bet is to make a strong, clear, and concise argument. Proper grammer is a plus.
If elitism means ... (Score:2)
If it is elistist to demand proper communication, then I am by all means elitist.
Most of what Rowan said was _obvious_ to the informed individual. To the uninformed individual there is no argument supporting his positions. He certainly does not have the kind of clout for anyone to just take his word for it. The point is that this paper really has no point. Other than something for 15 year old slashdotters to clammor around.
For example, while he does point out that there is a lack of unity in window managers he doesn't really offer a good reason why there should be. Or the fact that "Open development" might actually have a few inherant flaws. While some believe that "Open Source is the ultimate standard", I would beg to differ. Empirical evidence backs me up on this, eg: window managers, GUI libraries, etc. Just because you release your source, does not mean people will rally around yours. It takes a great deal more than this. This is one strength that the corporate world has enjoyed.
When IBM entered the PC market, there were already many other machines out there. All of them incompatible. IBM became THE standard virtually overnight. The writing was on the wall, virtually everyone knew it. IBM had sufficient clout to make it happen. While some may argue that the IBM PC was not the optimal platform, I'll still argue that this was the best thing for the industry and the end user. Having ONE platform, meant that individuals and companies could code for ONE platform and be able to rely on it still being there when they're done. Companies could develop sound cards, and video cards, etc. As the market grew, IBM compatibles started rolling in... Overall this was a good thing.
This is one quality that the Open Source movement lacks simply lacks. This is in some ways a desirable feature. Perhaps some will say there is a certain amount of personal clout that will achieve the same effect. That RMS, Torvalds, Raadt, and co. can bring similar forces to bear. While this may be true to some extent, I do not believe it is anything as close. There will still be significant fragmentation.
Let us imagine if the Linux community wanted to create ONE 3d graphics API, sort of like OpenGL, only absolutely free. There is a certain neccessity for unity if we desire hardware accelerated video cards. I suspect it would never happen, atleast not on a large enough basis to really compete with the alternatives such as OpenGL. You would still have Joe Schmoe, saying. Hey wait, I can do it just a little bit better. And a few bleeding edge types who say 'you know, he's right'. This happens all the time. Unlike the commercial market Joe Schmoe is coding for his own personal edification, not for profits. The fact that he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell in getting it off the ground won't deter him. The end result is fragmentation, and maybe excessive fragmentation.
My point is not that Linux, or OSS sucks. Rather that OSS has certain qualities. Not all of them are optimal. I wish people would speak frankly about these issues, so maybe they can be addressed. I'm sick of hearing 'arguments', that all needs will be meet(and better than the commercial markets) because 'if there is an itch, someone will scratch it'. This is not an argument, it is conjecture. Let us think as individuals, don't just take RMS' words at face value.
Open Source spellchecker? (Score:1)
I don't mean to offend Rowan--I actually appreciate his enthusiasm--but I'm not sure it's wise to turn every Tom, Dick, & Harry's rant into a Slashdot topic. Especially when it just isn't that well-written. If you get something like this, Rob, you should send it back to the author with a nice note asking him to clean it up a bit, not just in terms of spelling (I was just having some fun with my Subject:), but in terms of focus. I'm sure that a good portion of the readers never made it to the end of the article because it was a bit rambling and scattershot. Again, I don't see why this rated an entire topic of its own.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Story Filter? (Score:1)
Can we set the threshold to filter out crappy *stories*??? I don't like offending people when I can avoid it, but I don't think this story should have been posted. I look to Slashdot for intelligent, well thought-out articles and useful links. And then I come to an article like this one with enough typo's to make it painful to read, and frankly the author didn't have anything interesting to say.
-------------------------------------------
Jamin Philip Gray
jgray@writeme.com
http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~jpg2/
What is this flamebait? (Score:4)
First: Just because you're a hacker and spend time configuring the guts of your system doesn't cut you any slack when you're trying to communicate. A good bit of your text was rambling, pointless, poorly constructed and ungrammatical. It is no excuse that you're a hacker. If you want to say something to the larger community, learn to say it clearly and well. Judging by other comments, you nearly lost most of your readership before they got to your point.
Speaking of points, wasn't yours, "We need to be willing to gracefully concede a point to others, to compromise for the good of the movement"? Or did I miss that?
In case that was his point, tho, speaking to the rest of the community, I'll say I can agree. Being prepared to work for your ideals is critical, particularly in the face of opposition. But above all, being willing to work even when the credit doesn't come to you, even if it means "trying on" someone else's vision for a day. That will be where advances can be made. On the other hand, there comes a time when compromise is not possible. When Vision demands that you move this way. There are going to be collisions. Live with them! Conflict is not evil, but what is done in the name of "resolution" can be. When conflict rears its head, we would do well to look beyond the shouting, to the root cause, and strike there.
So back to you Rowan. You've thrown the gauntlet; I'll flip it back. Pick one conflict in the Open Source/Free Software movement, and recommend a solution. Demonstrate the skill we need more than temper-control: discretionary judgement.
Ermm .... Yikes! (Score:1)
By far, my favorite one was not regreting missing shool.
Frankly, this makes Katz look like a pretty careful writer (and he would be considered good home page quality, at the very least). Please ask the authors to clean it up, and not post it until they do. Our time is valuable, and considering the potential readership, time "lost" in fixing the grammar will be recouped by the readers very, very quickly.
Ack, this was worthless (Score:1)
The article was a waste of my time, too, because I really couldn't see a point that I hadn't already beaten to death in my own thinking and reading. But that had nothing to do with the language.
Bad documentation ?? (Score:1)
I think it would be a good idea for you to write some documentation on what you know. I used to be a beginer, and some friend's helped me out to understand more and more.
Now, I feel that I am a prety knowladgable person on Linux (and other UNICES). The thing is, that if you write down a document, there is at least one person out there that would appreciate reading it. And, if you write it, it will save some time to gurus that just don't feel like writing documentation for begginers.
As for Linux beeing complicated, I don't think so. It very easy to understand once you got the hang of it. It's just that it permits so much control over your hardware that knowing everything is almost impossible. For basic opperations, it is not worst that dos.
For an example, my brother doesn't know anything about computers. But, he can do anything he wants to with my box. I've just set up a few aliases, and explained him how to configure Window Maker, and now, he can do everything he feels like doing as if he was working with windows.
Papi
PII and pentium pro processors (Score:1)
Did you know that the PII and pentium-pro can process up to 3 instructions an the time ? It does so by splitting instructions into microinstructions that are sent to a pool of instructions.
Then 5 processing units execute microinstructions at the same time (if they are independant, of course).
This is just A feature of the processor, but a big one that shouldn't be neglected. If you want to learn more (and speak french) here is
a link to more information on the processor. [uquebec.ca]
Papi
Yes, but did he have a point? (Score:1)
I agree totally. I don't really care about the spelling, or the grammar even (although in this case it did make the article difficult to parse). But there has to be a point. I read all the way through this article twice, and I just don't get it.
Rowan, what are you trying to say?
What is your point???
--
- Sean
Read beyond the anger (Score:1)
Thanks!
--
- Sean
And notice that was moderated upwards... (Score:1)
--
- Sean
When is it finished? (Score:1)
(And yes, I'm paraphrasing, and no, I can't remember who originally said it. Source, anyone?)
--
- Sean
Read beyond the anger (Score:1)
Read beyond the anger. He does have something important to say hidden deep within.
The Point? (Score:1)
I talked a lot already in this publication and I also talked about a lot. I din't finish every subject I started. Some I didn't finish because they simply aren't worth finishing but most I didn't finish because they're simply meant to open more interesting subject, lay down the path of a fantastic publication rather than the path of a good one with positive reactions but without the desired effect.
Unfortunately, without finishing subjects with at least a pertinent question, there is no discussion, much less a fantastic publication. Little that was mentioned was examined deeply enough for me to even ask myself any interesting questions.
I agree with the evident general thesis that we should handle conflict gracefully. We can learn much more in this fashion. But when the miriad of subjects presented are merely glossed over without insight or thought-provoking examination, both conflict and grace are pointless.
No, the presentation did stink. (Score:1)
There is a massive difference between a simple document laid out in a structured manner and this piece.
The presentation *did* "suck" -- the paragraphs are sometimes seperated by double
tags, and sometimes by single tags. His headers are font tags with varying size paramaters, with no rhyme nor reason behind the size selection.
I don't require fancy CSS or layering to call a web site an attractive work; default tags and
work wonders to format an essay. But this was not well paragraphed, sectioned or laid out.
When I read comments on Slashdot, I don't expect correct spelling or grammar. I hope for an effort, and a thought out response. But when you have the time to prepare a work for publication, you are expected to put the effort into presentation and proper english. Broken grammar due to ESL is acceptable. Broken grammar on a published work due to laziness is another matter entirely.
Everybody else has said how bad the content was, so I won't add but a small "yup, it sure was a stinker". It was a viewpoint, yes, but a fairly muddled and non-thought provoking one.
--
Evan "JW" E.
It's good to write (Score:1)
I'm looking forward to reading more from you, because I think you can do much better when you get some practice.
Editor's Nightmare (Score:1)
Until today I've written three essays related to the free software community. My first was a nightmare, the second is the one that was acctually posted on slashdot and it's a little better. The third one I'm working on now is much better than either of the earlier ramblings.
Life == Learning.
Editor's Nightmare (Score:1)
from Rowan (My password's on my friend's HD) (Score:1)
Editor's Nightmare (Score:1)
Lisa
jizz-encrusted panties??? (Score:1)
Editor's Nightmare (Score:3)
Thingy would not have been the term I would have used if I wrote an piece like this. It seems to me that a lot of people are jumping on the 'write an editorial and get it posted on slashdot' band wagon. This can be a Good Thing, if only the same thing wasn't being said over and over.
This is my favorite line: :)
"My vision allows me to see a glimpse of what computers will be like in the long term and that glimpse makes me even more sick of the old." I wish I had that super power, too
At least a spell checker? (Score:1)
However, unlike Richard Thieme, it was quite obvious that Rowan is trying to say something, and I have some clue about what it is.
Jim
The language excuse (Score:1)
Finally... (Score:1)
from Rowan (My password's on my friend's HD) (Score:1)
Rule #1) *Always* have someone *else* proofread it, and find someone that has no problems telling you off in person!
from Rowan (My password's on my friend's HD) (Score:1)
the end of this article.
One of the widely-held rules of good writing: revise, revise, revise. It's natural to become fatigued in the middle of writing, but as long as you aren't pushing a deadline, you can just take a break. Come back fresh and turn it into something you can be proud to attach your name to. Read it out loud to check for clunky-sounding parts. Have a friend read it and then tell you what they thought you wrote - might not be what you intended to say. Read some good writing so that you have an idea of what your goal should be. If you do these things, then you can expect people to focus more on your ideas than on your presentation.
This "essay" should have been moderated. (Score:2)
This reads like some wordy, rambling and largely non-sensical post that would have been quickly moderated below my threshold.
What is this stuff doing getting posted on
This has got to be an all-time low.
What on earth?.... (Score:1)
With your "Open Source Thingy" book, I have some advice. Don't quit your day job just yet. Keep at it and practicing.
Don't tell us what you've been doing until you've made your point and want to back it up with experiences. Don't apologise for your point of view or try and say who you are targeting. Say what you've got to say.
What was that thing Mark Twain(?) said, I wrote you a long letter because I didn't have time to write a short one?
Lots of German Grammer (Score:1)
may you have better luck with the spell checker. it's spelled GRAMMAR.
sorry...that's just one of my pet peeves
*Snicker snicker giggle* (Score:1)
Sad, when I saw your handle Thinker, I figured your comment might actually be something clever. I am a believer in constructive criticism however, so I'll point out that I really enjoyed your creative use of boldface - that was quite good! You need to work on the anger management though; consider looking into professional counselling.
The editorial (Score:1)
I can't help but wish he'd been sick of writing at the beginning of this article...
Oh, please... (Score:1)
> using every vernacular profanity in the American
> lexicon.
Let me quote you from your high-scoring comment insecure, teen-age egotists (Score:1)
on Fri March 12, 13:49 EDT
>Humour.
>
>I guess you cannot see it through all the piss.
>
>Nobody who understands free software gives two
>shits about Bill Gates or Microsoft.
Who needs GUIDs when stupidity and hypocrisy leave a more obvious trail?
Why are you trying to impress me? (Score:1)
Don't flatter yourself.
> Was Daddy absent or unattentive?
What the hell? Are you drunk?
> I know how that is.
That's quite obvious.
"a 14 inch screen"? (Score:1)
More comments (Score:1)
Some comments to your rant:
The processors are backward compatible, not because of the OS, but because of APPLICATIONS. Your applications are all architecture specific, and you will never get millions of users to chuck their apps just to try your funky new microprocessor. Also, the Pentium II (or K6-2) is not a simple and faster x86 with MMX "slapped" on it. I work in Intel (though this post is my opinion, not theirs) and I am awed at the pace that we've made progress through just these few years. Despite many problems, the many, many engineers and scientists in academia and industry have managed to keep semiconductor technology following Moore's law, which is no easy feat.
Now, on to your comment on why people still use Windows instead of Linux. It may be because of the GUI or Hardware support like you mentioned, or lack of ease of use, but I think that the main reason is market inertia. Frankly, windows and unix are both difficult to use, in their own way. Both windows and linux can be difficult to install when your system has unsupported hardware. THE DIFFERENCE IS PEOPLE ARE MORE USED TO WINDOWS, and don't want to RELEARN a new OS. Linux is gaining popularity at an unbelievable rate, and I, as a Linux user and not a developer, am grateful that development is moving so quickly.
Lastly, a word about ranting. While it is generally acceptable to rant (and I do it in my spare time as well), you generally do not post rantings to forums, since this increases the signal-to-noise ratio. Posts to
Thanks,
Andrew
Native speaker or not, good writing counts... (Score:1)
Now I think his essay was worth the read once you got past the spelling errors, but for the next one, he really should find someone to edit it for him. Besides, not only will it be easier to read but it'll improve his writing skills. Everybody wins.
This is a /. screw up (or CmdrTaco) (Score:1)